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Re: Mugabe's Land reform driving economic growth i
F:
So if it says any about Cuba that’s does not fit your ideas….its lies and unobjective?
J:
I've been a student of the Cuban revolution for forty years and in that time have read everything I could about it. Of necessity that included all the anti-Cuban stuff in the national media but also a great many anti-Cuban websites such as the one you have referenced. I know some of them well enough to just see the URL to know exactly what I will find if I go there.
It can be no secret to you that the United States houses most of the old Batista crowd in Florida and that they are rabidly anti-revolutionary and their websites reflect that, sometimes in unintentionally ridiculous statements.
The government itself, through then State Department also puts out what is anti-socialist propaganda and which is quite transparent BUT only to those who know more than the average (uninformed/disinformed) American.
In order to see through the BS, you have to have ALL or a lot of the information on a given topic and in a historical setting in order to be able to differentiate between fact and fiction.
So far, all you have referenced is the anti-Cuban websites and your questions often reflect a lack of the facts needed to come to a rational conclusion about things Cuban.
Had you read Fidel's speeches (there are several books of them) or August's books or clearly understood U.S. 20th/21st century foreign policy, we would not be having this discussion.
.
F:
Please stop doing gymnastics, Cuba is ruled by a political Party and in Cuba there is only One political party for the past 40 yrs.
J:
This is what I mean about the difficulty of trying to explain the unique Cuban economic/electoral system . You would have to read quite a bit of rather dry stuff to understand what the PCC is and what its function is. It is nothing like ZANU or the Democrats. Suffice to say that the PCC does not run political campaigns.
Does that sound like any kind of political party that you know of?
And that is just one difference. You need to read up on the PCC function. Neither time nor inclination enable me to do it for you. Takes too long at the keyboard.
F:
Sure you can say what you want, is what happens after you say what you want that’s important.
Not everyone who dissents is on the US payroll.
J: Look at it this way. If, in 1825 someone in the U.S were to come out publicly and say that the U.S. should revert to the British rule, how popular do you think that person would be in his neighborhood and country?
If someone in Zimbabwe were to say that white colonial rule would be much better than independence , how would the average Zimbabwean react to that person?
And the fact is that while not all of the people who gripe publicly in Cuba are on the U.S payroll, most of the ones in prison were and money continues to come in from the U.S with the purpose of undermining the Cuban revolution.
There are specific laws in Cuba regarding how far you can go in speaking against the Revolution just as there are similar laws in every country. Every Cuban who breaks these laws knows about them and cannot be shocked about getting arrested for fomenting a counter revolution. While I am not saying it is a deliberate plan I would not be surprised at all if these "dissenters on the payroll" are paid to go to jail so that the United States can then raise a hue and cry about "political prisoners" and thereby discredit the revolution. It is at least feasible.
.
Quote:
F:
They have already tried to chase him out for land reform and failed.
J: Well, if he tries redistributing the wealth that is in the hands of the present elite
(which I doubt he would consider doing, no one else has ever done it in Sub-Saharan Africa) it would be quite a different story. IMO
.
F:
What ever the people of Zimbabwe decides to do that works is fine by me be it communism, socialism or capitalism.
Without freedom of travel, it is difficult to know whats actually happening in Cuba.
J:
The people of Zimbabwe are not free to decide on which economic system they will have. It would take a violent revolution to get rid of capitalism and the United States would probably not allow it. You are stuck with what the United States wants which is capitalism and as history shows, it cannot be reformed to the point that it can take care of the needs of ALL the people as socialism has done in Cuba
.It is true that freedom of travel restricts our ability to know what's going on in Cuba because the United States prevents its citizens from going to Cuba ( theonly country in the world where U.S citizens cannot legally go) exactly so that we, the people . the voters cannot see what is going on in Cuba and possibly demand an end to the U.S. war against the people of Cuba.
F:
When and where capitalism works the nation ceases to be poor, so that question is moot.
They are many countries that capitalism is working in, with varying degree of success
J;
Okay Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland a few more of the highly advanced technological rich countries through very high taxation have created humane societies.
