Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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But what is unforgiving is the fact that in the past 40 years most of Africa has been rules by Africans. (OK South Africa, Zimbabwaye is the exceptions). Yet this period is being ignored as a of history. That our hero’s made a hash of running their countries is ignored. From Sellasie, Kenyatta, Nhuhrumah, Sekou Toure, Kaunda, Ben Bella, Nasser, Banda, Machel, Neto, Obote, Lumumba are all portrayed as hero’s.. Yet they are not held accountable for the way the political and economic havocs they reaped on their respective sphere of influences when they ruled. .. That they each changed the constitutions that they inherited or developed that advocated the rights of humans, the rule of law for expedience and political reasons to hide their own failures / incompetencies .. This is the history that needs to be addressed.

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I agree with your assessment, Wahalla, hence the topic title states "Black-Led Countries". The exception being Lumumba who the Belgians and Yanks killed before he could do any good or damage - we'll never know which, so give him the benefit of the doubt. The list is long enough as it is, but we can add Senghor, Houphouet Boigny, Mobotu, les Duvalier père et fils, and on and on it goes.

Our leaders have mismanaged our countries into the ground and sold-off our resources and our people like cheap Chinese trinkets. I used to think we just weren't clever enough in our dealings with the West. Instead I now think that all of these highly-educated leaders knew exactly what they were doing and placed their own thirst for power over the needs of the people.

Enough is enough!

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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The point of this debate (Blackstar, please correct me if I am wrong) is that there seems to be a disconnect between the potential of most black-led countries and their actual performance. No one can doubt the ability of black people to create, produce and lead. The question is why can't this happen in our own countries?

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Yep, that's it wolmersboy!

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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We heard so many excuses. The colonialism one is my favorite. AKA. The all powerful WHITE MAN. No need to overcome. No need to plan better. No need to educate yourself. ALL is lost. GIVE UP, STAY IN BED AND CRY.

The racists, the pessimist and defeatist speak with the same voice.

Has anyone noticed?

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Yes - blaming external forces for our own misery puts us in a passive position where the solution is out of our hands and we wait...for what? permission? more aid? a UN report? prices of raw materials to increase? the West to write contracts that favor our interests?

[Morpheous]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Well I won't go on about the negatives so let me just give my opinion on a positive way forward.

I believe the solution lies in REGULATING EVERY nuck and cranny of Jamaica from medical/health to business to education to investment the WHOLE economic/financial sector by a separate powerful non-political independent REGULATORY BODY.

Without a regulatory body Jamaica won't/never will progress. All the bright ideas will count for ZERO until such a regulatory structure is in place to protect while enhancing opportunities for Jamaica.

1. This will put an end to many politicians pocketing borrowed money
2. Put an end to local and foreign businesses/men exploiting the economy
3. Enable proper running and investment through all the sectors of Jamaica
4. Make politicians more directly accountable
5. Protect Jamaicas natural resources if already privately owned or by nationalising them where possible.
6. Involve the diaspora in investment/shares in Jamaican manufacturing and production.
7. Bring in a regulated clause, of no more than 2 terms for active PM
8. Regulate the police and JDF
9. Regulate overseas contracts STRICTLY, where the benefits for Jamaica outweighs the risk and eliminate politicians personal financial gain.
10. Regulatory power to prosecute and imprison (even extradite) corrupt politicians.
11. Regulation to STOP political party violence; investigate, fine and inprison politicians/MP found to be directly or indirectly involved in political violence; eg: funding, blackmail, leaflets or making speeches that can/could incite or influence political violence.
12. Encourage lower taxes for foreign and diaspora investors; potentially increasing employment for the poorer people and preventing exploitation through said regulatory structure.
13 Oh... and get rid of the Governer General - his role is outdated and obselete. A constant reminder that Jamaica is NOT YET INDEPENDENT!!!

Regulation... regulation... regulation - Like burglar alarm and garlic, the thieves and corrupted vampires are scared of it and don't want it in force.

[Archie68]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Let me address your points per point.

