EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

[bee_bop]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

No doubt Seaga did a lot to get himself into power, to endear himself to a populace that knew him not previously...such are the activties of aspiring politicians...
He also was most certainly the U.S. government's (i.e. the Reagan administration's) poster boy...so to speak. That I'm sure everyone knew, and he made no effort to hide this...

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?



Tuff Gong, I know may be tucked up and snoring away in bed by now but I feel impelled to say that I am new here.I read some of the interesting posts and actually was only going to include this site in my "favourites" and leave. Then I noticed that this particular forum thread said "a place to talk rationally about important issues". I am in the process of writing my views on problems in Jamaica and thought:maybe I can include my views here.I know there are those who may not like them, but they are my actual opinions. Now,you are clearly in disagreement with to some of my views.Fair enough, but do you really need to resort to abuse and profanity,are you not violating the warmth of "a place to talk rationally about important issues" ? I notice that your normal approach is in the precise language of the "BBC World Service" but when you appear most upset you use the profane abuse of a frustrated un-educated youth from Downtown, who actually knows no better because of his circumstance. What does this mean,are you trying to emphasise something,can you not do that without abuse? If this debate was in your front room then you would have greater freedom of choice of words.I don't mind at all, but in such a public place where there are young Jamaicans and other readers all over the world,it is a bad example.

Please be clear,I am not speaking about Jamaican patois here,because this is our mother language, I am speaking about abuse which is not a language at all, its simply bad behaviour which is an utterly useless diversion in a discussion on serious issues.And I don't have the time to facilitate diversions. It's entirely up to you of course, but don't feel offended if I don't respond.

I also apologise to any grammarians reading my "Seaga" post,but I am pressed for time and unfortunately proof-reading has been sacrificed.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No doubt Seaga did a lot to get himself into power, to endear himself to a populace that knew him not previously...such are the activties of aspiring politicians...
He also was most certainly the U.S. government's (i.e. the Reagan administration's) poster boy...so to speak. That I'm sure everyone knew, and he made no effort to hide this...
</div></div>
How Eddie got into power had nothing to do with Reagan or even him endearing himself to the people of Jamaica. That is why he was voted out so soon. He was never a widely accepted popular politician among most Jamaicans.

The PNP destroyed the economy plain and simple, it was just as it is now, after two terms of PNP bungling and terrorism the Jamaican People had enough of one of the most popular and corrupt politicians in Jamaica, Michael Menlie.

Like I said I was there and witnessed it myself.
The PNP Nationalized almost every major industry and ran them all into the ground by stocking them with party loyalists. Every Public Board, every State run entity including the security forces, the appointments were Party first, suitability for the job second.

The problems of Jamaica then as now do not need outside influences to explain. It was Menlie who brought the Cold War to Jamaica when he joined forces with Castro and a corrupt Soviet Union. In the face of the PNP Terror and underhandedness I would say Eddie would be irresponsible not to seek the help of the USA.
Menlie himself said on record that he had no evidence the CIA did anything to destabilize Jamaica.

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No doubt Seaga did a lot to get himself into power, to endear himself to a populace that knew him not previously...such are the activties of aspiring politicians...
He also was most certainly the U.S. government's (i.e. the Reagan administration's) poster boy...so to speak. That I'm sure everyone knew, and he made no effort to hide this...
</div></div>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>SEAGA: The bogus "economic expert" (episode 4)

Edward Seaga

Edward Seaga was elected Prime Minister of Jamaica in 1980 and the economic management of the country was handed over to Americans and other “free-marketeer” foreigners.They set to work immediately. Seaga was a mere willing tool and “Field Agent” who carried out instructions from the American HQ. It must be borne in mind that “Field Agents” have a tendency to be abandoned if “operations” are “compromised”. David Rockefeller in the US, as head of the US Business Committee on Jamaica (UBCJ) was the de facto “Minister of Financial Policy” for Jamaica. The UBCJ had some of America’s biggest corporations in their sty including: Gulf & Western, General Foods, Hilton International, Eastern Airlines, Alcoa, Atlantic Richfield and others.

Within two years Jamaica became the biggest recipient of US aid in the Caribbean and the fifth largest in the world. Not only this but preferring a “hands on” approach, American and other business personnel were despatched to Jamaica to administer the policy. The US Secretary of State Alexander Haig said at the time; “We are all vitally concerned that Jamaica succeed”. The American State Department body the Agency for International Development (AID) increased its staff in Kingston to 68; droves of American and other foreign “consultants” went to Jamaica to advise and lead the would-be “economic miracle” to save Jamaica from the very crisis that they had created!

