'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against gun

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">annoda question for you doc since you focusing on the jamaican context....what proportion of shootings in jamaica do you think are crimes of opportunity? </div></div> All shooting swork out to be crimes of opportunity. Even those who are hired assasins. they still weigh the risk involved,and if they don't see th epossibillity of gettingh out alive they simply tefuse the contract.

[RichD]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is it that commonly happen in the US??
</div></div> criminals brazenly shooting down there target and walking away ..all you have to do is read the news paper any day </div></div> Thi sonly happens in areas where therr is a lack oor derth of klegalk gun owners. In 3 sections of Boston they have gun killings on a weekly basis, in th eareas where there are lots of weapons and working policew force, we have none. </div></div> so which is it ...the working police force or the weapons that keep those areas safe?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is it that commonly happen in the US??
</div></div> criminals brazenly shooting down there target and walking away ..all you have to do is read the news paper any day </div></div> Thi sonly happens in areas where therr is a lack oor derth of klegalk gun owners. In 3 sections of Boston they have gun killings on a weekly basis, in th eareas where there are lots of weapons and working policew force, we have none. </div></div> so which is it ...the working police force or the weapons that keep those areas safe? </div></div> They work together in some cases the working police force is the appropriate tool, but a p[olice force shound be your last line of defence against gunmen. your first line is the deterrent of witnesses to the crime . the next line is gour gun.

[RichD]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

i think that a gun would be my absolute last line of defense.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i think that a gun would be my absolute last line of defense.


</div></div> Not if a man with a gun break in your house do you??

[RichD]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i think that a gun would be my absolute last line of defense.


</div></div> Not if a man with a gun break in your house do you?? </div></div>


im hoping that the man who break into my house dont have a gun....because i dont either.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i think that a gun would be my absolute last line of defense.


</div></div> Not if a man with a gun break in your house do you?? </div></div>


im hoping that the man who break into my house dont have a gun....because i dont either. </div></div> That is OK when the first line of deterrent, caused by an effective justice system is enough like when you live, but when you are living in a jurisdiction where that does not exist, it is the best insurance that you will survive.

[RichD]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

so why not say that an effective justice system is the answer in jamaica? or are jamaicans incapeable?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so why not say that an effective justice system is the answer in jamaica? or are jamaicans incapeable? </div></div> becauase it takes time and money both of which is not available to Jamaica right now,but if it can survive long enough to develope those, then it can be instututed. Think Emergency room,in a hospital the sort of treatment you get there are never ideal, but it is just enough to keep the patient alive until the appropriate skills ,and facillities are available tothem.

[Sofisa]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against gun

Unfortunately Dr. Dudd's logic doesn't seem to be hitting home. Jamaica has some of the toughest gun (and anti-weapons) laws in the world, but that doesnt stop a thousand or more ppl a year from being murdered, even brazenly in broad daylight, and in front of witnesses. In most if not all those cases, the only armed person was the perp, with the security force an hour later. The witness and victim should have been given a chance, and not have their hands tied by the state, which obviously cant protect them. As pointed out, there is a matter of risk. The result would be a more likelihood for property crimes than offenses against persons.

It is too late to disarm bad men. They introduce high powered rifles to Jamaica and the best the govt could do was to upgrade to match, and at this moment, I doubt the security is leading the arms race. So perish that thought. A lock is meant to deter an opportunistic person, not a real criminal. Same for gun laws. Not one deterred a criminal from having weapons in Jamaica. And no law is going to make them hand them in either. It will have to pried from their dead fingers, so give the citizen to same opportuinty to defend their lives to the end.

As for the real cause? Be it democracy or otherwise, the move from one form of govt to any other, would most likely call for for a revolution. Well, those in power will definitely not want to arm citizens who will then have means to take matters into their own hands. That may be the single most important reason for all these tight gun control laws.

[johnnycakes]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

Since Jamaica is a democracy it should be fairly easy to nominate and elect people who will not only stop all these killings but correct the things that cause people to commit murder in the first place.

[johnnycakes]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

Here, read this nonsense.
Mr Golding is going to solve the crime problem by getting to the roots of the problem according to the article.
Oh really? He's going to end poverty, provide free and excellent educational opportunities for all the poor and guarantee a living wage job for all those caught up in gang warfare?

From Caribbean Net News:

Jamaica's Prime Minister Says Solving Crime Is Number One Priority
Published on Saturday, February 2, 2008 Email To Friend Print Version

KINGSTON, Jamaica (JIS): Prime Minister, Bruce Golding, has said that the matter of solving crime is the number one priority of the Jamaican government.

Golding was responding to a caller's concern about the country's high crime rate, during his first one-hour radio call-in programme, which was broadcast on Wednesday.

According to the Prime Minister, the Government is pursuing a strategy that is designed to "get to the neck of the crime problem".


Prime Minister, Bruce Golding gives a detailed response to a caller during the airing of the new radio programme 'Jamaica House Live.' The one hour programme which is broadcast live from Jamaica House, allows Jamaicans at home and abroad to call in and speak directly with the Prime Minister. It will be aired on the last Wednesday of each month. "We cannot deal with just the symptoms of crime. We have a new Commissioner of Police and a new Chief of Staff and they are pursuing this matter very vigilantly and very diligently," he stated.

