The Troubles of Sista P

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

Was the capital develope fund created to develope the local communities?? NO. The same people who clammer so often to use funds not earmarked for for other purposes are the same ones that are as aggressively opposing the use of NIS funds to be loaned to small businesses. The latter is withinh the principles of the fund,but because it will give small business a filip.
..and you wonder why the small people don't trust them!!

[RichD]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just as I thought ... nuttin nah gwhan.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks. </div></div>

... Usually economic growth is not usually equally dispersed in the economy ...

... So economic growth, can and does in many cases result in negative economic benefits to the poor ...
</div></div> </div></div>

is di same ting all over...caanda has the most consisten growth fo an G8 county....huge federal buget surplus....huge trade surplus...yet if you speak to the man onthe street nuttin nah gwaan fi dem too.


whenever i go to Jamaica i have a really hard time balancing the economic figures that are published with what i see goin on on the street.....i lean towards those who suggest that a very large part of the economy is unmeasured.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just as I thought ... nuttin nah gwhan.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks. </div></div>

... Usually economic growth is not usually equally dispersed in the economy ...

... So economic growth, can and does in many cases result in negative economic benefits to the poor ...
</div></div> </div></div>

is di same ting all over...caanda has the most consisten growth fo an G8 county....huge federal buget surplus....huge trade surplus...yet if you speak to the man onthe street nuttin nah gwaan fi dem too.


whenever I go to Jamaica I have a really hard time balancing the economic figures that are published with what I see goin on on the street.....I lean towards those who suggest that a very large part of the economy is unmeasured. </div></div>

The problem is that those areas that are being under counted now,were being counted during the 80's period. That is why the poor people were so much in a hurry,to get rid of them,and are in no hurry to rid themselves of the present party.
The JLP need to convince the people that they are not all about finding scandals,but are able "to make supp'n happ'n fi dem'.

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Rich - you could not have said a truer thing. I hear and read all these great numbers being thrown out by the govt and their entities about how much improvement is seeing.

But I damn sure don't see the man on the street realizing it - at all. In fact, it seems like the man on the street is going backwards!

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just as I thought ... nuttin nah gwhan.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks. </div></div>

... Usually economic growth is not usually equally dispersed in the economy ...

... So economic growth, can and does in many cases result in negative economic benefits to the poor ...
</div></div> </div></div>

is di same ting all over...caanda has the most consisten growth fo an G8 county....huge federal buget surplus....huge trade surplus...yet if you speak to the man onthe street nuttin nah gwaan fi dem too.


whenever i go to Jamaica i have a really hard time balancing the economic figures that are published with what i see goin on on the street.....i lean towards those who suggest that a very large part of the economy is unmeasured. </div></div>

[Q3210]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just as I thought ... nuttin nah gwhan.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks. </div></div>

... Usually economic growth is not usually equally dispersed in the economy ...

... So economic growth, can and does in many cases result in negative economic benefits to the poor ...
</div></div> </div></div>

is di same ting all over...caanda has the most consisten growth fo an G8 county....huge federal buget surplus....huge trade surplus...yet if you speak to the man onthe street nuttin nah gwaan fi dem too.


whenever i go to Jamaica i have a really hard time balancing the economic figures that are published with what i see goin on on the street.....i lean towards those who suggest that a very large part of the economy is unmeasured. </div></div>

Some of those in prosperity who write reports on the economy be they politicians or lay preachers think that the figures that are positive for them are positive for all, which is dishonest and ill-perceived to impress on the uneducated public in order to win back a term in power.

[evanovitch]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Was the capital develope fund created to develope the local communities?? NO. The same people who clammer so often to use funds not earmarked for for other purposes are the same ones that are as aggressively opposing the use of NIS funds to be loaned to small businesses. The latter is withinh the principles of the fund,but because it will give small business a filip.
..and you wonder why the small people don't trust them!! </div></div>

so u really saying that the receipts from an industry, which stripped soil from a locale, was negotiated wid no mention of any of it going towards doing something for said locale....yeah rite....an even doah dem seh dat this was an intent of the funds, u still say 'nay'...ooookay

an how NIS come eena dis fi use as example....