That fact has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism in the Third World because it not only does not work in those countries but cannot due to debt, lack of natural and human resources, general poverty, corruption.
.
F:
Personally socialism is best, but in the final analysis it comes down to the people running the system.
J:
And the people running the system are the people with the money and power who are not of a mind to give up much of it to the average person.
The multi-party electoral system of which you are a fan guarantees that only those who support the party's position which almost always is the status quo are nominated by the party and those are the only people you get to vote for.
Party politics and big money corrupt the leadership in most capitalist countries to ensure that capitalism and privilege are preserved.
See it.
F:
ONLY You would expect a pro-Castro website to tell the painful truth.
J:
If you would like to think that Fidel is just another dictator sitting on bags of stolen money and living like a king, that's your right.
Personally I have never seen or heard any evidence of this and given that Fidel gave up his family estate to landless Cubans right after the revolution, it would seem to run counter to that spirit were he now to acquire wealth and the trappings of the rulers in all other countries.
As said, he lives in a modest but nice apartment/house,
Try to find someone who has served as leader for a long time who lives in a more simple fashion than Fidel
F:
Yes if he so choose, of course there are other more palatable methods that he may
employ.
J: what would he do with the money given the simple life style he has and wouldn't any ostentatious display of personal wealth be picked up on and spread across the U.S. media overnight in big letters??
F:
I have read the experts on both sides, including yourself.
None has satisfied my doubts.
J:
How can you make that claim when you have shown that you do not have a basic understanding of either Poder Popular or Cuba's socialist economy or the function of the PCC which I have had to explain here at great length?
F: ADMIRES
The educational system, Cuba’s role in Africa struggle, Cuba ability to survive against the US will, willingness to give aid.
J: Fair enough . What about health care , the training of foreign doctors to serve the poor in their home countries for free, the lack of crime, drugs, violence, gangs ?l
F:
Yes I question their democracy
I have already quoted an instance of electoral corruption, in which dissenters and all who nominate them stand to face serious reprisals.
J:
Excuse me, but as explained at the nomination meetings under Poder Popular anyone can nominate anyone and all that is needed for that person dissident or not to become a candidate is for someone, anyone to second that nomination.
I said nothing about serious reprisals because there are none. It is a completely democratic process.
As already explained, the revolution is very popular in Cuba. Dissenters, those opposed to the socialist system are about as popular in Cuba as we communists are here in the United States where we represent about 3% of the population.
If we had Poder Popular in the United States and I, a known communist, wanted to become the representative for my neighborhood and completely change what exists, just how could I get anyone to nominate me?
Even if I could get nominated and seconded, how many people in my district would want me, an enemy of the political and economic systems here, as their representative?
The situation for your so-called dissidents is no different in Cuba. They are sometimes tolerated but not listened to by many Cubans who as said, are dedicated to THEIR revolution.
F:
If there is prostitution, there is child prostitution it goes without saying.
J:
I have only seen your claim that this is so. It runs contrary to the spirit of the revolution wherein children are revered as the future of Cuba.
How would people running child prostitution in Cuba evade 1) the police 2) the block committees, 3) the school authorities and 4) the family doctors for these children ?
F:
Prison sentences were increased for the corruption of minors in an effort to stop the activities of sex offenders and pedophiles. The penalty for pedophilia was set at fifteen to thirty years.
J: Again, nothing here on child prostitution in Cuba.
I'll do an extensive Goggle search on it after posting this and will get back if I find info from a valid source that contradicts me.
Quote:
Freedom to not starve to death and freedom not to die from preventable or curable disease are extremely important too, without them something like 12 million people die in sub-Saharan Africa EVERY goddammed year.
Where is your sense of perspective.
F:Those deaths and diseases in Africa is a result of poverty which is a result of racism
J: We disagree on the primary cause .
F:
One does not negate the other…
Sure it is a good and great thing that starvation and disease are low in Cuba….
Chickens and cows meant for slaughter are well fed and provided with the best health care…..the only thing denied them is the ability to leave the farm – they are imprisoned or penned. Back in colonial days slaves where fed quartered and provided with heath care, the only thing denied them was the ability to leave on their own.
