Political Discourse in Jamaica

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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<font color="blue">Somehow, I don't think PSM will agree to this. It's a good sign that Golding is getting aggressive though.
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I think having debates is a fantastic idea. Put the issues out there. Let the people hear for themselves what vision the party leaders have for Jamaica. It would go a long ways to help raise the level of political discourse.

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I never care too much for the debate ting.....but dis year yes man!
Let the Simpleton prove that she can hangle Bruce.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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Before the level of the political discourse in Jamaica can be upgraded, the population as a whole needs to become more sophisticated in matters political. Children in school need to be taught citizenship and history so they can learn how to function more effectively in a democratic society. Critical thinking and reasoning need to be encouraged. Blindly following anyone--politician or religious leader--is a sure way to end up in disaster.

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Yes this approach should be taken for the youths.

But what about big people who are no longer in school? Wignall said this in his column yesterday:<font color="blue"> "If, for example, a voter aged 54, who cannot read, write or divide one by five should be asked "When you look at Portia Simpson Miller and Bruce Golding, who do you believe would do the better job of saving Jamaica from the ravages of global warming?" the respondent says in his mind, 'I have no idea wha dis girl a ask mi'.
But he figures that Portia is 'a good person' so it must be Portia, so he answers, "Poosha"."</font>

Complex topics like global warming and local environmental issues need to be explained properly to citizens who can't read or write, yet despite their illiteracy are not stupid. In certain countries, ballots have pictures of the candidates so voters know who to choose. While Jamaica's illiteracy rate is not that bad, we could use some visual and oral equivalent to engage a debate with the people.

[wolmersboy]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

Agreed.

Some good explanatory documentaries on the environment, foreign debt and the political process, specifically aimed at folks like you described, wouldn't hurt, either.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

Here is one aspect of the bias in the Press.

Lessons to be learnt

The Stoll Poll has confirmed the earlier findings by the Bill Johnson Poll that Prime Minister Portia Simpson-Miller is overwhelmingly more popular than Opposition Leader Bruce Golding at this stage. We understand the relative standing of the political parties in relation to each other is somewhat closer than the distance between their respective leaders. However, the Polls have put the PM ahead of the Opposition Leader in every category except public speaking.
All of this obviously bodes well for the ruling PNP in its quest for a fifth consecutive term in Government. Those who are in the know have indicated that there is significant financial support from a not insubstantial clique within the private sector for the JLP. Words like mind boggling have been used to describe the kind of cash that has been put at the disposal of the JLP.

At the same time they are saying that PM Portia Simpson-Miller is not likely to get the financial support despite the enormous popular support she enjoys. We hope the JLP strategists remember one of the lessons garnered from the presidential contest within the PNP in which she trounced her opponents despite having and spending more money than she was able to do.

The Jamaican electorate is increasingly sophisticated and cannot be bought and sold by the highest bidder. Jamaican politics is replete with this lesson, however, there are still many within the ranks of the rich and powerful who believe that they can buy their way to Gordon House and beyond.

We do wonder however, what is behind the enormous war chest and largesse? What is the interest that they are seeking to secure? What is the danger they are seeking to prevent? And more profoundly, what do they expect in return?

While enjoying the lead the PM and her team should not take the goodwill of the people towards her for granted. It is important not to betray the people’s faith in her. All of this popularity needs to be made to count for something very tangible in the experience of the ordinary people of the land.

We understand that it is not a push button operation, but it cannot be business as usual. And we believe the PM is wise enough to understand that the people’s trust must never be betrayed.

http://www.sunheraldjamaica.com/editorial1.htm

[Blackstar*]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

<font color="blue">Portia reckons silence is golden</font> [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

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"During the short period of time that I have been prime minister, there have been some criticisms about my not talking enough; but I was told that governments internationally love to 'chat' too much and that governments talk 90 per cent of the time and implement 10."
According to Simpson Miller, in trying to "implement, to get close to the 90 per cent and talk ten," she has been criticised for "not talking".

