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Re: Marable: On Manley, Jamaica *DELETED*
Walhalla,
As expected you jumped on the "sophisticated electorate" comment and totally misinterpreted it.
It is not just Jamaicans but the electorate, the voters in every country in which the United States through its various agencies such as the CIA and USAID sought to destabilize existing socialist governments or to undermine movements which opposed colonialism and imperialism.
The American(U.S.) electorate is supposedly sophisticated and educated yet back in the 60's they swallowed the lies that led to and continued the war against Vietnam.
In 1983 Ronalsd Reagan's administration told a total of 21 lies to justify the Grenada invasion and the allegedly sophisticated electorate swallowed those lies hook, line and sinker. Today we have the wars in the Middle East also based on lies which were widely disseminated by both government and the corporate media and again accepted on face value by a reputedly sophisticated electorate.
Today the destabilization programs, the undermininhg of unions and workers rights movements that oppose capitalism are much more difficult for the U.S to succeed at because of the web and the speed at which information can be spread and more importantly the speed at which CIA planted rumors and disinformation can be knocked down as is the case in Venezuela which has successfully fought off the U.S backed coup and other anti-Chavista propaganda.
Back in the pre-web 70's and 80's these techniques used by the CIA and USAID were very successful in Jamaica exactly because Jamaica had a high rate of illiteracy, few people read much other than the Gleaner and other pro-capitalist-anti-socialist newspapers and as I saw myself in the early 80's visiting Jamaica that rumors had far more strength than the truth and rumors tend to worsen as they are spread from mouth to mouth.
The Jamaicans of 1980 made judgements based on false assumptions as they were intended to just as people in the U.S make bad judgements based on false information spread from on high. This is not casting aspersions on the Jamaican people whom I love, this is a simple statement of historical fact.
Being fooled by agencies like the CIA is no disgrace. It happened in Italy and Greece post WWII and in MOST of the countries in which the CIA sought to stop or overthrow movements opposed to capitalism and U.S economic neo-colonialism in particular.
I believe that if Manley came upon the Jamaican social and political scene today that the CIA would not even attempt what they succeeded at back in 1980 given that the region as a whole is far more aware of what the USA/CIA is about and would not be so easily fooled nor deterred from changing from the capitalist form of economy that keeps Jamaica poor and deeply in debt for the forseeable future.
Venezuela is a very good example of what I mean.
Finally about your inability to see the forest for the trees, your fixation on your personal hard times and disregard of the realities of the Cold War.
The USA was and is in the business of making the world in general but the Western Hemisphere in particular safe for capitalism and neo-colonial exploitation through the IMF, World Bank etc .
In the 60's it tried to overthrow Cuba. In the 70's it overthrew Chile's elected government. In the 80's they overthrew Grenada's leftist government and the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua and killed hundreds of thousands in El Salvador and Guatemala in order to prevent the rise of leftist/worker's movements.
They were very active in Brazil, Argentina, Guyana, Suriname and supported the worst of the worst. They taught counter insurgency, they taught torture and sold the equipment to torture. At the time of Manley's removal, the CIA's largest command was in Kingston.
That's historical fact. I defy you to deny any of it.
For you to now say that the United States, in it's zeal to quash leftists movements throught the hemisphere, somehow decided to let the Jamaican political process play out by itself when so many other countries went hard left is, and I apologize in advance for using the term, foolishness.
Walhalla,
As expected you jumped on the "sophisticated electorate" comment and totally misinterpreted it.
It is not just Jamaicans but the electorate, the voters in every country in which the United States through its various agencies such as the CIA and USAID sought to destabilize existing socialist governments or to undermine movements which opposed colonialism and imperialism.
The American(U.S.) electorate is supposedly sophisticated and educated yet back in the 60's they swallowed the lies that led to and continued the war against Vietnam.
In 1983 Ronalsd Reagan's administration told a total of 21 lies to justify the Grenada invasion and the allegedly sophisticated electorate swallowed those lies hook, line and sinker. Today we have the wars in the Middle East also based on lies which were widely disseminated by both government and the corporate media and again accepted on face value by a reputedly sophisticated electorate.
Today the destabilization programs, the undermininhg of unions and workers rights movements that oppose capitalism are much more difficult for the U.S to succeed at because of the web and the speed at which information can be spread and more importantly the speed at which CIA planted rumors and disinformation can be knocked down as is the case in Venezuela which has successfully fought off the U.S backed coup and other anti-Chavista propaganda.
Back in the pre-web 70's and 80's these techniques used by the CIA and USAID were very successful in Jamaica exactly because Jamaica had a high rate of illiteracy, few people read much other than the Gleaner and other pro-capitalist-anti-socialist newspapers and as I saw myself in the early 80's visiting Jamaica that rumors had far more strength than the truth and rumors tend to worsen as they are spread from mouth to mouth.
The Jamaicans of 1980 made judgements based on false assumptions as they were intended to just as people in the U.S make bad judgements based on false information spread from on high. This is not casting aspersions on the Jamaican people whom I love, this is a simple statement of historical fact.
Being fooled by agencies like the CIA is no disgrace. It happened in Italy and Greece post WWII and in MOST of the countries in which the CIA sought to stop or overthrow movements opposed to capitalism and U.S economic neo-colonialism in particular.
I believe that if Manley came upon the Jamaican social and political scene today that the CIA would not even attempt what they succeeded at back in 1980 given that the region as a whole is far more aware of what the USA/CIA is about and would not be so easily fooled nor deterred from changing from the capitalist form of economy that keeps Jamaica poor and deeply in debt for the forseeable future.
Venezuela is a very good example of what I mean.
Finally about your inability to see the forest for the trees, your fixation on your personal hard times and disregard of the realities of the Cold War.
The USA was and is in the business of making the world in general but the Western Hemisphere in particular safe for capitalism and neo-colonial exploitation through the IMF, World Bank etc .
In the 60's it tried to overthrow Cuba. In the 70's it overthrew Chile's elected government. In the 80's they overthrew Grenada's leftist government and the Sandinista revolution in Nicaragua and killed hundreds of thousands in El Salvador and Guatemala in order to prevent the rise of leftist/worker's movements.
They were very active in Brazil, Argentina, Guyana, Suriname and supported the worst of the worst. They taught counter insurgency, they taught torture and sold the equipment to torture. At the time of Manley's removal, the CIA's largest command was in Kingston.
That's historical fact. I defy you to deny any of it.
For you to now say that the United States, in it's zeal to quash leftists movements throught the hemisphere, somehow decided to let the Jamaican political process play out by itself when so many other countries went hard left is, and I apologize in advance for using the term, foolishness.
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