J: Okay now we're down to Cubans being regarded as prisoners in a gulag.
If that's how you think, then we definitely have differing views on what the Cuban revolution is and what it has done for the Cuban people.
F:
Thru-out the 80’s Zimbabwe was known as the breadbasket of Africa, until the West want to impoverish using the IMF forced policies on them that destroyed their reserves and local market.
J:
What colonialism and neo-colonialism has done to African nations is significant and a major factor in today's problems but as long as there is corrupt party electoral systems and the totally corrupting force of capitalism riding herd on that government Zimbabwe will never see serious change. I know you hope for better but history should adequately show you the folly of that thinking.
Obama was supposed to be President Change too.
F:
Africa and Africans will not fall for the neo-colonial policies of the west, like happen in the sixties and Mugabe victories is signaling that change. Mugabe’s success is a regional effort.
J: Africans have fallen for multi-party electoral systems that are undemocratic and corrupt.
Africans have adopted capitalism whole hog.
You let me know when either of those things are thrown out and I'll start thinking that Robert Mugabe is serious.
F;
Dictators have always been able to handle crime better than democracies, during Mussolini reign the mafia and crime was at an all time low in Italy.
J:
Now you're saying that Cuba is a dictatorship?.
Now you are totally ignoring the democracy of Poder Popular after having said that you would like the most democratic feature of it which is throwing political parties out of the nomination process and having the voters themselves choose their own candidates.
The low crime rate in Cuba is due to many factors that come with a socialist economy and a democratic government. Cuba is not a police state much as those who oppose the revolution would have us think.
You cannot be both for capitalism and for the poor.
Do I have to explain why?
F:
Please do.
J:
Under capitalism, much of the wealth of a country is concentrated at the top in big corporations, a small percentage of very wealthy people and in poor countries this results in poverty rates that can top 80% in the poorest countries and only the richest countries can get poverty levels down to 10%. In the U.S the poverty rate is about 25% due to the great disparity in personal wealth and the high living costs, high unemployment, racism etc.
Capitalism is based on worship of money.
When money has top priority the poor die by the millions.
This is not theory.
This is the reality that evidences itself most disastrously in sub_Saharan Africa.
I would have thought you'd have notice by now.
But then you think it's all based on racism so let me ask you, were racism to vanish tomorrow would poverty disappear in Africa.?
In the U.S while a disproportionate number of blacks are poor due to racism, the numbers of white poor far outnumber them by 8 times or so.
If there were no racism there would still be the same number of poor people because it is entirely related to the inequities inherent in capitalism .
Not to my knowledge. There is a lot of free lancing by individuals but if you have an understanding of economics you would understand that this is not what defines capitalism. They work independently of the government and pay taxes on what they make. That is not capitalism.
F:
How is that not capitalism?
J:
I cannot explain Economics 101 here but suffice to say that since independent workers do not exploit other people they are not practicing capitalism.
You'd need a deeper background on what comprises capitalism, socialism and communism to fully understand this.
F:
What do you understand about the “special period”
J: When the Soviet Union collapsed and aid to Cuba was ended the Cubans had to resort to some desperate measures to hold things together. What are you asking specifically?
J:
Cuban democratic socialism has shown it works
F:
Of course it did when they were getting 6 billion dollars a yr from mother Russia.
The yrs fallowing Russia collapse Castro instituted capitalistic changes.
J:
Cuban socialism is still here and doing fine some 20 years after losing Soviet aid.
They survived and adapted to the new conditions.
The strict socialist economy is still a strict socialist economy.
What is your point?
F:
Where do you get your info….from pro-Castro media?
J:
As explained, I have been a student of the Cuban revolution and U.S. foreign policy which are directly related for about 40 years. I read everything I see about Cuba and it is a big part of what I do to take in information from those who oppose the Revolution and check it out for accuracy by going to multiple sources for corroboration or denial .
After 40 years of this whatever is propaganda is quickly and easily discerned as much of what is talked about is history that I've already studied in depth.