"I am sure you will agree with me that what you want to see is deliverables, what you want must be action, not 'a bag of mouth'. And I can assure you that despite the limited resources my government will try everything it can to ensure that while we balance the books, we balance people's lives," Simpson Miller told an appreciative group of listeners. More...

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[Tuff Gong]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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<font color="blue">Portia reckons silence is golden</font> [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

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"During the short period of time that I have been prime minister, there have been some criticisms about my not talking enough; but I was told that governments internationally love to 'chat' too much and that governments talk 90 per cent of the time and implement 10."
According to Simpson Miller, in trying to "implement, to get close to the 90 per cent and talk ten," she has been criticised for "not talking".

"I am sure you will agree with me that what you want to see is deliverables, what you want must be action, not 'a bag of mouth'. And I can assure you that despite the limited resources my government will try everything it can to ensure that while we balance the books, we balance people's lives," Simpson Miller told an appreciative group of listeners. More...

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Wait a second she was doing a lot of talking and still doing a lot of talking. In church and at the various party functions. What she is not talking about is how she gwine get the country out of the mess. Robbing the poor to give the poor is not a valid option.... except for a current and bankrupt government.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

EDITORIAL: The danger of not debating
published: Tuesday | September 5, 2006

We are disappointed that the Prime Minister, Mrs. Simpson Miller, would insist that she has no need to debate Mr. Bruce Golding, the Opposition Leader, as she declared in her speech at the weekend.

Unless, that is, we have not grasped fully the nuance of Mrs. Simpson Miller's statement. Perhaps her argument that she did not have to prove herself in debate did not mean she would not or had no intention of debating Mr. Golding.

It is likely, therefore, that the Prime Minister means that there is no need, at this time, to meet Mr. Golding face-to-face, in a cut-and-thrust exchange and debate of ideas and visions. Her job, at this time, is to get on with the business of government. She will be willing to engage in the face-to-face vision thing during a real election campaign.

If that is the Prime Minister's thinking, then so be it. More...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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EDITORIAL: The danger of not debating
published: Tuesday | September 5, 2006

We are disappointed that the Prime Minister, Mrs. Simpson Miller, would insist that she has no need to debate Mr. Bruce Golding, the Opposition Leader, as she declared in her speech at the weekend.

Unless, that is, we have not grasped fully the nuance of Mrs. Simpson Miller's statement. Perhaps her argument that she did not have to prove herself in debate did not mean she would not or had no intention of debating Mr. Golding.

It is likely, therefore, that the Prime Minister means that there is no need, at this time, to meet Mr. Golding face-to-face, in a cut-and-thrust exchange and debate of ideas and visions. Her job, at this time, is to get on with the business of government. She will be willing to engage in the face-to-face vision thing during a real election campaign.

If that is the Prime Minister's thinking, then so be it. More...

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The press in Jamaica while appearing to be critical will always hand the Village Fool a lifeline. LOL!

[wolmersboy]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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EDITORIAL: The danger of not debating
published: Tuesday | September 5, 2006

We are disappointed that the Prime Minister, Mrs. Simpson Miller, would insist that she has no need to debate Mr. Bruce Golding, the Opposition Leader, as she declared in her speech at the weekend.

Unless, that is, we have not grasped fully the nuance of Mrs. Simpson Miller's statement. Perhaps her argument that she did not have to prove herself in debate did not mean she would not or had no intention of debating Mr. Golding.

It is likely, therefore, that the Prime Minister means that there is no need, at this time, to meet Mr. Golding face-to-face, in a cut-and-thrust exchange and debate of ideas and visions. Her job, at this time, is to get on with the business of government. She will be willing to engage in the face-to-face vision thing during a real election campaign.

If that is the Prime Minister's thinking, then so be it. More...

