EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dyoll_73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">, I would have thought you were Dr Dudd (aka Joemaican).</div></div>
You are doing a disservice to Dr. Dudd and insulting Jomaican.
I strongly doubt that that one is the alter ego of the other.

[bee_bop]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<span style="color: #990000">At a risk of appearing to be against someone, I believe it is Dr. Dudd... </span> [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/throwstone.gif[/img]

[SmoothOperator]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

DoNotVote is a regular on the jamaica-star.com forums. There are or were entire threads there dedicated to mercilessly bashing Eddie Seaga who was Prime Minister of Jamaica for 8 years almost 20 years ago. DoNotVote is usually silent though on the impact of the policies of Michael Manley and PJ Patterson who ruled over Jamaica for 25+ years. Go figure.

[bee_bop]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

DoNotVote said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">October 25, 1983 was the day of the American armed assault on Grenada. Grenada, is an even smaller and poorer Caribbean country than Jamaica. The invaders killed hundreds claiming they went in to "rescue" American students. The Jamaican Prime Minister at the time, Edward Seaga, a close friend of the US President Ronald Reagan, sent in Jamaican troops "to help" his American compatriot. Only a couple of other Caribbean countries followed Seaga’s example. </div></div>

<span style="color: #660000">It seems that even Castro himself had decided to give up Greneda as a lost cause on the death of Prime Minister Maurice Bishop. Castro apparently had seen Mr. Bishop as the most likley candidate to lead Greneda into communism, since he was popular, and rational. With Maurice's death, Castro saw Greneda's situation as hopeless. He ordered the reservists on the Spice Island to stand down, and only gave them orders to defend themselves, if necessary(Global Policy Forum, para 9).
An American military officer stated that "if this was the Cuban reservists' who his men were fighting then he would fear the regular Cuban army." This was not the Cuban army however, causing the American army so much trouble, it was the Grenedian army, armed and trained with the help of Cuba, fighting for their home turf(Global Policy Forum, para 21).
The U.S. seemed to have used the Jamaica Defence Force(JDF) as part of a diplomatic effort to internationalize the invasion, make it more palatable to the rest of the world, who could have viewed it as neo-imperialism. The Jamaica Regiments are really not much more than what the British would consider a territorial force(like the Bermuda Regiment), or as Americans would regard as a National Guard. In other words, it was not meant for deployment outside of Jamaica, even though it was also involved in the subduing of the Jamaat al Muslimeen in Trinidad and Tobago, and also followed American forces into Haiti, in one of the many occupations of Haiti, by the U.S., since the beginning of the twentieth century.

Reference:
Zunes S., (October 2003). The U.S. invasion of Greneda: A twenty year retrospective. Global Policy Forum. Retrieved on December 31 2007 from http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/h.../10grenada.htm
</span>

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?



<span style='font-size: 14pt'>EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?
</span>Part 2

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The Prologue


In the post 2nd World War years,Jamaica administered by the English was the most important of their Caribbean colonies. Its people made up of over 90% people of African origin, followed by Chinese and Indians whose foreparents were indentured servants brought there by the English in the mid 1800's.The remainder made up of Middle-Easterners and sitting pretty on top of this ethnic pyramid are the relative handful of people whose foreparents were slavers from the UK.

This social pyramid was rigidly stratified typically along racial and colour lines. And wealth and poverty also rigidly followed suit. In the post-war years things were about to change -not the pyramid but the outside dominance of the country. Amongst the smattering of Americans who re-located to Jamaica were the Seagas. And as whites,naturally they were wealthy. but they symbolised the change that was about to take place.The UK weakened by the first and especially the 2nd World War was at the mercy of the Americans who always had their hawkish eyes on the main Caribbean prize - Jamaica. So they set to work and the British in no position to "fight" allowed the American take-over with only minimum private complaints.

The Americans at first allowed the British administrative "system" and colonial connections to continue but they wanted to have economic dominance. This could not be done without one of the two main political parties whose establishment was "gently guided" by the British behind the scenes. For whatever reason the US targetted the JLP. By the 50's the Seagas ,still American citizens sent their son Edward Seaga (who was born in the US) to Harvard,that "Ivy League" establishment for "leaders"- from Secret Service to Politicians. It was whilst here that Seaga "became interested" in Jamaican politics. He did not jump in straight away. No. As a privileged white with money and influence, he set himself up as as a record producer of poplar dance music which most interestingly made him shoot to "fame" amongst ordinary Kingston people whose sons and daughters were trying to escape the poverty by using their talents to sing.It was here that Edward Seaga used his "popularity" as a music producer to ingratiate himself with poor Jamaicans.