Kingston Airport was kept busy by the regular plane-loads of foreign business experts landing there and making their way to their tropical offices. For example: at the National Water Commission, the Jamaican manager and technical director was sacked and replaced by a 5-member team of World Bank Specialists; the management of the national power company was handed to a British manager; while a running of the Jamaica’s miniscule railway system (more accurately should be described as the bauxite railway system) was given to a Canadian. And to introduce “work discipline” so-called “time and motion” specialists were touring various enterprises with their stop-watches, pocket calculators and micrometers scribbling down their expert recommendations. Yes, it was all systems go!

But what about Edward Seaga, what was “the wizard” doing when all this “economic action” was going on ? Seaga after rudely expelling the Cuban Ambassador, was busy filling up the airport departure lounge with scores of Cuban doctors and other specialists who he claimed was “interfering” (but as it turned out sometime later he had grit his teeth and call Fidel Castro and beg him to send back those very “communist doctors” that he had expelled).

So far, Seaga the “economic wizard” had done absolutely nothing in this area. The work was being done by the “foreign crew”. His only contribution in this direction seems to be stimulating a roaring trade at the duty-free departure lounge at Kingston and Sangster International airports. While over 800 Jamaican people had paid with their lives in the 1980 election campaign to get Edward Seaga elected further sacrifices is going to be demanded of them with the imposition of this new American-style “Jamaican dream”.

(TO BE CONTINUED)</span>

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?



<span style='font-size: 14pt'>SEAGA and the Americans: Black people's blood in Grenada,black people's blood in Jamaica

Edward Seaga

Five months after being elected, in March 1981 at a meeting of the Caribbean Group for Cooperation in Economic Development, Western representatives promised funding. They pledged US$350 million in grants and loans for 1982 while the World Bank and the IMF were donating US$ 445.8 million over the following three years. In the same year of that meeting the American Pentagon began a military invasion-training programme off the Puerto Rico coast.

Seaga sent a detachment of Jamaican soldiers to take part in that invasion-training in Puerto Rico . This was the dress rehearsal for the worst and most shameful incident in Jamaica’s short foreign policy history – our participation in the nefarious and cowardly American invasion of our Caribbean neighbours, Grenada on October 25, 1983.

Part of that reprehensible assault under the flimsy pretext of “taking out Cuban communist training camps” was the bombing of a mental institution killing 17, in a country even smaller than our own and killing 24 unarmed Cuban workers helping on airport construction.

Jamaica’s participation organised by Edward Seaga in that notorious invasion, was not only a grotesque affirmation of his loyalty to his American compatriots but would serve as a grotesque diversion to the almost immediate collapse of the “economic miracle” that the Jamaica masses was forced to bear the brunt of from the time Edward Seaga got into power.

The blood and tears of black people in Jamaica and Grenada began to flow. But in our country it never stopped,the worst kind of war developed -Jamaicans V. Jamaicans and the toll has reached 1,500 per annum.Even the most defenceless -babies and the elderly are being assassinated as part of the "military solution".

<u>Transcript of interview of Grenada's leader's Press Secretary at the time of the American invasion.</u>

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/6/10/remembering_reagans_invasion_of_grenada

</span>

(TO BE CONTINUED)

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?



<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Well well, Tuff Gong! I noticed you have decided to delete your profane and abusive responses to my posts.That is very good.I knew you had it in you to understand that there is no mileage in such behaviour.

I mean, its so un-necessary because it can make an otherwise fairly sensible person look plain ridiculous.So don't worry, I am used to similar angry responses from a few fellow Jamaicans who actually believe that Seaga is a nice personality. </span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Well well, Tuff Gong! I noticed you have decided to delete your profane and abusive responses to my posts.That is very good.I knew you had it in you to understand that there is no mileage in such behaviour.

I mean, its so un-necessary because it can make an otherwise fairly sensible person look plain ridiculous.So don't worry, I am used to similar angry responses from a few fellow Jamaicans who actually believe that Seaga is a nice personality. </span> </div></div> Heh,heh eh!!....... Tuff Gong eracing profabity!!! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]. I had to gio and check it myself.. and confrm as I thought, he did not.
That would be the day. carry on annyway, you will learn if you survive long enough,around here. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

[johnnycakes]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doubling the national debt was just an unfortunate side issue when one considers how well off Jamaicans are today as a result of all those loans. </div></div>

Can <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>you </span>prove that under Eddie Blinds the debt was doubled? </div></div>


