EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

[bee_bop]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

xKs said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If it wasnt for the great charismatic Joshua, Jamaica would possibly the Caribbean's economic version of Singapore.</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">There is some truth to this statement, because Singapore used Jamaica's economic development as a model for its own development, during the administration of the unfortunately late Rt. Hon. Hugh Shearer.
The only thing is, even if Jamaica achieved that target, a lot of Jamaicans still wouldn't be that happy. I suppose money can't buy happiness. Although I wish some of Jamaica's Prime Ministers' had not led the country into so much debt and grime...I...uh...mean crime.</span>

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?


<span style='font-size: 14pt'>SEAGA: The Painful Statistics and rising malnutrition Part 2

Edward Seaga

Within a mere 24 months of Seaga taking over from Manley who allegedly “mash up the country”, Jamaica’s trade deficit trebled. Under Manley Jamaica’s trade deficit stood at $213 million in 1980 whilst under Seaga the deficit leapt to approximately $600 million in 1982. While on paper these statistics appear as abstract fugures, in reality it had enormous social impact on the lives of the Jamaican people. The Seaga government sharply reduced government spending and phased out Manley’s price control on basic necessities in food items such as butter, biscuits, cheese, sugar, infant foods, condensed milk, rice etc. The price of sugar had increased by 30%. So while empty shelves in the final years (created by the foreign strangulation) existed under Manley, the shelves were full under Seaga but many consumer items were marked up at such high prices that the masses could not afford to buy them.

Compared with 1978 when the foreigners began to unfold their economic attacks on Jamaica, food production fell a massive 30% places by 1982, two years into Seaga’s “miracle”. Soon, malnutrition began to sharply increase in Jamaica, especially amongst children. Low cost housing was also curtailed under Seaga while landlords were permitted to increase rents as much as 400% when rent controls were abolished by the Seaga’s government. Electricity bills increased by116% in one three-month period in 1984.

During these years of the austerity programme, thousands of government jobs were lost while various schools and hospitals were fully or partially closed.

(TO BE CONTINUED)</span>

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?




<span style='font-size: 14pt'>SEAGA: The Painful StatisticsPart 3

Edward Seaga

The situation was becoming unbearable. In two short years between spring 1981 – spring 1983 over 43,000 Jamaicans were forced to flee the country to escape Seaga’s “economic miracle”. <u>This was the highest emigration figure in the history of Jamaica, over such short period.</u>

Most of these people went to the US and some to Canada. A large proportion were educated or professional Jamaicans that did not cost these countries one cent to train but now they were at the disposal of their north American industries.

Dear readers,let us pause for a while and think deeper about this record exodus of Jamaican labour into the US cities of Philidelphia,Boston, New York and elsewhere.This was just what the American capitalists wanted to fill their labour market with cheap trained and untrained labour. This was the second big outflow of brains and skills following those who left during Manley’s final years in power when the Americans were starving Jamaica of funds and goods.

So while the British,using their usual cunning, subtle methods in the 1950's and 60's to coax Jamaicans into Britain to ease labour shortages, the Americans did the same but instead used a combination of the false political threat of "communist take-over" under Manley and economic pressure of rising enemployment under Seaga, to induce a high proportion of our people to leave their homeland. What a masterstroke!

So while Jamaican producers were being crushed without mercy by the influx of foreign competition and cheap-labour industries, our people were being "exported" like commodities to serve the insatiable appetite of the obese "Uncle Sam".

And still we have cowardly people,claiming to be "educated" running around saying that the scheming racists in the American White House are Jamaica's best friends and Manley our worst enemy without them explaining why Manley wants to "mash up the country" -presumably like what "Castro" has done to his own country which is there for all to see!

<u>Well, all I can say is that if Cuba is a truly "mashed-up" country, if I were the American State Department I would be praying for Castro to live as long as possible so he can mash-up the country even more,thereby inciting Cubans to revolt !
</u>
The thing about history is that it has the irritating quality of recognising only what actually impacted on peoples lives and not what is read out on BBC World Service, written in the New York times or told by some nondescript professors who get highly paid to repeat what they are told.

(TO BE CONTINUED)</span>

[evanovitch]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Well well, Tuff Gong! I noticed you have decided to delete your profane and abusive responses to my posts.That is very good.I knew you had it in you to understand that there is no mileage in such behaviour.

I mean, its so un-necessary because it can make an otherwise fairly sensible person look plain ridiculous.So don't worry, I am used to similar angry responses from a few fellow Jamaicans who actually believe that Seaga is a nice personality. </span> </div></div> Heh,heh eh!!....... Tuff Gong eracing profabity!!! [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]. I had to gio and check it myself.. and confrm as I thought, <span style='font-size: 17pt'>he did not</span>.
That would be the day. carry on annyway, you will learn if you survive long enough,around here. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img] </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Dr. Dudd, either you or I must be momentarily afflicted by a reading deficiency because I no longer see any abuse.Can't a person "turn over a new leaf" especially at a time of the start of a new year when private resolutions of soul-searching pledges of personal betterment is vogue?

