mumbai terror

[Gen]

Re: mumbai terror

a dat mi a wonder too

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mugly_xKs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most of the dead were indians and not westerners according to reports. 2 americans plus the american/israeli couple.

a brit, 1 australian </div></div>

a dat mi been wandering miself Gen.. How dem claim seh di gunman dem did a look fi westerners yet only TWO Americans killed outta 195 (last count).
If this was so well planned, andthe target was Americans and Brits (as dem claim) this look like a huge failure to me.

</div></div>

[Boricua_papi]

Re: mumbai terror

Conspiracy theories aside, perhaps the terrorists overestimated the number of American and British citizens might be at the locales in question especially on a Thanksgiving holiday where, at least Americans, tend to travel home to spend the time with family.

[Tropicana]

Re: mumbai terror

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Massacre in Mumbai: Up to SEVEN gunmen were British and 'came from same area as 7/7 bombers'
By Justin Davenport , Rashid Razaq and Nicola Boden
Last updated at 7:39 PM on 28th November 2008

Comments (276) Add to My Stories
British-born Pakistanis among arrested militants

Commandos storm strongholds to rescue hostages
Siege continues at Taj hotel as bystanders wounded

Death toll rises as another 24 bodies found in hotel
At least five dead hostages found in Jewish Centre

British-born Pakistanis were among the Mumbai terrorists, Indian government sources claimed today, as the death toll rose to at least 155.

As many as seven of the terrorists may have British connections and some could be from Leeds and Bradford where London's July 7 bombers lived, one source said.
Two Britons were among eight gunmen being held, according to Mumbai's chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh. At least nine others are reportedly dead.
The eight arrested were captured by commandos after they stormed two hotels and a Jewish centre to free hostages today. Despite the Indian authorities' assurances that the situation was under control, the siege continued at the Taj Mahal hotel and explosions could still be heard in central Mumbai.

One security official said: 'There is growing concern about British involvement in the attacks.'
But Gordon Brown has urged caution. He emerged from a conversation with India's Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to say there was no suggestion of a British link.
'At no point has the prime minister of India suggested to me that there is evidence at this stage of any terrorist of British origins, but obviously these are huge investigations
</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Senior Whitehall sources said it was too early to say whether there had been any involvement by British nationals but that security services, working with overseas partners, would be looking at any potential links to the UK.
Home Secretary Jacqui Smith also said UK authorities had &quot;no knowledge&quot; of any British links with the massacre, while Foreign Secretary David Miliband said it was &quot;too early to say&quot; whether any of the terrorists were British.

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bloody drama which began on Wednesday night has now lasted more than two days. The targets across the city were:

The Oberoi Hotel, in the commercial district. Its restaurant was bustling with diners, many of them tourists;
Also attacked was the Leopold restaurant, a haunt of the city's art crowd. As the fanatics sprayed the packed cafe, diners fled in terror;
</div></div>

This is the most disturbing aspect of the whole thing:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Some of the worst scenes were at the major railway station. As they entered the Gothic Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus, once named after Queen Victoria,<span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-size: 20pt">the gunmen were smiling. With an astonishing air of casualness, the terrorists started to shoot. Within seconds the concourse was a bloodbath. People lay screaming on the floor;</span> </span>

A further prestigious target was the 105-year-old Taj </div></div>

[Phatty]

Re: mumbai terror

I've booked quite a few clients there in the past month and so...
Manager wont give us records to see if we've booked any of them. The thought is troubling

[Tuff Gong]

Re: mumbai terror

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Mumbai photographer: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera. Armed police would not fire back</span>

Jerome Taylor talks to the photographer whose picture went around the world

Saturday, 29 November 2008
Sebastian D'Souza


<span style="font-style: italic">A gunman walks at the Chatrapathi Sivaji Terminal railway station in Mumbai, India, Wednesday, Nov. 26, 2008. Teams of gunmen stormed luxury hotels, a popular restaurant, hospitals and a crowded train station in coordinated attacks across India's financial capital, killing people, taking Westerners hostage and leaving parts of the city under siege Thursday, police said. A group of suspected Muslim militants claimed responsibility. AP</span>

It is the photograph that has dominated the world's front pages, casting an astonishing light on the fresh-faced killers who brought terror to the heart of India's most vibrant city. Now it can be revealed how the astonishing picture came to be taken by a newspaper photographer who hid inside a train carriage as gunfire erupted all around him.