Whether this was part of a deliberate American plan for a "palace coup" against the British, only top secret archives in Washington and London could reveal the truth of this. But Seaga's history would point in the direction that he was in the service of the United States - the country of his birth. One clear outward sign of this "palace coup" by the Americans against the British is that to this day, while Edward Seaga is celebrated by all kinds of American institutions, the British have kept a stony, almost disdainful silence about him.Why? He was not "their man". And could not be, especially since he had made the public suggestion that Jamaica should become an "associate state" of the USA. Nothing could be clearer. It was regrettable that in the post-war years Jamaica did not produce any genuine political leaders schooled in the organisation and struggle of the Jamaican people and guided by any philosophical outlook. Alexander Bustamante was a money-lender who being educated, appointed himself spokesman for striking workers and Norman Manley (his cousin) a lawyer was Bustamante's attorney who argued in the law courts for his release after the British had jailed him, some would say deliberately to increase his popularity amongst poor masses, knowing that "Busta" could be of service to them in the future. Which of course is precisely what happened.

The PNP and JLP formed out of workers unions led by two non-political persons Bustamante the money-lender and Norman Manley the lawyer. The Jamaican masses were ready but without patriotic political leaders. These two non-politicos sealed the fate of Jamaica from then onwards. Any serious political forces to rally the masses, were sidelined and so the politicisation of Jamaicans died- "stillbirth". The PNP and JLP from their inception were not anti-colonial or anti-imperialist parties like the serious attempt by Garvey decades before with the People's Political Party (the first and only truly political party for Jamaicans to date).

It was in this context and de-politiced climate that Edward Seaga being white, educated and "popular" from his record-producing made his easy and rapid rise into Jamaican public life. Once more another non-political character. But even worse. He had no Jamaican connections whatsoever and had nothing to do with any struggles of the suffering Jamaicans for their rights. The American joined the JLP and was soon the MP for West Kingston. During this time trouble was brewing. Not in Jamaica but 90 miles north. Yes, Cuba that poverty-stricken playground for the American rich and the Mafia. A place where many Jamaicans had gone to work in the hot sun in canefields along with their Cuban neighbours. Here is a classic American colony with a classic American puppet ruled American-style with an iron fist. Like in post- war Jamaica, Cubans were also demanding a proper life. Fortunately for them, they gave rise to two leaders one a Cuban, the other Argentinian who unlike our Bustamante and Norman Manley were political and actually engaged and led the struggles of the poor. Fidel Castro and Che Guevara. The political party they founded was anti-colonial and anti-imperialist.

(TO BE CONTINUED) </span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?


<span style='font-family: Arial Black'>LOL</span>....!

I tell you the nonsense that some people write.
Again Eddie Blinds was Prime Minister for less than 8 years, he helped to pull Jamaica out of the PNP created and Cuban aided muck and mire that was our certain faith.

That he was not Superman we now known because the PNP was put back in 89 to finish what they started and finished they did.
We became the murder capital of the world and sit @ or near the bottom of every bad stats in terms of human development and civilized progress.

The worse thing is that Eddie himself due to the tribal nature of Jamaican politicks gave tacit support to the last PNP Government led by Sistah P@@.

<span style='font-family: Arial Black'>dis aggoh continue</span>.......

[Wahalla]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?
</span>Part 2

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>The Prologue


In the post 2nd World War years,Jamaica administered by the English was the most important of their Caribbean colonies (Wahalla: Sorry, disagree T&T was oil the reason.. ). Its people made up of over 90% people of African origin, followed by Chinese and Indians whose foreparents were indentured servants brought there by the English in the mid 1800's.The remainder made up of Middle-Easterners and sitting pretty on top of this ethnic pyramid are the relative handful of people whose foreparents were slavers from the UK.

Wahalla: So us Taino has not a look in ?????

This social pyramid was rigidly stratified typically along racial and colour lines.

