Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe.

[franksterr]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Do you oppose Mugabe because he is black?</span>
No.</div></div>

Then why do you oppose him, because he is giving back the Land to the poor black landless peasnts???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-style: italic">Events so far shows where his plans are working</span>.
What is his plan?</div></div>


To return the Land and the Wealth of the Nation to the people.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Do you believe your own words? You suggest Zimbabwe prospers?</div></div>

YES....dont be fooled by white racist propagandist and their black hangers on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I want a sample of your drug.</div></div>

Check out your local weedman and ask for Indica.....if you can handle it

[johnnycakes]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

&quot;To return the Land and the Wealth of the Nation to the people.&quot;


Franksterr,

The reality is that Zimbabwe is a CAPITALIST country.
Not only that it is a capitalist country with a corrupt government.

Your idea of returning the land and wealth of the country to the people is the people at the top taking 40% of the best land for themselves.

I don't know many people who would agree that this is reform that will do much to change things for the masses of poor in Zimbabwe.

You sound a lot like the people who backed Obama because he promised to do so much and then when he turned out to be the same as all HIS predecessors and other capitalist rulers, they stuck with him for no other reason than not wishing to admit how wrong they were in putting their faith and confidence in just another kleptocrat (thief holding office).

[franksterr]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

johnnycakes

&quot;To return the Land and the Wealth of the Nation to the people.&quot;


Franksterr,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reality is that Zimbabwe is a CAPITALIST country.</div></div>
YES....so it is stupid to expect a communist revolution.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not only that it is a capitalist country with a corrupt government. </div></div>
The Government is not corrupt, but corruption does exist within the government, as it does in nearly ever government.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your idea of returning the land and wealth of the country to the people is the people at the top taking 40% of the best land for themselves.</div></div>

Should the people at the top get the worst land?

How the land is divide is a matter for the people and government of Zimbabwe to decide...which is usually based on ability to use and or develop.
What is important is that close to a million individual now have access to the land when before they did not.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know many people who would agree that this is reform that will do much to change things for the masses of poor in Zimbabwe.</div></div>
The fruits of the reform is already in full bloom.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You sound a lot like the people who backed Obama because he promised to do so much and then when he turned out to be the same as all HIS predecessors and other capitalist rulers, they stuck with him for no other reason than not wishing to admit how wrong they were in putting their faith and confidence in just another kleptocrat (thief holding office). </div></div>

First off Mugabe promised to get the land and give it back the people and he has done it - no empty promise there.
You have a problem with the share Mugabe and his family and comrades got, too bad, they are Zimbabweans too and are as deserving of land as every other qualified Zimbabwean, and who do you propose should have gotten those lands? - there will be a Land Audit.

And you sound like another communist promising a never before seen utopia......somewhere over the rainbow

[johnnycakes]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

&quot;YES....so it is stupid to expect a communist revolution.&quot;

Franksterr,

I never said that I expected a COMMUNIST revolution in Zimbabwe. It is you who made that extrapolation from what I said and meant.

In the first place, you do not understand what communism is or you never would have made that statement.

What I said was that Zimbawe is a capitalist country which means that the money and power will be directed upwards to the already rich and powerful as exemplified by the 40% land grab by those with the money and power.

Were it a DEMOCRACY it would be reversed.
I never mentioned a meaningful revolution


&quot;Should the people at the top get the worst land?
How the land is divide(d) is a matter for the people and government of Zimbabwe to decide...which is usually based on ability to use and or develop.
What is important is that close to a million individual now have access to the land when before they did not.&quot;


The question you didn't ask is: Should the people at the top, already wealthy, already in possession of very good properties get the best of the newly apportioned lands or those who are poor and landless?

How the land WAS divided was never decided by the people as you would have the brainless believe but by the people who took that best 40% for themselves, those with the power and wealth .

Those decisions were not made based on anything democratic or that 40% would never have gone to the already rich.

[franksterr]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YES....so it is stupid to expect a communist revolution.&quot;

Franksterr,

I never said that I expected a COMMUNIST revolution in Zimbabwe. It is you who made that extrapolation from what I said and meant.</div></div>

Only trying to move ahead to some new ground, that has not already been covered.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the first place, you do not understand what communism is or you never would have made that statement. </div></div>
Only YOU understand YOUR communist revolution.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I said was that Zimbawe is a capitalist country which means that the money and power will be directed upwards to the already rich and powerful as exemplified by the 40% land grab by those with the money and power.</div></div>

Granted For argument sake…..thought it is a great exaggeration – another case of making Mountains out of Moles hills and missing the forest for the trees.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were it a DEMOCRACY it would be reversed.
I never mentioned a meaningful revolution</div></div>

DEMOCRACY is overrated.