As a matter of fact I have made a personal resolution myself: To intensify my aggressive crusade against the corrupt and criminal scum who have taken over our homeland. I could'nt fail to notice your caution concerning my chances of survival "around here". I thank you. However,I am not in the business of sterile and infantile "intellectual debates",which inevitably descends into the diversion of "cussings", if that was what you were referring to. This is what I explained to Mr Tuff Gong on the previous page.

My posts are simply to encourage any young Jamaicans to think for themselves,therefore if anyone thinks that I have the time to engage in trivia, I am afraid they will be bitterly disappointed.</span> </div></div>

ur writings seem to come under the heading of the first statement <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> sterile and infantile intellectual </div></div> which wud negate any benefit to the people mentioned in the second <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My posts are simply to encourage any young Jamaicans to think for themselves</div></div>....

[johnnycakes]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

This piece on Seaga is quite different from the usual accolades accorded the Great Screw Face by his admirers.
Of course Mr. Seaga was only incrementally better or worse than any of the others who followed his eight years at the helm. Jamaica has grown much more violent, the economy has stagnated and the lives of ordinary citizens worsened in the 28 years since Seaga's election.
Education, healthcare, public safety, employment, just about every facet of the social fabric has gone downhill in all this time.

Seaga was for all intents and purposes a caretaker to a system that, lacking democracy and public input, merely stumbled along doing what comes natural to a totalitarian economic and political country.
The rich did well and the poor and average Jamaican (having no power or say in how things are run economically or politically) suffered economically and socially.

PNP, JLP, it makes no difference who is in office. They all follow the same script.

Capitalism and a totalitarian electoral system are the problems.
Seaga, P.J. Patterson, Portia Simpson etc are just manifestations of the problems.

If Jamaica were an economic or political democracy, these people would never have been nominated much less serve as heads of state.

While the ongoing piece on Mr. Seaga is very well written and very entertaining, it has failed to put the blame for Jamaica's malaise where it properly belongs and detracts from a coming together to find solutions.

[evanovitch]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rich did well and the poor and average Jamaican (having no power or say in how things are run economically or politically) suffered economically and socially. </div></div>

but at least it was odda jamaicans lauding it above dem...now u ha all dem no manners coolie from india, pakistan, trinidad....dem chiney whe ha no brougtopsie and di whites whe juss plain down care

wat a progress we regress een ..dang

[remo]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

DoNotVote yuh is a brave man...is nuff nuff time Tuff gong cuss mi down yah fi di sed tings yuh trying to seh [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

BTW where is wardob?

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DoNotVote yuh is a brave man...is nuff nuff time Tuff gong cuss mi down yah fi di sed tings yuh trying to seh [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

BTW where is wardob? </div></div>

Ha ha ha ! Remo that's very funny! some people don't even know what's going on on their own street but can kill u wid chat.They are good for light entertainment when you are preoccupied with dealing with serious issues! He made me laugh from page 1 when he said that I should "<u>post the link to what I am copying</u>"! Hilarious.Obviously not serious person. I better stop, in case I wake him up, I haven't seen him for ages. I wonder what he would ask for when I start doing some serious writing? Anyway Remo,keep smiling, star.
DNV

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DONOTvote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


<span style='font-size: 14pt'>SEAGA: The Painful StatisticsPart 3

Edward Seaga

The situation was becoming unbearable. In two short years between spring 1981 – spring 1983 over 43,000 Jamaicans were forced to flee the country to escape Seaga’s “economic miracle”. <u>This was the highest emigration figure in the history of Jamaica, over such short period.</u>

Most of these people went to the US and some to Canada. A large proportion were educated or professional Jamaicans that did not cost these countries one cent to train but now they were at the disposal of their north American industries.

Dear readers,let us pause for a while and think deeper about this record exodus of Jamaican labour into the US cities of Philidelphia,Boston, New York and elsewhere.This was just what the American capitalists wanted to fill their labour market with cheap trained and untrained labour. This was the second big outflow of brains and skills following those who left during Manley’s final years in power when the Americans were starving Jamaica of funds and goods.

So while the British,using their usual cunning, subtle methods in the 1950's and 60's to coax Jamaicans into Britain to ease labour shortages, the Americans did the same but instead used a combination of the false political threat of "communist take-over" under Manley and economic pressure of rising enemployment under Seaga, to induce a high proportion of our people to leave their homeland. What a masterstroke!

So while Jamaican producers were being crushed without mercy by the influx of foreign competition and cheap-labour industries, our people were being "exported" like commodities to serve the insatiable appetite of the obese "Uncle Sam".