Wahalla: There was social movement in Jamaica And wealth and poverty also rigidly followed suit. In the post-war years things were about to change -not the pyramid but the outside dominance of the country. Amongst the smattering of Americans who re-located to Jamaica were the Seagas. And as whites,naturally they were wealthy. but they symbolised the change that was about to take place.The UK weakened by the first and especially the 2nd World War was at the mercy of the Americans who always had their hawkish eyes on the main Caribbean prize - Jamaica.

Wahalla: Given that the Jamaica had no oil, given that the US policy was so rascist, given that there was no military imperative for the US to worry about, given that the US already had effective control of the Puerto Rico, given that the US had military bases in Jamaica... given that the Jamaicans burnt a couple service men during WWII, given that the US gave up their bases in Jamaica after WWII and kept TTs.. Cant see how this assettion is credible ??? So they set to work and the British in no position to "fight" allowed the American take-over with only minimum private complaints.

The Americans at first allowed the British administrative "system" and colonial connections to continue but they wanted to have economic dominance. This could not be done without one of the two main political parties whose establishment was "gently guided" by the British behind the scenes. For whatever reason the US targetted the JLP. By the 50's the Seagas ,still American citizens sent their son Edward Seaga (who was born in the US) to Harvard, Wahalla: And there I was thinking Seaga went to to Howard that "Ivy League" establishment for "leaders"- from Secret Service to Politicians. It was whilst here that Seaga "became interested" in Jamaican politics. He did not jump in straight away. No. As a privileged white with money and influence, he set himself up as as a record producer of poplar dance music which most interestingly made him shoot to "fame" amongst ordinary Kingston people whose sons and daughters were trying to escape the poverty by using their talents to sing.It was here that Edward Seaga used his "popularity" as a music producer to ingratiate himself with poor Jamaicans.

Whether this was part of a deliberate American plan for a "palace coup" against the British, only top secret archives in Washington and London could reveal the truth of this.

Wahalla: Given the fact that post WWII the major issue of the US was the confrontation of a hawkish Soviet Union, And given the fact that Jamaica and the Caribean was seen as part of the US sphere of influence there was no coup.. As part of the agreement and openly stated aims of US policy was to go rollup the British empire opening its markets up to US products...Look at the memoranda made during WWII from Yalta to Tehran to substantiate

But Seaga's history would point in the direction that he was in the service of the United States

Wahalla: Please tell us of this history ???? And was Edna Manley predisposed to the British ???? - the country of his birth. One clear outward sign of this "palace coup" by the Americans against the British is that to this day, while Edward Seaga is celebrated by all kinds of American institutions, the British have kept a stony, almost disdainful silence about him.Why? He was not "their man". And could not be, especially since he had made the public suggestion that Jamaica should become an "associate state" of the USA. Nothing could be clearer. It was regrettable that in the post-war years Jamaica did not produce any genuine political leaders schooled in the organisation and struggle of the Jamaican people and guided by any philosophical outlook. Alexander Bustamante was a money-lender who being educated, Wahalla: Busta Educated ???????? appointed himself spokesman for striking workers and Norman Manley (his cousin) a lawyer was Bustamante's attorney who argued in the law courts for his release after the British had jailed him, some would say deliberately to increase his popularity amongst poor masses, knowing that "Busta" could be of service to them in the future. Which of course is precisely what happened.

The PNP and JLP formed out of workers unions led by two non-political persons Bustamante the money-lender and Norman Manley the lawyer.

Wahalla: Norman Manley Non Poltical ????????? The Jamaican masses were ready but without patriotic political leaders. These two non-politicos sealed the fate of Jamaica from then onwards. Any serious political forces to rally the masses, were sidelined and so the politicisation of Jamaicans died- "stillbirth". The PNP and JLP from their inception were not anti-colonial or anti-imperialist parties like the serious attempt by Garvey decades before with the People's Political Party (the first and only truly political party for Jamaicans to date).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wahalla: You may not like their poltics but the JLPand PNP are poltical parties.. The PPP could never compete even given national suferage </div></div>