Sebastian D'Souza, a picture editor at the Mumbai Mirror, whose offices are just opposite the city's Chhatrapati Shivaji station, heard the gunfire erupt and ran towards the terminus. &quot;I ran into the first carriage of one of the trains on the platform to try and get a shot but couldn't get a good angle, so I moved to the second carriage and waited for the gunmen to walk by,&quot; he said. &quot;They were shooting from waist height and fired at anything that moved. I briefly had time to take a couple of frames using a telephoto lens. I think they saw me taking photographs but they didn't seem to care.&quot;

The gunmen were terrifyingly professional, making sure at least one of them was able to fire their rifle while the other reloaded. By the time he managed to capture the killer on camera, <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Mr D'Souza had already seen two gunmen calmly stroll across the station concourse shooting both civilians and policemen, many of whom, he said, were armed but did not fire back.</span> &quot;I first saw the gunmen outside the station,&quot; Mr D'Souza said. &quot;With their rucksacks and Western clothes they looked like backpackers, not terrorists, but they were very heavily armed and clearly knew how to use their rifles.

&quot;Towards the station entrance, there are a number of bookshops and one of the bookstore owners was trying to close his shop,&quot; he recalled. &quot;The gunmen opened fire and the shopkeeper fell down.&quot;

But what angered Mr D'Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back. &quot;There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything,&quot; he said. &quot;At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back.&quot;

As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D'Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. &quot;I couldn't believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn't run, we told them to stay put.&quot;

The militants returned inside the station and headed towards a rear exit towards Chowpatty Beach. Mr D'Souza added: &quot;I told some policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but they refused to follow them.<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"> What is the point if having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera.&quot; </span>

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/w...k-14086308.html

[Wahalla]

Re: mumbai terror

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Found it:



Now what would make a teenager so angry and hostile that he takes such delight in killing? </div></div>

im neva get ax tuh deh prom by a white sumadi....


This is what I dont get literally hundreds have been killed in Nigeria in last couple days.. yet it never solists the heat of comment... Why htere is no lead back to an possible anglo connection...

[Tropicana]

Re: mumbai terror

There isn't ALWAYS a lead back to an Anglo connection. Oh Wahalla I KNOW that you and some others on here who had the privillege of being raised in Jamaica can be really cavalier about the suffering of others and you think rejection is a joke. If you think that young men won't react to name calling, shunning, being beaten up every day by classmates, etc. by becoming angry, hostile and ripe for the picking by extreme elements, you are VERY naive. Girls may go home and cry but young men have other options. Don't be surprised if some of your own kids react in ways that you didn't see coming one of these days. Not everyone is going to just sit down and take it or just vent about it.

Remember, 1 of the London bombers was Jamaican born and raised in the UK. They have found young people born and raised in the USA, the UK and Canada among the guerillas fighting for Al Qaeda.

Also, there is an EXTREMELY radical Jamaican-born Imman who will be finishing his jail sentence in another year or so. After that, he will be deported back to Jamaica and free as a bird. So those who think that there is nothing to this, think again. It is a highly dangerous situation.

They STILL aren't 100% sure if the terroists were British born. They had MULTIPLE identication documents with a variety of citizenships. Only time will tell.

For those whoe want to close their eyes and feel say that this has nothing to do with anti-western sentiment. I will share this.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Eye Witness Accounts </span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It was in the Taj that a sinister new element to the attack emerged. Survivors said the gunmen were particularly interested in British and American guests, singling them out as targets and ignoring other nationalities. Guests scattered in panic as the carnage continued. 'There were people getting shot in the corridor. There was someone dead outside the bathroom,' said 28-year-old Australian former Neighbours actress Brooke Satchwell.