Maybe you are overlooking the fact that the “poor” got land as well!!!!

So by reverse what do you mean?




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Should the people at the top get the worst land?
How the land is divide(d) is a matter for the people and government of Zimbabwe to decide...which is usually based on ability to use and or develop.
What is important is that close to a million individual now have access to the land when before they did not.&quot;


The question you didn't ask is: Should the people at the top, already wealthy, already in possession of very good properties get the best of the newly apportioned lands or those who are poor and landless?</div></div>

Rich and poor got land, so long as they were qualified and Zimbabweans thay are entitled.
The poor where not denied land, they are still land left that has not been distributed as there is none qualified to develop and use it who have come forward.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How the land WAS divided was never decided by the people as you would have the brainless believe but by the people who took that best 40% for themselves, those with the power and wealth .</div></div>
If they were not of the people who were they if not Zimbabweans??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those decisions were not made based on anything democratic or that 40% would never have gone to the already rich.</div></div>

Who would you have get those lands, if not the people who the people of Zimbabwe decide should have it????

Your use of the terms “RICH” , “BEST LANDS” and “40%” are political code words used by the white racist in an attempt to inflame and throw into chaos a successful Land Revolution. Be careful how you buy into these terms.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

&quot;.Only YOU understand YOUR communist revolution.&quot;

Franksterr,

This may be true of most people who simply lack an understanding of what communism is, what socialism is, what statism is, what democracy is
The information that could explain these things is readily available to those who are interested in being knowledgeable and therefore capable of carrying on an intelligent discussion in which these philosophies are being discussed.

You like many, lack the education on these matters to do so and worse , refuse to educate yourself before using the terms and in doing so, completely misstate what they mean.





&quot;DEMOCRACY is overrated&quot;


Thank you.
That, I suppose, is as close as you have come to admitting that you are a totalitarian
and why you support the sort of totalitarian rule in use in Zimbabwe and the totalitarian economic system wherein the people have no control and no say in what is done to them.

You prefer rule from the top down because according to you, it works.

In this you are in the ranks of those who supported the governments of Stalin, Hitler, the Greek junta, Franco, Mussolini, Botha, the United States etc.

The apologists for the Greek junta used to boast that the military dictatorship made the trains run on time as their big accomplishment while they tortured and murdered thousands.

How many Zimbabweans are now living outside the country because of conditions under Mugabe's rule? (At least 10%?)
Don't they know that they can have a piece of land and live good lives if they return?

[Archie68]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

You need to smoke more of your indica. Save some for me. Reality and I do not get along.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

&quot;Reality and I do not get along.&quot;

Suspicions confirmed

[franksterr]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;.Only YOU understand YOUR communist revolution.&quot;

Franksterr,

This may be true of most people who simply lack an understanding of what communism is, what socialism is, what statism is, what democracy is
The information that could explain these things is readily available to those who are interested in being knowledgeable and therefore capable of carrying on an intelligent discussion in which these philosophies are being discussed.

You like many, lack the education on these matters to do so and worse , refuse to educate yourself before using the terms and in doing so, completely misstate what they mean.</div></div>

Was the USSR a communist state?
Can you name an actual communist state?





<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;DEMOCRACY is overrated&quot;


Thank you.
That, I suppose, is as close as you have come to admitting that you are a totalitarian
and why you support the sort of totalitarian rule in use in Zimbabwe and the totalitarian economic system wherein the people have no control and no say in what is done to them.</div></div>

Now you are putting words in my mouth….democracy never guaranteed anyone liberty or equal access to resources.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You prefer rule from the top down because according to you, it works.</div></div>
How typical mixing the truths with out and out lies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this you are in the ranks of those who supported the governments of Stalin, Hitler, the Greek junta, Franco, Mussolini, Botha, the United States etc.

The apologists for the Greek junta used to boast that the military dictatorship made the trains run on time as their big accomplishment while they tortured and murdered thousands.</div></div>

You created a straw man out of lies then proceed to attacked it as if I said any such thing…you just cant help lying can you?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many Zimbabweans are now living outside the country because of conditions under Mugabe's rule? (At least 10%?)
Don't they know that they can have a piece of land and live good lives if they return?</div></div>

I am sure more Cubans are living in Miami don’t they know that Cuba is a paradise on earth where the people own all the land????