It was in this context and de-politiced climate that Edward Seaga being white, educated and "popular" from his record-producing made his easy and rapid rise into Jamaican public life. Once more another non-political character. But even worse. He had no Jamaican connections whatsoever and had nothing to do with any struggles of the suffering Jamaicans for their rights.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wahalla Given that the man grew up in Jamaica, from 7 months till 17 hardly think that is no connection.. Given that he did some of the earliest sociological studies of the Jamaican poor that are still quoted. Given that his policies were the most effective at attempting to alivaite policies.. Given that the idea of the festival was his, givne that he championed the ideas of the Jamaican Insittute and other fundamental cultural phenomena that is hardly true.. Also since being a musical producer is spat out as a mark of cain.. Then the same mark etendat ot PJ, the manager of Toots at one point...</div></div> The American joined the JLP and was soon the MP for West Kingston. During this time trouble was brewing. Not in Jamaica but 90 miles north. Yes, Cuba that poverty-stricken playground for the American rich and the Mafia. A place where many Jamaicans had gone to work in the hot sun in canefields along with their Cuban neighbours. Here is a classic American colony with a classic American puppet ruled American-style with an iron fist. Like in post- war Jamaica, Cubans were also demanding a proper life. Fortunately for them, they gave rise to two leaders one a Cuban, the other Argentinian who unlike our Bustamante and Norman Manley were political and actually engaged and led the struggles of the poor. Fidel Castro and Che Guevara. The political party they founded was anti-colonial and anti-imperialist.

Wahalla: Lets see mi Primo Fidel, Son and Grand son of plantation owners....Che or Tarzan as described by Nasser.. The man who dumped the black ooman he was sexing up the day his side won.....

(TO BE CONTINUED) </span> </div></div>

I have no personal liking for Seaga....I would never ever vote for the JLP while he was in power.. He has many faults, he is many things.. I have never doubted that his beleifs are contratry to mine but painting him as some stooge of america does not hold.. Every one seems to forget that he stood up to Reagan economics and refused a mass privitisation, that was done by the socialists...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have no personal liking for Seaga....I would never ever vote for the JLP while he was in power.. He has many faults, he is many things.. I have never doubted that his beleifs are contratry to mine but painting him as some stooge of america does not hold.. Every one seems to forget that he stood up to Reagan economics and refused a mass privitisation, that was done by the socialists... </div></div>

In my book the USA does not even figure in this discussion. It was the PNP under Menlie-The-Younger who dragged us into the Cold War.
It was the PNP that brought State Terror to the Jamaican neighbourhoods.
It was the PNP who first brought the IMF packages to Jamaica.
Our problem was created locally and exported by the PNP.

As for not liking Eddie Blinds personally I am PNP supporter and it goes without saying there is no love lost between us, but Jamaicans must tell the truth, irrespective of what camp it falls in.
People who advocate for Citizens not voting in Elections are $cums of the earth in my book, unless of course they live in Pakistan where a vote would not matter anyway.

[Wardob]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

MAYBE HIS FRIEND IN GRENADA WILL FIND THIS MORE INTERETSTING, than his garbage.


Ian Boyne, Contributor

NO POLITICAL leader in the history of Jamaica has done more to advance the culture of black people than Edward Phillip George Seaga.

That the Institute of Jamaica will tomorrow induct him as a Fellow is not only fitting, but overdue.

On the eve of this important induction it is appropriate to assess and celebrate Edward Seaga's contribution to Jamaica's culture and its African retentions. Perhaps now that he is out of the political fray, we can evaluate him more dispassionately and with a greater degree of analytical incisiveness. (For the record, I state that while he was Opposition Leader I wrote several articles blowing the whistle on those who were demonising him and pointing to his strengths.)

If you look at the sheer record of cultural institutions established and initiatives taken to promote Jamaican culture, no Jamaican political leader equals his record of achievements. Just do the math. But Seaga's contribution to Jamaican culture goes way beyond the statistics. I say boldly that if we see race outside the narrow confines of pigmentation and ethnicity, then Eddie Seaga's credentials as a black nationalist are unchangeable.

There are the cynics, of course, who say that Seaga merely exploited Jamaican culture; that he had and has no real interest in the Jamaican masses; it was only that he found them serviceable in his unquenchable thirst for power and Messianism. The cynics say that he learnt the people's culture in order to "fool them up" and dominate them. He went to live on Salt Lane so he could understand the people and win their affection on his way to winning the West Kingston seat.