While true that I am a big supporter of the Cuban revolution, it is only because I have the confidence in the reliability of my 40 years of information from following the Cuban revolution.
F:
If you cannot see the difference between my question and a right wing anti-Castro protagonist then maybe you are seeing enemies where none exist.
You will turn out to vote if your freedom or If your next meal depends on it you will.
J:
Are you now saying that the Cuban people are forced to vote?
There's a thought not very friendly to the reality of the Cuban revolution.
Since you know next-to-nothing about the Cuban electoral system I'll take the time to explain the illogic of that statement.
In Cuban elections as everywhere, the voter ids given a secret ballot to mark and put into voting boxes guarded by....the Cuban equivalent of Boy Scouts.
Anyone who wants to can write in anything they want or deface the ballot and put it in the box and no one is there to check his or her vote out.
So even if someone were watching to see who votes and who doesn't, they would be unable to see how they voted or if they left their ballot blank or wrote "Raul sucks" on it. In the 1997-98 elections some 3% of the ballots were defaced by voters.
All this is in the book by Arnold August
F:
Never denied that Cuba and America is at War(cold)
J:
Here you're saying that the U.S. war against Cuba IS a cold war or was part of the old cold war.
During the past 50 years the U.S has introduced Dengue Fever, tobacco disease, swine disease, to Cuba, bombed hotels in Havana, invaded at the Bay of Pig/Playa Giron and economically blockaded the island.
is that your idea of cold war tactics?
The war is why certain rights have had to be restricted in Cuba as rights often are in countries under threat.
Have you been through a airport search in the United States lately?
Let's wrap this up.
Cuban democratic socialism works to the satisfaction of the Cuban people.
They think it works.
Capitalism and multi-party politics are what is ruining the Third World and it cannot be reformed to the point that it can do anywhere near what the Cuban revolution has done for all Cubans. The fact that such systems have never been reformed successfully to any great degree is all the proof you should need to understand this.
I know you disagree with me now but I am sure that in another 20 years or so of disappointment you'll see what I see.
F:
So if it says any about Cuba that’s does not fit your ideas….its lies and unobjective?
J:
I've been a student of the Cuban revolution for forty years and in that time have read everything I could about it. Of necessity that included all the anti-Cuban stuff in the national media but also a great many anti-Cuban websites such as the one you have referenced. I know some of them well enough to just see the URL to know exactly what I will find if I go there.
It can be no secret to you that the United States houses most of the old Batista crowd in Florida and that they are rabidly anti-revolutionary and their websites reflect that, sometimes in unintentionally ridiculous statements.
The government itself, through then State Department also puts out what is anti-socialist propaganda and which is quite transparent BUT only to those who know more than the average (uninformed/disinformed) American.
In order to see through the BS, you have to have ALL or a lot of the information on a given topic and in a historical setting in order to be able to differentiate between fact and fiction.
So far, all you have referenced is the anti-Cuban websites and your questions often reflect a lack of the facts needed to come to a rational conclusion about things Cuban.
Had you read Fidel's speeches (there are several books of them) or August's books or clearly understood U.S. 20th/21st century foreign policy, we would not be having this discussion.
.
F:
Please stop doing gymnastics, Cuba is ruled by a political Party and in Cuba there is only One political party for the past 40 yrs.
J:
This is what I mean about the difficulty of trying to explain the unique Cuban economic/electoral system . You would have to read quite a bit of rather dry stuff to understand what the PCC is and what its function is. It is nothing like ZANU or the Democrats. Suffice to say that the PCC does not run political campaigns.
Does that sound like any kind of political party that you know of?
And that is just one difference. You need to read up on the PCC function. Neither time nor inclination enable me to do it for you. Takes too long at the keyboard.
F:
Sure you can say what you want, is what happens after you say what you want that’s important.
Not everyone who dissents is on the US payroll.
J: Look at it this way. If, in 1825 someone in the U.S were to come out publicly and say that the U.S. should revert to the British rule, how popular do you think that person would be in his neighborhood and country?