And still we have cowardly people,claiming to be "educated" running around saying that the scheming racists in the American White House are Jamaica's best friends and Manley our worst enemy without them explaining why Manley wants to "mash up the country" -presumably like what "Castro" has done to his own country which is there for all to see!

<u>Well, all I can say is that if Cuba is a truly "mashed-up" country, if I were the American State Department I would be praying for Castro to live as long as possible so he can mash-up the country even more,thereby inciting Cubans to revolt !
</u>
The thing about history is that it has the irritating quality of recognising only what actually impacted on peoples lives and not what is read out on BBC World Service, written in the New York times or told by some nondescript professors who get highly paid to repeat what they are told.

(TO BE CONTINUED)</span>

</div></div> Ivanovitch, I know.Life can be very cruel sometimes!

[bee_bop]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

JC said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the usual accolades accorded the Great Screw Face </div></div>
[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/704555_dwl.gif[/img]


JC said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Seaga, P.J. Patterson, Portia Simpson etc are just manifestations of the problems.

If Jamaica were an economic or political democracy, these people would never have been nominated much less serve as heads of state.</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Errr, neither Seaga, P.J. Patterson, Portia Simpson, etc. were, or are, Heads of State. Merely Heads of Ministers of Parliament.</span>

JC said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the ongoing piece on Mr. Seaga is very well written and very entertaining, it has failed to put the blame for Jamaica's malaise where it properly belongs and detracts from a coming together to find solutions. </div></div>

Littleman says:
Translation: DoNotVote hasn't blamed capitalism, and the lack of proper implementation of socialism, during the Manley years of the seventies. To conclude, by the gospel of JohnnyCakes, <span style="color: #CC0000">one must denounce the murderous capitalism(of which he is probably one of the biggest, maybe owning shares in one of these greedy corporations that gouge the eyes out of the poor to provide him with much desired dividends)</span>, and impose Cuban style socialism immediately(where <span style="color: #000099">no one sleeps on the streets, but where more than one family shares a sub-divided apartment built only for one family</span>).

[evanovitch]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ivanovitch, I know.Life can be very cruel sometimes! [/ </div></div>

see, u on the first step of the 12 step program...dere is hope fi u still...proud a u...now if u could somehow grow pass di garrison indoctrination u still spewing...but one ting at a time... [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

[johnnycakes]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

Littleman says:
Translation: DoNotVote hasn't blamed capitalism, and the lack of proper implementation of socialism, during the Manley years of the seventies. To conclude, by the gospel of JohnnyCakes, one must denounce the murderous capitalism(of which he is probably one of the biggest, maybe owning shares in one of these greedy corporations that gouge the eyes out of the poor to provide him with much desired dividends), and impose Cuban style socialism immediately(where no one sleeps on the streets, but where more than one family shares a sub-divided apartment built only for one family).
_________________________


Littleman,
The facts speak for themselves.
Just where has Jamaica and most of the Third World gone under capitalism?
The Prime Ministers of both parties, as leaders have done nothing but maintain the status quo which is a totalitarian electoral system where the elite of the parties select those whom the electorate gets to vote for and a totalitarian economic system where the economic elite decide who gets what share of the wealth produced.

IMO, Donotvote despite not making these points is a very welcome and literate addition to the fora. He represents a raising of the standards of debate and discussion. Note that his critics choose to criticize him and not the points he is making. Much as no one cares to address the lack of democracy that I bring up frequently.

[evanovitch]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

oh please JC...he is saying nothing new...this is old rehashed stories...so wat is dere to debate....not cause someone is new mean dem bring newness...dere is nothing being said that has not been leveled at Seaga before...said ting fi all di politicians a yaad....an btw, socialism has not done well fi nations eida...coo pon Britain...dismal failure

[DONOTvote]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh please JC...he is saying nothing new...this is old rehashed stories...so wat is dere to debate....not cause someone is new mean dem bring newness...dere is nothing being said that has not been leveled at Seaga before...said ting fi all di politicians a yaad....an btw, socialism has not done well fi nations eida...coo pon Britain...dismal failure </div></div>

<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Evanovitch socialism has never existed in Britain.socialism has never existed in Jamaica. Socialism cannot exist by mere declaration by a ruling party. What has existed in both countries are Imperialist democracy and neo-colonial democracy respectively.

I think some of us have been watching too many cartoons and believe that the colourful illustrations are real.</span>

[bee_bop]

Re: EDWARD Seaga, who is this man?

DoNotVote said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think some of us have been watching too many cartoons and believe that the colourful illustrations are real.</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I've been saying that myself too...the Magic Kingdom of Disneyland, with Mickey, and Minnie Mouse, along with Goofy come to mind. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/desdentado.gif[/img] </span>