1.agree but I doubt the implementation.
2.No such thing. The only reason any foreign corporation is in Jamaica is to exploit Jamaica. The question is: at what level is it mutually beneficial?

3.I do not understand. Explain.

4.The institutions exist. The people do not care.

5.Jamaicans, like most people in the world, do excellent lip service about that.

Its enforcement involves stopping fishermen, already poor, from fishing further and catching smaller fish and stopping illegal fishing inside Jamaican water by others. Our navy is minimal and cannot enforce that and we cannot enforce our own fishermen from catching what they catch. It involves stopping poor people from cutting down forest and mangroves. Enforcement of that one will be difficult.

6.Such as? Sure there is lots of Jamarican and UKJam money out there. However, they are afraid, with justification.

7.100 percent agreement. I would expand that. 3 consecutive terms for other elected politicians. New blood all the time may not solve the problem but it limits the construction of political patronage to a degree. Let a new swine into the thouf once in a while.

8.They are regulated. They are very afraid and politicians realize that. They are fighting gansters often better armed. Indeed, the ganstars are beginning to display fire discipline; something only trained soldiers are supposed to have. You know, the ganstars have political/local support.

9.See number 2. Such contract management is inherently open to fraud. The foreign corporations can account their way past that one.

10.Such power already exist.

11.I agree.

12.I agree. But every time it has been tried (it has been), it has been exploited to avoid taxation. Remember when they exempted vehicles of returning Jamaicans from import duties? Imported cars and trucks were being sent by the thousands; Officially, by Jamareican and old English; free of import duties.

13.100 percent agreement in the sentiment. I disagreement on the implementation. Some people are attached to the idea. Let those that want to dream of that time keep their little reminder. It costs little and keeps them quiet. I understand if you think otherwise. A complete break makes the point to them and it makes the point to the UK. There is much to be said for that. However, my view is that there is a benefit in keeping the illusion going.

I give you this, you have thought about it. 99.9 percent are unwilling to do that. You advocate change and reform and that is this first step. It is what we need.

I may seem like a contrarian. That would be a wrong conclusion. I support your points and believe they should be discussed repeatedly.

You are talking about a breaking of a an established attitude. I agree completely. However, it is a long term project. I agree with your points for the most part.

[Morpheous]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

When I say regulatory body I don't mean a single regulatory body. I am talking about a single regulatory body for each sector of Jamaica; like it is in any other aspiring and developed countries. In much the same way ministers are responsible for each sector i.e. transport, agriculture, tourism, technology, financial/business, health, education etc; a regulatory body would be in place for each of the sectors to regulate it, the ministers and individuals that work within that sector. They would be independent from political persuasions and answerable to no one but the highest court . The laws and legislations would be passed by ministers on the recommendations of the regulatory body. Once passed no minister or politician could overrule, and even the PM would not have powers to influence it either way. These regulatory bodies can be setup via the courts by electing/appointing a panel of people in charge of running each regulatory body. If they are deemed to be politically influenced or corrupt, they would be expelled by their elected peers within that body under the supervision of a judicial system and punished - fine or inprisonment or both.

If these regulatory bodies are setup and run correctly. then it will not hold Jamaica back but propel it into the millenium and enhance our progress. It would not stop poorer/struggling farmers and fishermen from fishing or farming but educate them under its directives and/or rules of how to work with the environment to sustain growth and produce for the future. Yes targets would be set and limits imposed INITIALLY but, while other programmes are running to rejuvenate fish stocks and trees. This is not difficult and it is more expensive and careless to continue WITHOUT a programme that works with the environment to replenish what is consumed in the production process. Such programmes work out cheaper and more efficient in the medium-long term as well as being more self reliant and competitive. A country without regulatory bodies in place are open to abuse, exploitation, corruption and ultimate failure. Such a unregulated sectors of any country WILL lead to lawlessness - attracting ONLY the vampires and leeches to feed on Jamaica until they suck her bone dry.