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You know, if this is the best our newspapers can give us, then maybe we shouldn't be so hard on the voters...not much of an example of critical thinking and challenging people's positions, is it? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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You know, if this is the best our newspapers can give us, then maybe we shouldn't be so hard on the voters...not much of an example of critical thinking and challenging people's positions, is it? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

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That the best they can deliver and yet we should not be so hard on the voters because they have been schooled in the ways of the stoopid.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

Public invited to 'THINK' with PNP aspirants today
Mark Cummings
Thursday, September 07, 2006

The five men who are aspiring to represent Central Westmoreland on the ticket of the ruling Peoples National Party (PNP) will participate in a public panel discussion in Westmoreland at Independence Park, Hendon Circle today.

The discussion entitled "THINK", is expected to kick-off at 6:00 pm, and is being put on by Dawn Mullings, founder of Hope Events Planning, a three-year-old private company.

Mullings, who lives in Westmoreland, told the Observer West that as a lover of politics, she was staging the event as a service to the public.

"The objective of the panel discussion is to give the public an opportunity to understand what the aspirants are all about and to start thinking about the relevant issues. Even though it is just the delegates that will vote at first, at some time the public will be called to vote for at least one of them," she said.
The five aspirants are Carey Wallace, a hotelier; Leonard Green, a lawyer, Paul Buchanan, a consultant; Paul Wilson, an engineer and Dr Victor Watt an engineer and lecturer at the University of Technology (UTech).

All emerged with ambitions to run against the opposition Jamaica Labour Party's (JLP) Russel Hammond in the wake of former cabinet minister, Dr Karl Blythe's decision not to contest the seat at the next polls.

Veteran journalist Lloyd B Smith will moderate the event which is being sponsored in part by some members of Westmoreland's business community who wished to remain anonymous.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

<font color="blue">Now, Portia, about that debate...
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Golding dares Gov't to accept national debate
published: Saturday | September 9, 2006

Edmond Campbell, Senior News Coordinator


Opposition Leader Bruce Golding (third right) with Member of Parliament for Eastern St. Andrew, Dr. St. Aubyn Bartlett (second right), leads Jamaica Labour Party supporters on a tour of the constituency yesterday. - Junior Dowie/Staff Photographer


Opposition Leader Bruce Golding has challenged the governing People's National Party (PNP) to face off in national debates with the full slate of Opposition shadow ministers.

Mr. Golding's latest invitation to the governing People's National Party (PNP), for national debates, came yesterday.

A recent suggestion that the Prime Minister and Opposition Leader engage in weekly debates on national issues was dismissed by Information Minister and General Secretary of the PNP, Colin Campbell.

Too busy

In a letter to the editor, Mr. Campbell argued that Mrs. Simpson Miller could not be expected to participate in weekly debates to the detriment of the nation's business.

But speaking with journalists yesterday during a tour of the Eastern St. Andrew constituency, a marginal JLP seat, held by Dr. St. Aubyn Bartlett, Mr. Golding said he had proposed to the National Debate Commission that debates be held at the leisure of the contenders, followed by final debates when elections are called.

He said the discussions would allow voters to get a better understanding of the choices they have and the decisions they would ultimately make.

"If the Prime Minister is too busy to have debates on national issues in order to enable the public to be informed as to the direction in which she intends to take the country then I wonder what else she is too busy to do," the Opposition Leader said.

Golding ready

Mr. Golding said whenever the debates were called he would be ready, noting that the party was not only depending on that approach to win the next election.

Meanwhile, scores of party faithful braved the moderate afternoon showers to meet and greet the Opposition Leader.

Residents of Tavern, St. Andrew, highlighted some of the problems affecting the community, including massive soil erosion near the banks of the Hope River, which has left a number of homes at risk.

Mr. Golding said the MP has made repeated representation on behalf of the residents to get the authorities to address the problems to no avail.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica


She can run but she can't hide.

As for the spurious argument about Golding did switch, here is a letter that says it all:

Switching is not a sin
published: Saturday | September 9, 2006

The Editor, Sir:

The argument about Bruce Golding's switch from JLP to NDM and back, descended to its most ridiculous state when Mr. Brascoe Lee emphatically suggested that politicians who do such switching should not be trusted.