[johnnycakes]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

&quot;Was the USSR a communist state?
Can you name an actual communist state?&quot;


Several points here.

Only numerous occasions I have explained at length:
1) what communism is and is not..
2) why the Soviet Union was not only not communist but also not socialist in the classic sense of socialism.
3) that communism has never existed and why.

Since you are repeating questions that I have answered on several occasions and have done what those on the right always do and that is ignore the truth and the facts, it makes little sense to discuss much with you.


&quot;democracy never guaranteed anyone liberty or equal access to resources.&quot;


Define democracy and point out a democratic state that existed in the 20th century or that exists in the 21st.

[Archie68]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

Fascist, you want Cuban trade with a country you claimed economically raped Cuba. I may be insane, you are stupid. You openly advocate what you oppose. You are retarded. Are you a member of the tea party?

[Archie68]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

Franksterr, read this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14331167

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The move helped to stop the economic free-fall in Zimbabwe, where at one stage a Z$100 trillion note was issued.</div></div>

We need copper pennies? A 100 TRILLION note?

Are these lies? The people prosper? Dred, you has lost touch.

[franksterr]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

&quot;Was the USSR a communist state?
Can you name an actual communist state?&quot;


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Several points here.

Only numerous occasions I have explained at length:
1) what communism is and is not..
2) why the <span style="color: #CC0000">Soviet Union was not only not communist but also not socialist in the classic sense of socialism.</span>
3) that <span style="font-weight: bold">communism has never existed</span> and why.</div></div>

Exactly

By classic you mean theoretical????



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you are repeating questions that I have answered on several occasions and have done what those on the right always do and that is ignore the truth and the facts, it makes little sense to discuss much with you. </div></div>

You force this redundant question, with you one must always start with the basics or you end up in a long diatribe going where I started.




<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;democracy never guaranteed anyone liberty or equal access to resources.&quot;</span>

Yeah well have it?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define democracy and point out a democratic state that existed in the 20th century or that exists in the 21st.</div></div>

Look there are many forms of democracy, maybe as many as claim to be a democracy.
Your definition of socialism and communism makes them none existent, as will your definition of democracy make it either historical or theoretical….in other words non-existant.

My definition of democracy is simple, a country in which there is freedom of movement, protest, to gather, of press, of speech, to elect their own representative and or government from among themselves for themselves.

As such a deem many countries democracies from Zimbabwe to the US.

[franksterr]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Archie68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Franksterr, read this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14331167

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The move helped to stop the economic free-fall in Zimbabwe, where at one stage a Z$100 trillion note was issued.</div></div>

We need copper pennies? A 100 TRILLION note?

Are these lies? The people prosper? Dred, you has lost touch. </div></div>

May well be true.

Look Zimbabwe is going up against the most powerful countries in the World, they have way of making a small economy like Zimbabwe's scream and its people suffer usually by means of sanctions or covert destabilizing actions.
Nevertheless good news abound as well

<span style="font-style: italic">Zimbabwe’s new farmers are growing massive amounts of tobacco, mainly on formerly white-owned farms, and some of them are earning more than they ever dreamed possible. Tens of thousands of new farmers are working land seized from whites by President Robert Mugabe since 2000.

Peter Garaziwa, who is 55, was a potato farmer in eastern Zimbabwe’s mountains until 2004 when he was given white-owned land in a prime tobacco area south of his traditional home.

This year he says he will have produced 32 bales of Virginia tobacco produced on a farm he says is called Gazala. He does not know what happened to the white farmer, but says he uses barns built by the former owner to cure his tobacco.

Garaziwa said next year he hopes to produce even more. He was in Harare at the Boka Tobacco auction floors selling his first batch of bales.

&quot;At the moment I have got, maximum, seven bales, left, maximum, 25,&quot; said Garaziwa. &quot;Tobacco farming, this is the second year. Before that I was just studying how to grow this tobacco, so I am now dealing with tobacco and I take tobacco as my project.’

Garaziwa and his wife said they are satisfied with the prices for their tobacco on the large auction floor south of Harare.

Industry specialists estimate there are 47,000 small scale tobacco farmers, most of whom came into the industry in the past two years. In 2004 there were about 4,000 small-scale black farmers.</span>
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/afri...-122517789.html

Where the problem lies for the future is what the neo colonialist are doing with the seeds and forcing a cash crop mentality which is s set up for food insecurity....using food as a weapon to achieve regime change is cruel.

[Archie68]

Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth in Zimbabwe

You win. Zimbabwe is doing well. Good night and walk good.