It's like surfing the internet without a firewall, anti-spyware and anti-virus installed! You woudn't dream of it! Yet, it doesn't prevent you from surfing the internet and going where you want, in fact you feel more confident and visit any website you want, and it doesn't affect the performance of your computer! So is it insane to run a country without regulatory bodies in place to protect its infracture, economy and progress while creating opportunities for it to grow - keeping out the vampires and leeches both local and foreign.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

So why aren't black leaders of majority black countries applying these sort of solutions already? and from day one?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Morpheous,

How is it possible to regulate things like fishing in Jamaica or any other poor country?
I've been on the beach when the fishing boats have come in from the reefs and their traps have caught everything around including fish smaller than my finger.
Nothing gets put back because there aren't enough fish, especially in a capitalist/free market fishing industry because it's competetive both from fighting for the same reef spot and fish to marketing. The smallest fish become fish tea instead of growing to spawning size.

Haiti is a prime example of how poverty can strip an island bare.
It's a ruined landscape there with all their topsoil washed into the sea and no force in the world can stop poor Haitians from cutting down that last tree because they need to cook their next meal.

The enemy is poverty. We must first address the basic needs of all.
A hungry man, a homeless man, a poor man is not spending his time thinking of how he can best serve the world or the environment.
He'll dynamite the reef.

We cannot work on fine detail until the elements of a decent life can be guaranteed to every man, woman and child.

Then we can climb to the stars.


Superimposing sets of regulations on a poverty stricken people has never worked because you're superimposing them over a corrupting capitalist economic base which pays people more to ignore the rules.

What are you gonna do? Shoot an old lady for chopping down a tree for firewood?

[Morpheous]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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So why aren't black leaders of majority black countries applying these sort of solutions already? and from day one?

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Because it takes decipline and many are corrupt and like things the way they are. Others are under the influence of foreign countries that would rather such poorer countries operate without regulation in order for them to remain vulnerable and easily exploited. Regulation is not the answer to ALL the problems of poorer countries but it make it much more difficult for the vampires to suck poorer countries dry. Vampires both local and foreign will exert pressure to stop regulations. In some cases de-regulation is welcome and important. BUT to have no regulation at all is simply madness!

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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What are you gonna do? Shoot an old lady for chopping down a tree for firewood?

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No old woman is chopping down trees - she will send one of her grandchildren to do it. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[wolmersboy]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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What are you gonna do? Shoot an old lady for chopping down a tree for firewood?

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No old woman is chopping down trees - she will send one of her grandchildren to do it. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

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[img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[Morpheous]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

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How is it possible to regulate things like fishing in Jamaica or any other poor country?
I've been on the beach when the fishing boats have come in from the reefs and their traps have caught everything around including fish smaller than my finger.
Nothing gets put back because there aren't enough fish, especially in a capitalist/free market fishing industry because it's competetive both from fighting for the same reef spot and fish to marketing. The smallest fish become fish tea instead of growing to spawning size.

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Regulation would regulate:
1. The type of nets fishermen use - so only large mature fishes are caught
2. The method of fishing used i.e. trawler net fishing - allowed in designated areas only for certain times of the year
3. The amount/weight of certain species of fish to be caught - monitoring catchments as they dock for weighing-in
4. The areas deemed as high risk to fish extinction - protected areas and out of bounds enforced
5. Banning foreign fishermen from fishing within your seas/fishing borders - coast guards and technology can achieve this it is not as expensive as one might think.
6. A government funding scheme to assist fishermen who abide by the regulations and fine those who do not.

I admit some of what is mentioned is highly contraversal 3-5. Some countries have banned trawler fishing or within certain areas by commercial fishermen. This is similar to the greenhouse gases scenario. We all know something has to be done but see no way to control it unless all culprits agree and sign up to lower/reduce greenhouse gas emitions. Well the good news is finally the ozone layer has shrunk which is a good sign it is slowling closing and returning to normal. The same consistent pressures has to to placed on fisheries. Japan was brought to bear by its whale fishing practices - they are not as bad as they were 30 years ago. Again we are talking about COMMERCIAL companies fishing irresponsibly and driving certain fishes and sea creatures to extinction. NOT the small man or poor fisherman in his little boat.