He informed that appropriate technologies will be utilized in the fight against crime and already, "we are beginning to see some results and the security forces are being encouraged by the Government to intensify their efforts as we have to get on top of this."

The new one-hour radio call-in programme 'Jamaica House Live' is part of the Government's thrust to open the lines of communication and to hear suggestions, comments and general feedback from Jamaicans at home and abroad.

Additionally, it will provide the forum for Government to report on its stewardship in implementing policies and programmes to improve the lives of citizens.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since Jamaica is a democracy it should be fairly easy to nominate and elect people who will not only stop all these killings but correct the things that cause people to commit murder in the first place. </div></div> I believe in change that rely on principles not personalities. so it really does not matter how many changes are made in the leaders. It is all about the changes in the policies, and the strategies that are used to achieve them.

[Wardob]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against gun

Well like the good Dr. I to grew up with and have been exposed to firearms at an early age, spent a lot of time doing bird shooting in an out of season.
I am a license firearm holder and a member of a group of 30 license and capable firearm holder, who does bird shooting during season, and carry a sidearm for protection of life and property. To say no Jamaicans shouldn’t be granted a firearm license because they are using them irresponsible or as stated “to kill off each other” is not really true, but who knows they might be some who are so intent, but for the vast majority I would say not true at all and it’s a slap face of the thousand of us who carry and use our weapons responsible and for the purpose it is intent

Newtral:- “So as to be totally clear about where I stand on this issue,. it is this,....from the evidence so far in my opinion, it would seem that Jamaicans are not capable of carrying loaded weapons without the urge to murder each other with them at the slightest provocation, I wouldn’t exactly describe it as uncivilized, or primitive, but it does point in the direction of a casual approach to death and retribution. “

Its your opinion as you said and you are certainly entitled to them ,but with regard’s to the evidence there is none that is established or can be pointed to what you stated quote :-“Jamaicans are not capable of carrying loaded weapons without the urge to murder each other with them at the slightest provocation”
Most license firearm holder sees their weapons as a tool for hunting and for defending life and property, and without such purpose will not even attempt to un-holster their arms. Thanks anyhow not to think of us as uncivilized or primitive because we do carry a firearm.

I don’t totally agree with Dr. to grant license to any and every one who needs its.
Firearms should only be issued to person or persons who are proven to be responsible and is trained or capable to be train in their use. I don’t agree with him also that by merely carrying a firearm one would not be attack as the attacker may think twice before doing so. Evidence have shown that most of the Policemen for instance who were killed last year were killed for their firearms. Carrying a firearm can run you into trouble at times, when I visit certain areas in Ja. I don’t carry a firearm; I use to but learn quickly that one can become the centre of attraction and without other protection one life could be in danger.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'She gave up her life for us' - Mother testifies against gun

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don’t totally agree with Dr. to grant license to any and every one who needs its.
Firearms should only be issued to person or persons who are proven to be responsible and is trained or capable to be train in their use. I don’t agree with him also that by merely carrying a firearm one would not be attack as the attacker may think twice before doing so. Evidence have shown that most of the Policemen for instance who were killed last year were killed for their firearms. Carrying a firearm can run you into trouble at times, when I visit certain areas in Ja. I don’t carry a firearm; I use to but learn quickly that one can become the centre of attraction and without other protection one life could be in danger</div></div><span style='font-size: 11pt'>
Come on Mr wardob you are mistaking the forest for the trees. What is the difference between the places where you will take your weapon and those that you won't?
Let me answer that question for you. It is because you feel more secure because of the lower probability that you will be disarmed by some thug in the places where you will take, and the opposite in the places where you won't.

You have not really identified the what is the one thing that makes these two choices different.
Well let me tell you what that is.
It is the realization that the criminals weighs the risk and acy according to the odds.
They know that the odds are in their favour in the areas where you won't take your weapon,
and know that the odds are in your favour where you will take your weapon.
The only the that changes that odds is the difference between the enumber of law abiding citizens that are capableof offering support to you, as against the dearth of those in the other areas.
The logic behind the advantage of having a higher percentage of citizens that are capable of defending a fellow citizen in distress.
The fact is what improves that capability is willingness, which Jamaicans have ability which most do not have against an armed agressor,when you are overmatched.
Overmatching is any situation where the thug and the victim are the only armed individuals, with the thug unholstering first, or otherwise where the armed thugs out number the armed citizens and the thugs are aware of this.
.So you see the reality is that since the thug realize that The Jamaican situation where the majority is unarmed, once they ID a lone armed citizen, the odds are against that armed citizen. So they take the opportunity to disarm them.
If they know that anywhere they go in the country the odds are against them they will simple change their behavior. It is not rocket science. to deduce that with a density of armed cyioizens the odds increases in favour to the citizens and th elower density,the odds are in the favour of the thugs. It is simple logic to allow all citizens to aquire legal fire arms instead of the present policy where only some races are favoured, because the lives members of the black citizens are not as valuable as of others. </span>