There can be no dissidents ..

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the after effects of the Black Power movement of the 60s in the USA had some negative influence on minorities in that time in Jamaica, that Dr. Dudd may be referring to. </div></div>
This was not just soem'negative influence',because in both einstances a state of emergency was called, the national reserve was brought out and curfew and cordon was delclared and most of the down town areas were cordonned and searched.
many people were also locked up at UP Park camp too. So those instances were not just negative influences. they were our right race riots,the likes of which Jamaica has not seen since...and i hope we never see it again.
It just happen to be about the same time,but It was actually cause by thegeneral dis-satisfaction with the whole social climate of the time.
The racial tension was palpable how the tension was high.
Prior to those racial uprising,blacks could not use many hotel facillities,even years after the Myrtle Bank pool event.
The first open uprising was supposed to be a reaction to the alleged kicking of a black worker by a Chinese woman in the Coronation bakery don at the market.
It wasn't about what was happenning in the USA,because although blacks could not get loans at the banks,Jamaicans tend to place the blame on those they comein contact with.
My opinion about that is , i don't think that the jamaicns identified with the Us civil rights action then. I don't know about now,but it all seem so far and unreal. It was difficult for people to relate.
One distinct example was that the riots were not directed at the whites,which would be more likely,neither was it directed at Indians.
Many probably did not even know that they were black [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]
As a result it was the Chinese that took the brunt of the destruction,because they were the most exposed to the generan population,due to their retail corbershops.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check the gleaner archives my good man.
calling my post a lie will not be enough.
What do you know as i said it affected my family.
I had to ferry them up to barbican as a youth,not even old enough to have a liscence at the time. </div></div>

I say you are lying you come with the proof!
You are making false accusations Herr Gobbles
You can remember whah Mernlie she inna the 70s but you caan remember some obscure events that was supposed to have taken place in the 60s?
Be real!
</div></div>
Keep enjoying the bliss of your enclosed mind.

[johnnycakes]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

And to get back to the point (which I have made several times) ...the problem is the lack of democracy in the so-called Jamaican democracy.

If Ms. Hanna can be put up as a candidate without even being a member of the party which she will work for, you do not have a democracy.

If the people whom she will represent have no say AT ALL in who will be the
to be their representative, you do not have a democracy.

If the two parties do nothing but maintain the status quo, (the way things are now) when the people are clamoring for a change for the better, you do not have a democracy.

If an electorate, (those who vote in a representative) cannot sit down, on a regular basis and TELL their representative what to work and vote for you do not have a democracy.

Further if there is no means to REMOVE that representative if he/she does not do what the electorate tells them to do, you do not have a democracy.

If the winner of an election is largely elected due to the amount of money he or she can spend on campaign ads, you do not have a democracy.

If your idea of a democracy is spending 30 seconds in the voting booth every few years, you have no idea what a democracy is.

If you think that the twin capitalist parties, the PNP and the JLP have the interests of the poor and working Jamaican at the top of their lists, you are a fool.

If you keep voting for the same parties again and again and expect a different result, you're stupid. (Thanks to Tuff Gong and Albert Einstein)

If you argue about whether the PNP or the JLP are either to blame for all of Jamaica's woes or that either will be the saviour, you're wasting you're breath.
Both are to blame and neither can or will correct the problems of poverty, crime and underdevelopment. That's not what they are about in case 45 years of history hasn't shown you that fact.

Jamaica needs a new and more democratic electoral system.

One in which the electorate, the voters themselves nominate the candidates.
That is democracy.

One where there are regular accountability sessions in which those elected must answer questions from those who voted them in, in which they can be advised, praised, criticised and even removed for failure to follow the wishes of the voters.
That is democracy.

One in which parties have no place since all they do is corrupt the process by ruling from the top. People of like minds can cobble together the programs and policies of a functional government without the influence of the rich and powerful party high-ups and the wralthy interests to whom they are beholden.

That would be democracy


To cling to the same old parties with the same old policies is to keep things as they are.
If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you still get evil in case you hadn't noticed.