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Haiti is a prime example of how poverty can strip an island bare.
It's a ruined landscape there with all their topsoil washed into the sea and no force in the world can stop poor Haitians from cutting down that last tree because they need to cook their next meal.

The enemy is poverty. We must first address the basic needs of all.
A hungry man, a homeless man, a poor man is not spending his time thinking of how he can best serve the world or the environment.
He'll dynamite the reef.

We cannot work on fine detail until the elements of a decent life can be guaranteed to every man, woman and child.

Then we can climb to the stars.


Superimposing sets of regulations on a poverty stricken people has never worked because you're superimposing them over a corrupting capitalist economic base which pays people more to ignore the rules.

What are you gonna do? Shoot an old lady for chopping down a tree for firewood?

[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to have latched on to the idea that regulatory bodies are ONLY concerned about environmental issues re: trees and lanscape. The environment, and in particular land and trees are a small part of any countrys' collective sectors. Besides who said regulation is a system of superimposing on a corrupt system? Where did you read about that? Regulation cannot be superimposed on a corrupt system - that is not what regulatory bodies are in place to do. OIL and WATER don't mix! You mention poor people/old ladies chopping down trees for firewood to cook their meals. That is not the same thing as COMMERCIAL driven companies with lumberjacks logging down huge acres of forest/trees for commercial use/gain. Such commercial logging would have to be restricted and monitored for the sake of the very poor people and the soil for farmers to grow crops much less environmental disasters. That would mean atmospheric and soil degradation on an irreversible scale. That is what regulation would tackle NOT the individual old ladies and poor people trying to feed themselves. It's the big fish not the small fish that must be curbed initially, poor people will be taught and learn in due course that bad habits must change or their children will eventually starve to death. Rememebr regulation is not in place to restrict or tax the small man or poor people. It is their to weed out the the Mr. Big, the vampires, corrupted and leeches - the Fat Cats.

[Archie68]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

I was one of those children. We never went to chop down trees for fire wood, joncal. We pick dry wood for fires. But such fires are full of smoke and not good indoors. To cook under cover, you need coal. And that we made it in the old way.

Once in a while, adult male relatives, with us pickney tagging along would head into the forest and chop down trees. We would dig holes while the men felled trees and chopped up the trees and return to finish digging the hole. After that, we would dump all the logs into the hole and bring every piece of dry wood we could find and then light it and wait until the fire caught and then backfilled. After a couple of days we would come back and pick out the coal and hoal the bags back.

We kept some and sold most. dat is de whey de poor cuntry people do it. It is still done. The rich could afford gas but that is the way we did it. It is fuel you can get without money.

You try and regulate that and there will be fights.

In the old days when there was wild pigs around, the men would catch one and slow cook it in the fire. My great grandmother said that was the source of Boston Jerk.

Just an observance.

[Archie68]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

I agree. But enforcement would be difficult. Unless you are willing to impose a police state (joncal's way).

Indeed a change is needed. Yet, we are set in our ways. It will take a powerful force to change the direction of things.

You are right MOrpheous. Either way, change is coming.

Either we manage the change or the change dictates to us. God help us. It is gooding tobe hard either way.

[little pepper]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

quality of growth was mentioned earlier. From stats & articles I saw some years back that's one gripe about sweat shops. With earning a small wage often comes extra expenses and having to pay, or pay more, for vital requirements.

And I'll add here, only someone who has never worked in a sweat shop would condone such things.

Even so, there are sometimes I think colonial messing-up can take some of the blame. eg Mozambique, when the Portugese left they took everything with them, including light bulbs (according to documentaries a few years later) and had not allowed the local population to be educated or trained.

Still now, the whole issue of blood diamonds & timber around Sierra Leone is about funding for foreign fighting.

And Africa has an enormous amount of valuable resources.

imo, there's a whole range of possible reasons. I saw an ad in the Gleaner earlier this year, from UK, asking for people's opinions on how to better Jamaica, eliminating poverty and other things. When I remember, I'll look for the ad and check their site to see if they came up with anything.