If someone in Zimbabwe were to say that white colonial rule would be much better than independence , how would the average Zimbabwean react to that person?
And the fact is that while not all of the people who gripe publicly in Cuba are on the U.S payroll, most of the ones in prison were and money continues to come in from the U.S with the purpose of undermining the Cuban revolution.
There are specific laws in Cuba regarding how far you can go in speaking against the Revolution just as there are similar laws in every country. Every Cuban who breaks these laws knows about them and cannot be shocked about getting arrested for fomenting a counter revolution. While I am not saying it is a deliberate plan I would not be surprised at all if these "dissenters on the payroll" are paid to go to jail so that the United States can then raise a hue and cry about "political prisoners" and thereby discredit the revolution. It is at least feasible.
.
Quote:
F:
They have already tried to chase him out for land reform and failed.
J: Well, if he tries redistributing the wealth that is in the hands of the present elite
(which I doubt he would consider doing, no one else has ever done it in Sub-Saharan Africa) it would be quite a different story. IMO
.
F:
What ever the people of Zimbabwe decides to do that works is fine by me be it communism, socialism or capitalism.
Without freedom of travel, it is difficult to know whats actually happening in Cuba.
J:
The people of Zimbabwe are not free to decide on which economic system they will have. It would take a violent revolution to get rid of capitalism and the United States would probably not allow it. You are stuck with what the United States wants which is capitalism and as history shows, it cannot be reformed to the point that it can take care of the needs of ALL the people as socialism has done in Cuba
.It is true that freedom of travel restricts our ability to know what's going on in Cuba because the United States prevents its citizens from going to Cuba ( theonly country in the world where U.S citizens cannot legally go) exactly so that we, the people . the voters cannot see what is going on in Cuba and possibly demand an end to the U.S. war against the people of Cuba.
F:
When and where capitalism works the nation ceases to be poor, so that question is moot.
They are many countries that capitalism is working in, with varying degree of success
J;
Okay Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland a few more of the highly advanced technological rich countries through very high taxation have created humane societies.
That fact has absolutely nothing to do with capitalism in the Third World because it not only does not work in those countries but cannot due to debt, lack of natural and human resources, general poverty, corruption.
.
F:
Personally socialism is best, but in the final analysis it comes down to the people running the system.
J:
And the people running the system are the people with the money and power who are not of a mind to give up much of it to the average person.
The multi-party electoral system of which you are a fan guarantees that only those who support the party's position which almost always is the status quo are nominated by the party and those are the only people you get to vote for.
Party politics and big money corrupt the leadership in most capitalist countries to ensure that capitalism and privilege are preserved.
See it.
F:
ONLY You would expect a pro-Castro website to tell the painful truth.
J:
If you would like to think that Fidel is just another dictator sitting on bags of stolen money and living like a king, that's your right.
Personally I have never seen or heard any evidence of this and given that Fidel gave up his family estate to landless Cubans right after the revolution, it would seem to run counter to that spirit were he now to acquire wealth and the trappings of the rulers in all other countries.
As said, he lives in a modest but nice apartment/house,
Try to find someone who has served as leader for a long time who lives in a more simple fashion than Fidel
F:
Yes if he so choose, of course there are other more palatable methods that he may
employ.
J: what would he do with the money given the simple life style he has and wouldn't any ostentatious display of personal wealth be picked up on and spread across the U.S. media overnight in big letters??
F:
I have read the experts on both sides, including yourself.
None has satisfied my doubts.
J:
How can you make that claim when you have shown that you do not have a basic understanding of either Poder Popular or Cuba's socialist economy or the function of the PCC which I have had to explain here at great length?
F: ADMIRES
The educational system, Cuba’s role in Africa struggle, Cuba ability to survive against the US will, willingness to give aid.
J: Fair enough . What about health care , the training of foreign doctors to serve the poor in their home countries for free, the lack of crime, drugs, violence, gangs ?l
F:
Yes I question their democracy
I have already quoted an instance of electoral corruption, in which dissenters and all who nominate them stand to face serious reprisals.
