Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

[lonewolf]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since neither of you read <span style="font-weight: bold">Hvanatimes.org</span> you really don't know how the Cuban people feel about things reading and relying on information and wishful thinking from the capitalist press which parrots the talk and thinking of the States Department.
</div></div>

It's a government controlled newspaper. Everything that is in print in Cuba is government controlled Even more so than our own media sources in the US. You vehemently oppose US news sources as unreliable, but you don't have any problem believing a Cuban news source? Why? Since you have not visted Cuba in your life time and have not spoken to the Cuban people personally, means you know nothing more than anyone else that has not visited the country. All information that you gather is sought and obtained from sights that agree with your agenda or what you want to perceive as truth. That's fine, we all have a tendancy to gravitate to sources of information that we want to beleive as the truth, but you put an absolute on every bit of your opinion.
Why can't you put your personal agenda aside and seek what is real rather than what you want to perceive as the truth? Your opinion is no better or worse than anyone else's opinion..... I must remind you that Wahalla has actually been to Cuba.
He may have an advantage at this point in time.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

&quot;It's a government controlled newspaper. Everything that is in print in Cuba is government controlled&quot;


Thank you Wolfie,

You have made a point that I have been trying to make for about a year.

That point is that it is a given that when I present an article or a website that runs counter to the thinking of people who accept the U.S. government position on things and notably right wingers but also those who are just opposed to any position I hold because of my often unpleasant tone and my unpopular political and moral positions, those articles and websites are rarely read or visited by those people.

In this case it's the Havanatimes.


It is not a newspaper, it is a website.

It is not government controlled, but rather is TOLERATED by the government now headed by Raul Castro.

Had you actually read anything about the website or on the website including the many many articles/ diary entries extremely critical of Cuba''s economic and political system those facts would have been obvious.

All of the articles and entries are by regular Cubans, none of whom can be considered to be publishing for the benefit of the government but rather to freely express their opinions.


Here's what you might have discovered had you actually looked at the website.

http://www.havanatimes.org/?page_id=571

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

Jamaicans.com has about ten times the readership as the Havanatimes.org site. I bet less than 100 people IN Cuba ever read at the site. And it isn't edited in Cuba. Cubans don't have the internet... or very few Cubans have the internet I should say.

Perhaps you saw this?

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=36094

[johnnycakes]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaicans.com has about ten times the readership as the Havanatimes.org site. I bet less than 100 people IN Cuba ever read at the site. And it isn't edited in Cuba. Cubans don't have the internet... or very few Cubans have the internet I should say.

Perhaps you saw this?

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=36094 </div></div>


A couple of points;

I read the interview with Circles Robinson months ago and he and I have exchanged e-mails.

He has to run the site from his home country, Nicaragua since he lost his translating job in Cuba and couldn't stay without employment there.

Havanatimes.org is about two years old and I'm more concerned with its readership OUTSIDE Cuba that inside Cuba since ALL Cubans know everything the writers at Havanatimes have to say and the uninformed, misinformed and DISINFORMED people in the States and Jamaica do not.

The Cubans like most Third Worlders do not have the hundreds of dollars it costs to own a computer but the Venezuelans have run an undersea cable to Cuba to enable wideband service they were unable to get from the United States which seeks to destroy the revolution.

If and when the USA ends the embargo we will be able to send our unused and somewhat outdated computers to Cuba as we ourselves update our own equipment.


It is good to see that at least you have the intellectual curiosity and courage to read what the Havanatimes website has to offer.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Do high-ranking Communist Party officials accumulate personal wealth in a way comparable to politicians in capitalist countries?</span>

That is a difficult one to answer, since there is no real investigative journalism allowed in Cuba. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Can you tell us if there exists any workplace democracy? Are Cuban workers involved in planning and decision-making? And what rights do workers have when in dispute with the company leadership?
</span>
Cuban workers are rarely involved in planning and decision-making. They are informed of centralised planning and decisions made from above, but their voices are rarely taken into account. From what I could see at places where I worked, and in those of friends and colleagues, Cuban workers are pretty much defenceless in disputes with the administration.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Castro apologists outside Cuba are enthusiastic about the democratic election system, whereby Cuban workers stand their own candidates. What can you tell us about this?</span>

The Cuban electoral system looks far better on paper than it does in practice. Virtually no campaigning is permitted: the posting of candidate résumés is as far as it goes. Moreover, candidates have to go through an initial party screening process that is seldom discussed.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">How much influence do the elected candidates have over government policies?
</span></span>
Those who are finally elected have relatively little influence on policies and in the case of the nation’s parliament the 600-plus legislators meet for only two very brief sessions a year, during which time they are presented with figures and explanations by the different ministers and the top leaders. Many appear to simply go along with what is put forward out of trust in the revolutionary government.</div></div>

[Wahalla]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

good answers and this is in line with my experience of the place...