CONTRIBUTION TO CULTURE

Any idiot can question a person's motives. Cynicism can be the trademark of the intellectually indolent. Talk to cultural nationalist Professor Rex Nettleford, the country's most esteemed cultural scholar and one of the most distinguished intellectuals of the developing world (and no Labourite!) about the contribution of Edward Seaga to Jamaican culture.

The demonisation of Edward Seaga, plus his own personality weaknesses and many blunders, have blinkered many persons to his enormous passion for the culture of Africa and Jamaica. Contrary to the perception of many, Seaga is no elitist. It was an unforgivable load of propaganda and mischief to say he despised black people. That 'black Scandal Bag' propaganda which was effectively used against him was a tragic and most regrettable part of our history, for which he should receive a full apology, however belatedly.

Edward Seaga has more respect and regard for black people than many of his political opponents. He understands black people far more than many black people understand themselves and certainly more than most politicians.

When black people's African-based religions were despised and demonised, Edward Seaga documented and celebrated them. In a Christian fundamentalist country heavily influenced by Euro-American conservative Christianity, he was bold enough to have a revival table at Jamaica House, leading to the charge that he had brought obeah to the centre of power and had invoked God's wrath upon Jamaica.

He had a respect for and an appreciation of Afro-Jamaican religions which has not been shared by many of those who dared to question his respect for black people. Not to mention his sophisticated grasp of the power and meaning of religious symbolism in people's lives. He has never displayed the arrogant contempt for religious rituals, particular of an African variety, so common among so-called enlightened white scholars.

PROMOTING CULTURE

His promotion of Jamaica Festival as well as the establishment of a week-long celebration of Jamaican heritage, National Heritage Week, culminating in a National Heroes Day shows the depth of the commitment he has had toward the promotion of Jamaican culture. In 1967, he established the Jamaica Journal to document, celebrate and eulogise Jamaican culture.

It was he who brought back the remains of the world-renowned Jamaican black nationalist and Pan-Africanist Marcus Mosiah Garvey, and it was he who created Jamaica's highest national awards, that of National Hero; making Garvey our first National Hero. This is the same man who was said not to like black people.

For a leader who was not 'born ya', he has done more to advance the cultural interests and heritage of black Jamaicans than every other 'born ya' political leader in this country. The creation of Things Jamaican to market the craft of our people; the establishment of the Cultural Training Centre, where the range and variety of art forms found full expression and where young minds could be moulded, are signal achievements.

PUTTING JAMAICA ON THE MAP

The most famous Jamaican in the world is Bob Marley. It is reggae music which has put Jamaica on the map. It is not our business class, or our intellectuals or assorted professionals and money people from uptown. It is the cultural products of poor, inner-city people which put Jamaica on the map and which uptown now has to 'sponge' on to sell the country. But it was this man Edward Seaga who after listening to the music of the poor and oppressed black people downtown, who called the 'Chiny Man' Byron Lee from uptown and took him downtown to catch the real rhythm of the people.

Byron Lee was inspired to create Jamaica ska for Jamaica's Independence. Seaga was astute enough to realise that the ska, known as the blue beat in England, had no Jamaican identity or brand and so Jamaica was put on to ska as a marketing strategy.

Seaga organised to have Jamaican music promoted in the United States. But he also did something else: He encouraged Byron Lee to take ska uptown - and Byron did. The rest is history. It has always been Seaga's dream to bring uptown and downtown together, creating One Jamaica.

OWN RECORD LABEL

Seaga had his own record label before he even entered politics and was a pioneer of the Jamaican recording industry.

While a former Fellow of the Institute, the highly accomplished Edna Manley, had taken on African art and was herself a lover of indigenous culture, Seaga promoted the work of the grass-roots Revivalist Mallica 'Kapo' Reynolds, Jamaica's noted intuitive artist.

Seaga has always been proud of African culture and its retentions in Jamaica. He has always sought to promote the cultural creativity of the Jamaican people whether it has been in sculpture, painting, music, drama or dance.

Nettleford would be the first to tell you of the enormous support Seaga gave to the National Dance Theatre Company. Don't forget also Seaga's work with people like Ma Lou.

This man was not using culture to build a political base. His contribution has been consistent, credible and convincing.Edward Seaga has had a nuanced, sophisticated and textured understanding of Jamaican culture, unparalleled by any other Jamaican political leader.