Mr. Lee may not have known that Winston Churchill of world renown was fully trusted by Britain during the most challenging years of World War II; and this was done although he had shifted party allegiance between Conservative and Liberal when his judgement so directed. Neither party scorned his talent and he was indeed made head of the Coalition Cabinet that led his country during those crucial conflicts around the globe.

For Mr. Lee's further information, Jamaica has seen distinguished service by many persons who at some time or other changed their political affiliation.

Bustamante was once a member of the PNP. Burnett Coke was a well respected Speaker of the House after moving from JLP to PNP. Rose Leon was an outstanding Minister in both parties; and the brilliant Ken Hill found opportunity to serve in the PNP as well as the JLP.

In recent times, less noted politicians have crossed party lines and been warmly received by the PNP. The latest is none other than Mr. Lee who, I suppose, expects to be trusted despite his scornful utterances about turncoats like himself.

Turning coat is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when it is based on some stated principle that affects the good order of governance. Unfortunately, the recent cases have all come about because of personality conflicts rather than policy issues of any importance to the electorate. It does appear that without a party coat some of these people are as naked as can be.

I am, etc.,

KEN JONES

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060909/letters/letters4.html

[Blackstar*]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

Tuff Gong, Donikka, and Wolmersboy have made some interesting observations regarding the state of the press an on specific articles going easy on elected officials. With the exception that Wolmersboy and Donikka haven't characterized the PNP as "despotic", this statement from Tuff Gong does more or less accurately summarize what has been said so far.
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One cannot rely upon the so-called 4th Estate which have acted more in the vanguard of a corrupt despotic PNP than in defense of the Jamaican citizens.

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At the moment, I rely on the press published on the Internet for info (as opposed to TV and radio) and it looks to me that they are really slacking - lack of money? expertise? experience?

- Some articles are published directly as is from the JIS!

- Articles are written with only one side presented.

- No "dossiers" available to follow major issues from the first article written to the latest.

One of the positives: the Observer cartoonist is kicking a$$! His cartoons could be posted on billboards throughout Jamaica. Have a series re. NHT on one side of the road. A series on 'God' on the other side of the road, etc., etc.

[niceniss]

Re: Political Discourse in Jamaica

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She can run but she can't hide.

As for the spurious argument about Golding did switch, here is a letter that says it all:

Switching is not a sin
published: Saturday | September 9, 2006

The Editor, Sir:

The argument about Bruce Golding's switch from JLP to NDM and back, descended to its most ridiculous state when Mr. Brascoe Lee emphatically suggested that politicians who do such switching should not be trusted.

Mr. Lee may not have known that Winston Churchill of world renown was fully trusted by Britain during the most challenging years of World War II; and this was done although he had shifted party allegiance between Conservative and Liberal when his judgement so directed. Neither party scorned his talent and he was indeed made head of the Coalition Cabinet that led his country during those crucial conflicts around the globe.

For Mr. Lee's further information, Jamaica has seen distinguished service by many persons who at some time or other changed their political affiliation.

Bustamante was once a member of the PNP. Burnett Coke was a well respected Speaker of the House after moving from JLP to PNP. Rose Leon was an outstanding Minister in both parties; and the brilliant Ken Hill found opportunity to serve in the PNP as well as the JLP.

In recent times, less noted politicians have crossed party lines and been warmly received by the PNP. The latest is none other than Mr. Lee who, I suppose, expects to be trusted despite his scornful utterances about turncoats like himself.

Turning coat is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when it is based on some stated principle that affects the good order of governance. Unfortunately, the recent cases have all come about because of personality conflicts rather than policy issues of any importance to the electorate. It does appear that without a party coat some of these people are as naked as can be.

I am, etc.,

KEN JONES

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060909/letters/letters4.html

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At the beginning of the letter I saw "Brascoe Lee" and had to blink twice. He's now a member of the PNP?

who's he to talk when he's now aligned with the most destructive force Jamaica has ever had the misfortune of knowing? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]