[RichD]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

when di bauxite compnies finish wid di land should the govt have the responsibility to redevelop it?


the companies still own the land and part of their obligation should be toreturnit to other useage

[evanovitch]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

Established in 1974, the CDF is funded from the bauxite levy and was set up with a clear mandate to reinvest some of the returns earned from the industry into communities located in the bauxite belt.



yep, there r instances that u can see where the land is refilled an used i believe for the herds owned by said companies...the issue is ,additionally, the stipulation re re investing some of the levy into the communities also

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when di bauxite compnies finish wid di land should the govt have the responsibility to redevelop it?


the companies still own the land and part of their obligation should be toreturnit to other useage </div></div>

The lands are actually owned by the government.
In the 70's the government took posession of all the lands, they paid the bauxite companies and lease them the lands. So the lands are the posession of the jamaica bauxite institute,but the companies have the responsibillity to recap it with topsoil,but there is no provision for any economic support for villages in the vicinity of the mines. The original process involved buying all the proerties and destroying the villages. This si how it went until in the 70's. So mining withih proximity of villages is a more recent phenomenon.
Incidentally the damages to property from aeral contaminants havenot even been easy tp get compensation for,much less.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Established in 1974, the CDF is funded from the bauxite levy and was set up with a clear mandate to reinvest some of the returns earned from the industry into communities located in the bauxite belt.



yep, there r instances that u can see where the land is refilled an used i believe for the herds owned by said companies...the issue is ,additionally, the stipulation re re investing some of the levy into the communities also </div></div>
..but the LEVY was not setbup to do community developement. It was actually set up to create equity between what was paid to the government and the commodity pric of bauxite and alumina on the international market.
The CDF is not the LEVY.

[evanovitch]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

so wi will argue about semantics....so di money no fi help di community fill di pothole cause of levy vs cdf, but di govament can use it fi prop up dem budget which primarily goes to interest payments on loans of which the majority of di initial loans eena private offshore accounts while di ress use fi build minista big house etc...gotcha [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

gawd forbid dat it should be used to help di people on a tangible as opposed to another misuse like di budget....dont stimulate GDP to afford budgetary funds cause dat GDP function is outside di perview of govament...ongle loan securing an paybak is [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

Where did I say the money sould not be used for anything?/
All I am saying is that using it to support the villages,and usssuing small business loans from NIS funds isequally important. Why is it then that the same people who are hollering for aid to the villages,using those funds are up in arms against the NIS/small business loans.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

evonV states so u really saying that the receipts from an industry, which stripped soil from a locale, was negotiated wid no mention of any of it going towards doing something for said locale....

Certainly, there were no provision in the agreements for any developement of the villages.
Other than to return top soil,nothing.In the case of villages, the only provision was to raise them,yes completely destroy them, including the cemetries.
..and this was the case in scores of villages,for many decades.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Established in 1974, the CDF is funded from the bauxite levy and was set up with a clear mandate to reinvest some of the returns earned from the industry into communities located in the bauxite belt.



yep, there r instances that u can see where the land is refilled an used i believe for the herds owned by said companies...the issue is ,additionally, the stipulation re re investing some of the levy into the communities also </div></div>
..but the LEVY was not setbup to do community developement. It was actually set up to create equity between what was paid to the government and the commodity pric of bauxite and alumina on the international market.
The CDF is not the LEVY. </div></div>

Written in the contracts of the Bauxite Mining Companies are provision to return the mined out lands to productivity, to curb environmental nuisances, etc, all or most of which they have ignored.

Since you are arguing so stridently about the exact wording of the Capital Development Fund answer this question was the NIS setup to aid Small or any business or was it setup to help pensioners who are @ this moment in Jamaica some of the worst off in the country?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff - according to Dr. Dudd - YES - the money was returned.

____________________


January 9, 2007
GUEST COLUMNIST
The Troubles of Sista P.
By ORLANDO PATTERSON
Kingston, Jamaica

The government, however, handled the revelation ineptly before returning the money, providing endless fodder for the media.
</div></div>

Did the GOJ/Sista P. or anyone in the PNP rerturn the money to Trafigura?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div> The PNP cannot transfer the money to Trafigura. If they do and the CCOC or whatever they are called, decides that they do not want to. ther is nothing the pNP can do aboiut it.
they have returned it from whoi they got it. Now the onus of Collin campbell to do what he wants with it.
You see it is not against the law for the company to give money to Mr.campbell,just as it was not against the law for either Mr campbell orTrafigura to give to th ePNP. The PNP returne dit without prejudice. they did not have to,because they werenot breaking any laws in recieving it. </div></div>

The Dutch Company broke their country's/Euro Laws law by contributing to political campaign in a foreign country. The PNP said it was a campaign contribution. In fact Sista P. in the outtaview with Orlando said as much.

My question is will she testify when the right time come?
</div></div>
So since when does the behavior of a company the responsibillity of others.
So if the government broke the laws would othersbe held responsible for it?? </div></div>

I just asked if she will testify to the OECD/Dutch Authorities that Trafigura gave her Party a Campaign Contribution.