[Wahalla]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That is a difficult one to answer, since there is no real investigative journalism allowed in Cuba.

</div></div>

At least two officals were executed for accumulating wealth.. one a general... tip of ice berg....Fidel wore armani suits on a trip to the US so one assumes that all the workers in Cuba had armani sutis

[lonewolf]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's a government controlled newspaper. Everything that is in print in Cuba is government controlled&quot;


Thank you Wolfie,

You have made a point that I have been trying to make for about a year.

That point is that it is a given that when I present an article or a website that runs counter to the thinking of people who accept the U.S. government position on things and notably right wingers but also those who are just opposed to any position I hold because of my often unpleasant tone and my unpopular political and moral positions, those articles and websites are rarely read or visited by those people.

In this case it's the Havanatimes.


It is not a newspaper, it is a website.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We’ve made it to year two of Havana Times, and the <span style="font-weight: bold">online publication</span> has continued to grow both in audience and contributors. Without any publicity effort, relying on word of mouth and the search engines, the site now occupies an important space in the<span style="font-weight: bold"> digital press</span> on Cuba, providing a voice to numerous individuals who care about the island and its future</div></div>


So what, it's not in print on a piece of paper. It's still a digital press. The word &quot;press&quot; in reference to the pressing of ink on to paper. It's still a news source, and as you say yourself it's &quot;tolerated&quot; by the government. This means the information is tempered or controlled by the staff of the paper, excuse me, the &quot;digital press&quot;, for fear of being forbidin to publish. That is not freedom of the press Fear of having to watch what you publish is still censorship..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Havana Times remains visible for the relatively small segment of the population in Cuba that has Internet,<span style="font-weight: bold"> as the censors have not classified us as part of the dissident </span><span style="font-weight: bold">blogger world </span>that gets their sites blocked</div></div>


CENSORS? NOT GOVERMENT CONTROLLED? Yeah, right. I'm not convinced.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

Wolfie,

We long ago agreed that you would never be convinced that the Cuban revolution is a good thing.
You blew off the charge that you did not, do not and have no intention of reading the Havanatimes and did not refute it.

They are not government controlled and you confirmed this.

&quot;as the censors have not classified us as part of the dissident blogger world'

Censors ARE government officials and the censors in Cuba do not touch Havanatimes.org or the Cuban people who write for the website.

[lonewolf]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Censors ARE government officials and the <span style="font-weight: bold">censors in Cuba do not touch Havanatimes.org </span>or the Cuban people who write for the website. </div></div>

As long as what is published is approved by the censors(government). The censors are still watching the site. The few Cuban people that have internet have censored internet. Government approves or disaproves of what is allowed for view. It's obvious that Havanatimes knows what they can get away with and what they can't.

It's cut and dry. Censorship is censorship.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Censors ARE government officials and the <span style="font-weight: bold">censors in Cuba do not touch Havanatimes.org </span>or the Cuban people who write for the website. </div></div>

As long as what is published is approved by the censors(government). The censors are still watching the site. The few Cuban people that have internet have censored internet. Government approves or disaproves of what is allowed for view. It's obvious that Havanatimes knows what they can get away with and what they can't.

It's cut and dry. Censorship is censorship. </div></div>



Good argument. They're censored but they're not censored.

They are not censored because :

1) none of the writers at havanatimes.org work for the U.S government as the jailed &quot;journalists&quot; did.

2) Their criticisms are valid and recognized as such. Very few of the writers are against the not-quite democratic socialism they have and want ONLY to fix what's wrong much as those in love with capitalism and the two-party system want to do here.

3) Raul may be easing up where he can to make life easier until the embargo gets lifted by the next Republican president.(Since he's had a hard time fighting down charges of being a socialist, Obama won't do it. The only thing Obama likes about Cuba is Guantanamo)

and.....how would you know anything about Cuba given those joke websites you look at and given your avoidance of objective and scholarly sources. You cannot speak effectively on havanatimes since you don't read it.


Here, read/ignore a few of these reports:

http://web.gc.cuny.edu/bildnercenter/publications/ChangingCuba.shtml

[Archie68]

Re: Cuba legalising real estate and car sales

When I read your words, I wonder if:

1. You are a CIA plant.
2. Or, you are as stupid as your posts suggest