J:
Excuse me, but as explained at the nomination meetings under Poder Popular anyone can nominate anyone and all that is needed for that person dissident or not to become a candidate is for someone, anyone to second that nomination.
I said nothing about serious reprisals because there are none. It is a completely democratic process.
As already explained, the revolution is very popular in Cuba. Dissenters, those opposed to the socialist system are about as popular in Cuba as we communists are here in the United States where we represent about 3% of the population.
If we had Poder Popular in the United States and I, a known communist, wanted to become the representative for my neighborhood and completely change what exists, just how could I get anyone to nominate me?
Even if I could get nominated and seconded, how many people in my district would want me, an enemy of the political and economic systems here, as their representative?
The situation for your so-called dissidents is no different in Cuba. They are sometimes tolerated but not listened to by many Cubans who as said, are dedicated to THEIR revolution.
F:
If there is prostitution, there is child prostitution it goes without saying.
J:
I have only seen your claim that this is so. It runs contrary to the spirit of the revolution wherein children are revered as the future of Cuba.
How would people running child prostitution in Cuba evade 1) the police 2) the block committees, 3) the school authorities and 4) the family doctors for these children ?
F:
Prison sentences were increased for the corruption of minors in an effort to stop the activities of sex offenders and pedophiles. The penalty for pedophilia was set at fifteen to thirty years.
J: Again, nothing here on child prostitution in Cuba.
I'll do an extensive Goggle search on it after posting this and will get back if I find info from a valid source that contradicts me.
Quote:
Freedom to not starve to death and freedom not to die from preventable or curable disease are extremely important too, without them something like 12 million people die in sub-Saharan Africa EVERY goddammed year.
Where is your sense of perspective.
F:Those deaths and diseases in Africa is a result of poverty which is a result of racism
J: We disagree on the primary cause .
F:
One does not negate the other…
Sure it is a good and great thing that starvation and disease are low in Cuba….
Chickens and cows meant for slaughter are well fed and provided with the best health care…..the only thing denied them is the ability to leave the farm – they are imprisoned or penned. Back in colonial days slaves where fed quartered and provided with heath care, the only thing denied them was the ability to leave on their own.
J: Okay now we're down to Cubans being regarded as prisoners in a gulag.
If that's how you think, then we definitely have differing views on what the Cuban revolution is and what it has done for the Cuban people.
F:
Thru-out the 80’s Zimbabwe was known as the breadbasket of Africa, until the West want to impoverish using the IMF forced policies on them that destroyed their reserves and local market.
J:
What colonialism and neo-colonialism has done to African nations is significant and a major factor in today's problems but as long as there is corrupt party electoral systems and the totally corrupting force of capitalism riding herd on that government Zimbabwe will never see serious change. I know you hope for better but history should adequately show you the folly of that thinking.
Obama was supposed to be President Change too.
F:
Africa and Africans will not fall for the neo-colonial policies of the west, like happen in the sixties and Mugabe victories is signaling that change. Mugabe’s success is a regional effort.
J: Africans have fallen for multi-party electoral systems that are undemocratic and corrupt.
Africans have adopted capitalism whole hog.
You let me know when either of those things are thrown out and I'll start thinking that Robert Mugabe is serious.
F;
Dictators have always been able to handle crime better than democracies, during Mussolini reign the mafia and crime was at an all time low in Italy.
J:
Now you're saying that Cuba is a dictatorship?.
Now you are totally ignoring the democracy of Poder Popular after having said that you would like the most democratic feature of it which is throwing political parties out of the nomination process and having the voters themselves choose their own candidates.
The low crime rate in Cuba is due to many factors that come with a socialist economy and a democratic government. Cuba is not a police state much as those who oppose the revolution would have us think.
You cannot be both for capitalism and for the poor.
Do I have to explain why?
F:
Please do.
J:
Under capitalism, much of the wealth of a country is concentrated at the top in big corporations, a small percentage of very wealthy people and in poor countries this results in poverty rates that can top 80% in the poorest countries and only the richest countries can get poverty levels down to 10%. In the U.S the poverty rate is about 25% due to the great disparity in personal wealth and the high living costs, high unemployment, racism etc.