I'm not sure how referenda work inna jamaica but it would seem that the first order of business in setting up a new democratic movement would be to petition the government to set up an electoral system on the town level (at first then on to Parish level if successful) in which the assembled electorate could nominate their own candidates for representative with or without parties being allowed to participate. The people dem would be nominating individuals whom they know and trust. (It would not be business as usual with the parties nominating people THEY know and trust to do their bidding).
The people could nominate as few or as many people as they wanted. All campaign funds would be pooled and only combined postings of all the candidates pictures, backgrounds, associations and platforms would be allowed to make it equal and honest.

These are just a few ideas. They are not the only way to go and there will be ways to accomplish the same goals in that are more suited to Jamaica but there must be a start towards change and not just the same old back and forth about how bad the PNP and JLP were or are.

Unless, of course you would like things to be as they were or are.

Stop the nonsense and name-calling.

Do something constructive, FOR A CHANGE.

suck teeth!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check the gleaner archives my good man.
calling my post a lie will not be enough.
What do you know as i said it affected my family.
I had to ferry them up to barbican as a youth,not even old enough to have a liscence at the time. </div></div>

I say you are lying you come with the proof!
You are making false accusations Herr Gobbles
You can remember whah Mernlie she inna the 70s but you caan remember some obscure events that was supposed to have taken place in the 60s?
Be real!
</div></div>
Keep enjoying the bliss of your enclosed mind. </div></div>

Herr Gobbles what you make a bunch of statements that you cannot substantiate. Trying to set Jamaicans up against themselves over a PNP Party matter that was bungled by the Party Leader and you what claim I have a closed mind?

Look fool-fool, there are other things better than arguing with semi-literate Spin-Doctors.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check the gleaner archives my good man.
calling my post a lie will not be enough.
What do you know as i said it affected my family.
I had to ferry them up to barbican as a youth,not even old enough to have a liscence at the time. </div></div>

I say you are lying you come with the proof!
You are making false accusations Herr Gobbles
You can remember whah Mernlie she inna the 70s but you caan remember some obscure events that was supposed to have taken place in the 60s?
Be real!
</div></div>
Keep enjoying the bliss of your enclosed mind. </div></div>

Herr Gobbles what you make a bunch of statements that you cannot substantiate. Trying to set Jamaicans up against themselves over a PNP Party matter that was bungled by the Party Leader and you what claim I have a closed mind?

Look fool-fool, there are other things better than arguing with semi-literate Spin-Doctors.
</div></div>
You cN'T SUBSTANTIATE THEM BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO open your eyes to real jamaican history.
The history of a country is not totally contained in history books.
It is sometimes as in this case recorded in the news paper of the time of th eevents.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You cN'T SUBSTANTIATE THEM BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO open your eyes to real jamaican history.
The history of a country is not totally contained in history books.
It is sometimes as in this case recorded in the news paper of the time of th eevents. </div></div>

Fool-fool come wid di proof nuh man?

[johnnycakes]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

Herr Gobbles what you make a bunch of statements that you cannot substantiate. Trying to set Jamaicans up against themselves over a PNP Party matter that was bungled by the Party Leader and you what claim I have a closed mind?

Look fool-fool, there are other things better than arguing with semi-literate Spin-Doctors.
_______________________

The name is spelled Goebbels.
Why are you two wasting your time and energies arguing about which party is the lesser of two evils?
At one time or another, you have both admitted that neither party has solutions to the Jamaica's epidemic crime, poverty, and corruption.

I take it that you do not consider democracy to be the answer, that either one or both of the two parties that have made such a mess of the country can or will be reformed and will straighten things out.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The name is spelled Goebbels</div></div>

Yo!
I need no lessons from you I want it to read Herr Gobbles, if you had taken the time to read the post you would have seen that!

So with that out of the way can we get Herr Gobbles to provide the evidence of?
1. Plantocracy in Jamaica
2. the destruction of the Chinese livelihood in the 60s
3. that is was only the mis-educated Middle Class that left Jamaica in the 70s and what was the mis-education
4. the involvement of the JLP in this debacle of the choice of candidates for S.E. St. Ann.

either he does or he is boldface liar.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The name is spelled Goebbels</div></div>

Yo!
I need no lessons from you I want it to read Herr Gobbles, if you had taken the time to read the post you would have seen that!