"Jamaica's rapidly growing debt dated back to the oil price increases and expansionary fiscal policies of the 1970s. The balance of payments crisis experienced in the mid-1970s, however, was only the start of a spiraling debt crisis. From 1980 to 1986, Jamaica's total debt doubled, making the island one of the most indebted countries in the world on a per capita basis. Jamaica's debt peaked in the mid-1980s at US$3.5 billion and was not expected to exceed that level into the 1990s. Seaga's 1987 debt rescheduling negotiations with the IMF and the Paris Club (see Glossary) resulted in generous grace periods and at least a short-term easing of the crisis. Nonetheless, Jamaica's debt loomed large and unmanageable; by 1983, the total debt surpassed 150 percent of GDP. As noted above, debt servicing accounted for over 40 percent of government spending by 1985. Similarly, debt servicing as a ratio of exports reached levels higher than those in virtually any other Latin American nation. "

From: http://www.photius.com/countries/jam...y_balance.html


Tuffy,
If all Seaga ever did was to go in on the Grenada invasion and kiss up to Ronald Reagan then he is a despicable person.
To play along with the CIA and help bring in all the guns that started Jamaica down the long road to being the murder capital of the Caribbean is his heritage.

If you want to be an apologist for him, be my guest.
"A man is known by the company he keeps".

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Well well, Tuff Gong! I noticed you have decided to delete your profane and abusive responses to my posts.That is very good.I knew you had it in you to understand that there is no mileage in such behaviour.

I mean, its so un-necessary because it can make an otherwise fairly sensible person look plain ridiculous.So don't worry, I am used to similar angry responses from a few fellow Jamaicans who actually believe that Seaga is a nice personality. </span> </div></div> Heh,heh eh!!....... Tuff Gong eracing profabity!!! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]. I had to gio and check it myself.. and confrm as I thought, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>he did not</span>.
That would be the day. carry on annyway, you will learn if you survive long enough,around here. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Dr. Dudd, either you or I must be momentarily afflicted by a reading deficiency because I no longer see any abuse.Can't a person "turn over a new leaf" especially at a time of the start of a new year when private resolutions of soul-searching pledges of personal betterment is vogue?

As a matter of fact I have made a personal resolution myself: To intensify my aggressive crusade against the corrupt and criminal scum who have taken over our homeland. I could'nt fail to notice your caution concerning my chances of survival "around here". I thank you. However,I am not in the business of sterile and infantile "intellectual debates",which inevitably descends into the diversion of "cussings", if that was what you were referring to. This is what I explained to Mr Tuff Gong on the previous page.

My posts are simply to encourage any young Jamaicans to think for themselves,therefore if anyone thinks that I have the time to engage in trivia, I am afraid they will be bitterly disappointed.</span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Well well, Tuff Gong! I noticed you have decided to delete your profane and abusive responses to my posts.That is very good.I knew you had it in you to understand that there is no mileage in such behaviour.

I mean, its so un-necessary because it can make an otherwise fairly sensible person look plain ridiculous.So don't worry, I am used to similar angry responses from a few fellow Jamaicans who actually believe that Seaga is a nice personality. </span> </div></div> Heh,heh eh!!....... Tuff Gong eracing profabity!!! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]. I had to gio and check it myself.. and confrm as I thought, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>he did not</span>.
That would be the day. carry on annyway, you will learn if you survive long enough,around here. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Dr. Dudd, either you or I must be momentarily afflicted by a reading deficiency because I no longer see any abuse.Can't a person "turn over a new leaf" especially at a time of the start of a new year when private resolutions of soul-searching pledges of personal betterment is vogue?

As a matter of fact I have made a personal resolution myself: To intensify my aggressive crusade against the corrupt and criminal scum who have taken over our homeland. I could'nt fail to notice your caution concerning my chances of survival "around here". I thank you. However,I am not in the business of sterile and infantile "intellectual debates",which inevitably descends into the diversion of "cussings", if that was what you were referring to. This is what I explained to Mr Tuff Gong on the previous page.

My posts are simply to encourage any young Jamaicans to think for themselves,therefore if anyone thinks that I have the time to engage in trivia, I am afraid they will be bitterly disappointed.</span> </div></div> Yes a difficency of readibg fine print.

[blugiant]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Well well, Tuff Gong! I noticed you have decided to delete your profane and abusive responses to my posts.That is very good.I knew you had it in you to understand that there is no mileage in such behaviour.

I mean, its so un-necessary because it can make an otherwise fairly sensible person look plain ridiculous.So don't worry, I am used to similar angry responses from a few fellow Jamaicans who actually believe that Seaga is a nice personality. </span> </div></div>

diss mekk mii laff

tg lol. wat a ting wen imm tart fii chatt bout oww eddie respansible fii tekkinn miss lou aff tv ann radio

donotvote mii luv oww yu aandled tg butt keep yu kool ann use yu wurds a bitt more carefullee

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?


<span style='font-size: 14pt'>SEAGA: The Painful Statistics Part 1

Edward Seaga

Examining Seaga’s record as Prime Minister with the full economic backing from the US, the International Monetary Fund and World Bank and other Western supporters, not only in monetary terms but also in personnel on the ground, shows clearly that the work was that of these foreign entities, while Edward Seaga was a mere figure-head. Nothing more. So the description of him being an “economic wizard” is pure cynicism.