Seaga has never really been comfortable with the upper classes. Nor does he give them the kind of deference to which they have been accustomed. This is why, among other things, in the end they pulled their money from him. They have found him arrogant and stubborn because, unlike many black politicians, he has never been awed by their money, status, colour or vaunted sense of achievement.

RESPECTS ORDINARY JAMAICAN

Seaga has always respected the ordinary Jamaican people far more than he has the upper classes. You hear him say over and over that the people who have really brought fame to Jamaica are the people from the inner cities and from rural Jamaica.

One of his most pithy but poignant statements on culture was his preface to the 2002 JLP manifesto: "We must break the past tradition of polarisation of Jamaica politically, socially and culturally into warring tribes, social segments and cultural cliques, setting downtown apart from uptown, urban areas above rural areas, and acceptable against 'unacceptable' cultural forms".

This is why, even contrary to me, Seaga has refused to attack the dancehall, usually offering rationalisations for its excesses.This is why, again contrary to me, he has, in my view, made so many excuses for Tivoli Gardens and other inner-city areas.

Seaga has never subscribed to the superiority of middle-class values. He believes passionately that positive, socially useful values are also found in the working and peasant classes, and that uptown has no monopoly on morality or good tastes.His incessant reference to 'the two Jamaicas' during the 2002 election is memorable.

Said Seaga in that JLP manifesto preface: "There is no reason to hide the enlightened thinking of Marcus Garvey under a barrel of darkness. We must teach it in all our schools. As a people we do not truly know each other, our country or our past. Our relationships are defined by social classes which are perpetually intolerant of each other."

We have never given Seaga his due. I commend the Institute of Jamaica, under the leadership of Vivian Crawford, for honouring this extraordinary Jamaican patriot and nationalist, who - unlike us - chose to be Jamaican, turning his back on what most of us regard as heavenly American citizenship. I say, hail the man!

Ian Boyne is a veteran journalist. Email him at [email protected].

[mountaingal]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

Seaga demonstrated a typical white liberal's curiosity about black culture. whether this meant the information led to any change in his attitude toward day to day jamaicans is something up for question. remember the closing line in "Things Fall Apart."

i worked relatively closely with Seaga for a brief while in the 80s. i found him a man of good intentions, but, perhaps indicative of his social class, somewhat autocratic. i believe he genuinely wanted change for jamaica, but ultimately realized that entrenched historical practices and positions in the jamaican oligarchy were too much for him to overcome.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seaga demonstrated a typical white liberal's curiosity about black culture.... </div></div>
White warra?
Eddie Seaga was a Jamaican who studied one aspect of Jamaican Culture how does White Liberal come into it?
When people was nyaming dem one anneda dung a BackTo he went down there a almost singly handedly changed it, while all Menlie -The-Elder did was to get some journalist to goh dung deh a tek a report.

[mountaingal]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

i assess him as a white liberal. that doesn't mean i don't consider him jamaican.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i assess him as a white liberal. that doesn't mean i don't consider him jamaican.

</div></div>
You used the words <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>White Liberal </span>then you ascribed actions/motives to it, therefore it leads one to the conclusion that these are not the action of a <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>Jamaican</span> much more a <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>Black Jamaican</span>.
So what was Menlie-The-Younger then?

[mountaingal]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i assess him as a white liberal. that doesn't mean i don't consider him jamaican.

</div></div>
You used the words <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>White Liberal </span>then you ascribed actions/motives to it, therefore it leads one to the conclusion that these are not the action of a <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>Jamaican</span> much more a <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>Black Jamaican</span>.
So what was Menlie-The-Younger then?
</div></div>
this thread is about Seaga. CORRECTION: i was too hasty. in factI'm not sure why you reached that conclusion.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i assess him as a white liberal. that doesn't mean i don't consider him jamaican.

</div></div>
You used the words <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>White Liberal </span>then you ascribed actions/motives to it, therefore it leads one to the conclusion that these are not the action of a <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>Jamaican</span> much more a <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>Black Jamaican</span>.
So what was Menlie-The-Younger then?
</div></div>
this thread is about Seaga. CORRECTION: i was too hasty. in factI'm not sure why you reached that conclusion.

</div></div>

Okay so let's leave out the other name the argument still stands.
That a particular colour/race was mentioned and actions were ascribed to the colour.