So with that out of the way can we get Herr Gobbles to provide the evidence of?
1. Plantocracy in Jamaica
2. the destruction of the Chinese livelihood in the 60s
3. that is was only the mis-educated Middle Class that left Jamaica in the 70s and what was the mis-education
4. the involvement of the JLP in this debacle of the choice of candidates for S.E. St. Ann.

either he does or he is boldface liar.
</div></div>
You are such a coward.
you come here under the cover of annonomity and call people names. yet you are so ignorant of the history you are supposed to be aware of.
All of what I posted there are facts.
Wh is it that you are the only one who found this to be a lie?
You know why,becausse you are not what you claim to be.Not that it matters,because the drivel you post here is not that important to me.
The fact is that you have not contributed one iota of usefull information since you have been posting here.
as a matter of fact your only achievement here is to garner the dubious record of being the most suspended member in the history of these boards.
Now you are proving to be nothing but a cheap political hack.
Now what is a lie about that?

[Dyoll_73]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... can we get Herr Gobbles to provide the evidence of?
1. Plantocracy in Jamaica
2. the destruction of the Chinese livelihood in the 60s
3. that is was only the mis-educated Middle Class that left Jamaica in the 70s and what was the mis-education
4. the involvement of the JLP in this debacle of the choice of candidates for S.E. St. Ann.</div></div>

I think these are fair questions directed to the good 'doctor.' He shouldn't have any difficulty substantiating his claims.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are such a coward.
you come here under the cover of annonomity and call people names. yet you are so ignorant of the history you are supposed to be aware of.
All of what I posted there are facts.
Wh is it that you are the only one who found this to be a lie?</div></div>

Herr Doctor, it seems other members have taken issue with what you have said?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... can we get Herr Gobbles to provide the evidence of?
1. Plantocracy in Jamaica
2. the destruction of the Chinese livelihood in the 60s
3. that is was only the mis-educated Middle Class that left Jamaica in the 70s and what was the mis-education
4. the involvement of the JLP in this debacle of the choice of candidates for S.E. St. Ann.</div></div>

I think these are fair questions directed to the good 'doctor.' He shouldn't have any difficulty substantiating his claims. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know why,becausse you are not what you claim to be.Not that it matters,because the drivel you post here is not that important to me.</div></div>

Nothing is, not even your own posts seems to be important to you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is that you have not contributed one iota of usefull information since you have been posting here.
as a matter of fact your only achievement here is to garner the dubious record of being the most suspended member in the history of these boards.</div></div>

LOL....Yes I know when unno caan deal fair unno run goh unda the unno frens the Mods frack tail and report mi!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you are proving to be nothing but a cheap political hack.
Now what is a lie about that? </div></div>

I think you are an even cheaper political hack because you are willing to prostitute your the little knowledge that you pretend to posses, to sell out, blacklist and hunt your Jamaican brothers and sisters out of existence based on their colour, race and what they have for little or nothing.
Worse you don't even want the rest of the poor black ones, who cannot run wheh like you and your friends have done, to be educated.

Little wonder that your only other backer is another discredited, rumor mongering, Armchair-Socialitsa, who also does not want Free to Parents Tuition for Jamaicans, lest they be educated enough not to buy into unno war on Jamaicans.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are such a coward.
you come here under the cover of annonomity and call people names. yet you are so ignorant of the history you are supposed to be aware of.
All of what I posted there are facts.
Wh is it that you are the only one who found this to be a lie?</div></div>

Herr Doctor, it seems other members have taken issue with what you have said?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... can we get Herr Gobbles to provide the evidence of?
1. Plantocracy in Jamaica
2. the destruction of the Chinese livelihood in the 60s
3. that is was only the mis-educated Middle Class that left Jamaica in the 70s and what was the mis-education
4. the involvement of the JLP in this debacle of the choice of candidates for S.E. St. Ann.</div></div>

I think these are fair questions directed to the good 'doctor.' He shouldn't have any difficulty substantiating his claims. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You know why,becausse you are not what you claim to be.Not that it matters,because the drivel you post here is not that important to me.</div></div>