Capitalism is based on worship of money.
When money has top priority the poor die by the millions.
This is not theory.
This is the reality that evidences itself most disastrously in sub_Saharan Africa.
I would have thought you'd have notice by now.
But then you think it's all based on racism so let me ask you, were racism to vanish tomorrow would poverty disappear in Africa.?
In the U.S while a disproportionate number of blacks are poor due to racism, the numbers of white poor far outnumber them by 8 times or so.
If there were no racism there would still be the same number of poor people because it is entirely related to the inequities inherent in capitalism .
Not to my knowledge. There is a lot of free lancing by individuals but if you have an understanding of economics you would understand that this is not what defines capitalism. They work independently of the government and pay taxes on what they make. That is not capitalism.
F:
How is that not capitalism?
J:
I cannot explain Economics 101 here but suffice to say that since independent workers do not exploit other people they are not practicing capitalism.
You'd need a deeper background on what comprises capitalism, socialism and communism to fully understand this.
F:
What do you understand about the “special period”
J: When the Soviet Union collapsed and aid to Cuba was ended the Cubans had to resort to some desperate measures to hold things together. What are you asking specifically?
J:
Cuban democratic socialism has shown it works
F:
Of course it did when they were getting 6 billion dollars a yr from mother Russia.
The yrs fallowing Russia collapse Castro instituted capitalistic changes.
J:
Cuban socialism is still here and doing fine some 20 years after losing Soviet aid.
They survived and adapted to the new conditions.
The strict socialist economy is still a strict socialist economy.
What is your point?
F:
Where do you get your info….from pro-Castro media?
J:
As explained, I have been a student of the Cuban revolution and U.S. foreign policy which are directly related for about 40 years. I read everything I see about Cuba and it is a big part of what I do to take in information from those who oppose the Revolution and check it out for accuracy by going to multiple sources for corroboration or denial .
After 40 years of this whatever is propaganda is quickly and easily discerned as much of what is talked about is history that I've already studied in depth.
While true that I am a big supporter of the Cuban revolution, it is only because I have the confidence in the reliability of my 40 years of information from following the Cuban revolution.
F:
If you cannot see the difference between my question and a right wing anti-Castro protagonist then maybe you are seeing enemies where none exist.
You will turn out to vote if your freedom or If your next meal depends on it you will.
J:
Are you now saying that the Cuban people are forced to vote?
There's a thought not very friendly to the reality of the Cuban revolution.
Since you know next-to-nothing about the Cuban electoral system I'll take the time to explain the illogic of that statement.
In Cuban elections as everywhere, the voter ids given a secret ballot to mark and put into voting boxes guarded by....the Cuban equivalent of Boy Scouts.
Anyone who wants to can write in anything they want or deface the ballot and put it in the box and no one is there to check his or her vote out.
So even if someone were watching to see who votes and who doesn't, they would be unable to see how they voted or if they left their ballot blank or wrote "Raul sucks" on it. In the 1997-98 elections some 3% of the ballots were defaced by voters.
All this is in the book by Arnold August
F:
Never denied that Cuba and America is at War(cold)
J:
Here you're saying that the U.S. war against Cuba IS a cold war or was part of the old cold war.
During the past 50 years the U.S has introduced Dengue Fever, tobacco disease, swine disease, to Cuba, bombed hotels in Havana, invaded at the Bay of Pig/Playa Giron and economically blockaded the island.
is that your idea of cold war tactics?
The war is why certain rights have had to be restricted in Cuba as rights often are in countries under threat.
Have you been through a airport search in the United States lately?
Let's wrap this up.
Cuban democratic socialism works to the satisfaction of the Cuban people.
They think it works.
Capitalism and multi-party politics are what is ruining the Third World and it cannot be reformed to the point that it can do anywhere near what the Cuban revolution has done for all Cubans. The fact that such systems have never been reformed successfully to any great degree is all the proof you should need to understand this.
I know you disagree with me now but I am sure that in another 20 years or so of disappointment you'll see what I see.
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