However let us look at some of the results of the policies carried out to “rescue Jamaica” from so-called “socialism” of the Manley government. In the first five years the US gave Seaga on average US$135 million per annum. He received approximately US$2,000 in financial “concessions” between 1981-1984. In sharp contrast Michael Manley barely received US$25 million in the last years when they were strangling the Jamaican economy in order to oust him from power. Even with the very meagre resources the Manley government was trying to carry out some positive social policies to improve the lives of the people as well as to modestly diversify the economy by trying to protect fledging manufacturers by import restrictions.

As soon as Seaga got into power he scrapped the import quotas leaving local manufacturers open to mercy of the big foreign multi-nationals and others who could produce cheaper goods. This was under the pretext that the foreign competition would force the fledgling Jamaican companies to be “more competitive” ie lower wages and allegedly to “increase efficiencies”. <u>What was the result ? In Seaga’s first two years 33 local factories were closed throwing thousands out of work.</u> Within five years Seaga had scrapped import restrictions on 364 items.

Of course Seaga and his foreign friends knew that local manufacturers had no chance in competing with big foreign monopolies who could make money by flooding the market with cheaper goods thereby putting Jamaican producers out of business. He also greatly expanded the “Free-zones” in which foreign manufacturers were promised un-unionised labour, lower wages and massive tax-concessions.Jamaica was being opened up into country of "cheap labour" and where local producers were being eliminated.

The IMF as part of its Structural Adjustment Policies (SAPS) also got they wanted including a big devaluation of the Jamaican Dollar. When Manley was still in power the US$1 was equal to J$1.87 and within 5 years of Seaga’s rule US$1 was exchanged for as much as J$6.40 in October 1985.</span>

(TO BE CONTINUED)

[Wahalla]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If we accuse Seaga of being a white liberal we must use the same definition for Manley, senior, Manley Juniour, Busta and Cargil.... </div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] how so?

also, i reread my post and am having a hard time seeing where i "accused" Seaga of anything. Wahalla, like Tuff Gong's, your reaction is quite intriguing...
</div></div>

OK not accuse... Identifying Seaga as a White Liberal....

not really intruging.. In 80 when he wont the election, the PNP had no ideas to improve the econonmy or they would have tried it.... I recall the campaign and cannot recall a single strategy that the PNP came up with to deal with the situation at the time... I actually think in jamaica the PNP is a the natural party of goverment....

If you examine the number of programs that Seaga started post independence.... From festival song through heart... we see the most successful of a bad bunch... I have a certain level of personal anamis towards Seaga about an incident in which I was involved and for that reason would not ever vote for any party he was involved with...

There was a story in the 70's that when Seaga initially returned from Howard, he wanted to join the PNP initially but Norman Manley though he was too radical.....

I saw SEaga as a "Jamaica white" in the same league as Busta or Micheal or Norman.. Ignorant I might be...

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HemGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If we accuse Seaga of being a white liberal we must use the same definition for Manley, senior, Manley Juniour, Busta and Cargil.... </div></div>

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] how so?

also, i reread my post and am having a hard time seeing where i "accused" Seaga of anything. Wahalla, like Tuff Gong's, your reaction is quite intriguing...
</div></div>

OK not accuse... Identifying Seaga as a White Liberal....

not really intruging.. In 80 when he wont the election, the PNP had no ideas to improve the econonmy or they would have tried it.... I recall the campaign and cannot recall a single strategy that the PNP came up with to deal with the situation at the time... I actually think in jamaica the PNP is a the natural party of goverment....

If you examine the number of programs that Seaga started post independence.... From festival song through heart... we see the most successful of a bad bunch... I have a certain level of personal anamis towards Seaga about an incident in which I was involved and for that reason would not ever vote for any party he was involved with...

There was a story in the 70's that when Seaga initially returned from Howard, he wanted to join the PNP initially but Norman Manley though he was too radical.....

I saw SEaga as a "Jamaica white" in the same league as Busta or Micheal or Norman.. Ignorant I might be... </div></div> That story was not about Mr Seaga. It was about Mr Pernel Charles. And Mr Seaga is a graduate of My school, Harvard,not howard.

[X]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again Eddie Blinds was Prime Minister for less than 8 years, he helped to pull Jamaica out of the PNP created and Cuban aided muck and mire that was our certain faith.
</div></div>

someone REALLY acknowledge this??!
If it wasnt for Eddie, Jamaica today would likely be a mutation of Cuba and Haiti.
If it wasnt for the great charismatic Joshua, Jamaica would possibly the Caribbean's economic version of Singapore.