Nothing is, not even your own posts seems to be important to you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact is that you have not contributed one iota of usefull information since you have been posting here.
as a matter of fact your only achievement here is to garner the dubious record of being the most suspended member in the history of these boards.</div></div>

LOL....Yes I know when unno caan deal fair unno run goh unda the unno frens the Mods frack tail and report mi!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you are proving to be nothing but a cheap political hack.
Now what is a lie about that? </div></div>

I think you are an even cheaper political hack because you are willing to prostitute your the little knowledge that you pretend to posses, to sell out, blacklist and hunt your Jamaican brothers and sisters out of existence based on their colour, race and what they have for little or nothing.
Worse you don't even want the rest of the poor black ones, who cannot run wheh like you and your friends have done, to be educated.

Little wonder that your only other backer is another discredited, rumor mongering, Armchair-Socialitsa, who also does not want Free to Parents Tuition for Jamaicans, lest they be educated enough not to buy into unno war on Jamaicans.
</div></div>
taking issue and refuting it is not one and the same.
In adition I have known Dyolls political leaning for years. At least he did not come here declaring to be a member of one political party,while his utterances suggest the opposite.
He has always been a supporter of the JLp.
I have nothing against that. As a matter of fact I respect that.
One more thing, I have no backers here.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Herr Gobbles what you make a bunch of statements that you cannot substantiate. Trying to set Jamaicans up against themselves over a PNP Party matter that was bungled by the Party Leader and you what claim I have a closed mind?

Look fool-fool, there are other things better than arguing with semi-literate Spin-Doctors.
_______________________

The name is spelled Goebbels.
Why are you two wasting your time and energies arguing about which party is the lesser of two evils?
At one time or another, you have both admitted that neither party has solutions to the Jamaica's epidemic crime, poverty, and corruption.

I take it that you do not consider democracy to be the answer, that either one or both of the two parties that have made such a mess of the country can or will be reformed and will straighten things out. </div></div>
I am not suggesting that any party is any better that the other.
I am saying that both political parties are in collusion with the plantocrats to keep the decendants of slaves as servants and no more in the economy.
What I am suggeating as the solution as for the cartel that control the country by way of the political parties to be broken. i am suggesting that educated black jamaicans use their skills to create a level playing field as in equal opportunity for all in every aspect of the economy.
Not as it is now where all the Jamaican made owner/executives,are of shades lighter than Mr Lee Chin.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
taking issue and refuting it is not one and the same.
In adition I have known Dyolls political leaning for years. At least he did not come here declaring to be a member of one political party,while his utterances suggest the opposite.
He has always been a supporter of the JLp.
I have nothing against that. As a matter of fact I respect that.
One more thing, I have no backers here.
</div></div>

You are talking nonsense, the member is seeking to deterimine the same thing that I am, namely:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... can we get Herr Gobbles to provide the evidence of?
1. Plantocracy in Jamaica
2. the destruction of the Chinese livelihood in the 60s
3. that is was only the mis-educated Middle Class that left Jamaica in the 70s and what was the mis-education
4. the involvement of the JLP in this debacle of the choice of candidates for S.E. St. Ann.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In adition I have known Dyolls political leaning for years. At least he did not come here declaring to be a member of one political party,while his utterances suggest the opposite.
He has always been a supporter of the JLp.</div></div>

Wait, you know more than Dyoll's political leanings I care to know?

I don't know what being a supporter of one Political Party or the other have to do with it, but let me say this unlike most other members, when the argument about Party Political support has come up, I have been first and foremost about my support of the PNP and my disappointment with the Leadership since the 70s.

But you just prove my point you have been in the forefront of continuing the division of Jamaicans according to race, shade, status and Party support.... so you are not acting out of your skin!

[johnnycakes]

Re: There can be no dissidents ..

Tuff Gong : "I don't know what being a supporter of one Political Party or the other have to do with it, but let me say this unlike most other members, when the argument about Party Political support has come up, I have been first and foremost about my support of the PNP and my disappointment with the Leadership since the 70s."


So Tuffy, you've supported the PNP for 35 years or so and have continually been disappointed?;

Why do you stay with them ?
What hope have you that they will not keep going on as they have in maintaining a failed nation?