</div></div>
Source


On the way home, a talk show host read a Canadian's account of what happened. I wish I could find it on-line. If I do, will post it. He was staying at the Taj. In the middle of the night, he heard pounding on his door, wisely he didn't answer. Then he heard explosions. When the coast was clear he ran down 18 flights of stairs, got in a cab and headed for the airport, that is how he escaped. He said that one of the first things the terroists did was go to the front desk, get ahold of the passports (photocopies) and start banging on the doors of all Westerners.

NUMEROUS other eye wintness have indicated that the terroists were going through passports and looking for British citizens and Ameicans. One British guy even hid his passport in his wooden leg.

So, that is what the eye witnesses have had to say. You weren't there, I wasn't there. So what's this foolishness about there was no anti-Western sentitment.

If you aren't willing to accept what the eye witnesses had to say, then perhaps you will accept it directly from one of the gun men. Here is what he told the police.

Now if this isn't HIGHLY disturbing I don't know what is.

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Mumbai attacks: How young Britons are radicalised in Pakistan </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Many of the young British-born Muslims who return to the land of their parents and grandparents come simply to visit relatives or to discover their roots. But some come to learn how to destroy the West.


There are some 45 violent extremist Islamic groups in Pakistan. The best-known are Harkat-e-Jihad-e-Islami (The Movement for Islamic Jihad), Jaish-e-Mohammed (Army of Mohammed) and Jundullah (Army of God), but with ever-changing names, splits and overlapping ideologies, it is difficult to differentiate one from another let alone keep track of their murderous attempts to topple Pakistans' current leaders and replace them with a fundamentalist regime.


Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's president, conceded last week that his country was being used as both a base and a route for al-Qaeda. &quot;Whenever any terror act takes place it is revealed that either these men may have obtained training in Pakistan or may have used our territory as a transit point to go to Afghanistan,&quot; he said in a national address on Thursday.


So it was with the London bombers. Mohammad Sidique Khan, the Edgware Road bomber, and Shehzad Tanweer, who blew himself and seven others up at Aldgate, were in Pakistan between November 19, 2004 and February 8 this year. Inquiries continue into whether they and any of the other bombers spent time at any of Pakistan's estimated 14,000 madrassas, the religious schools that espouse a fundamentalist and sometimes violent form of Islam.


One line of inquiry being pursued by Scotland Yard detectives centres on the activities of the Hizb-u-Tehrir (The Party of Liberation) &quot;missionary&quot; group, which has offices in Lahore and London. &quot;Hizb-u-Tehrir members play a vital role in indoctrinating so many of the youth who are later on used in various missions of al-Qaeda,&quot; a Pakistani intelligence official said.


However, Hizb-u-Tehrir in the UK insisted last week that it rejected violence, armed struggle and terrorism. A spokesman said that the organisation was political and that the &quot;rules of Islam do not allow the harming of innocent civilians&quot;.


Al-Qaeda documents seized in the port city of Karachi indicate how the London bombers might have communicated with each other. Nearly 300 three-digit coded text messages for mobile phones were listed. To direct someone to go underground, the text message &quot;721&quot; was sent. The code &quot;352&quot; indicated that &quot;it is not a good time to meet&quot; while &quot;943&quot; directed: &quot;Contact me through MSN messenger&quot;. If a weapon was needed, this was communicated by &quot;730&quot;.


During their stay in Pakistan, Tanweer spent most of his time with relatives in Kottan, a village north of Faisalabad. Mohammed Khan visited him there twice. The Sunday Telegraph has learned that ISI officials now believe that Khan, thought to have been the leader of the London suicide team, spent much of his time in the country liaising with an al-Qaeda operative now considered central to the plot and whose identity is being revealed for the first time. ISI sources last week identified Kahn's contact as Mohammed Yasin, alias Ustad (&quot;the teacher&quot Osama, an explosives specialist with Harkat-e-Jihad. A veteran of terrorist training camps along the remote Afghan-Pakistani frontier (he lost two fingers in the course of his work), he is in his 30s and reputed to be an expert at manufacturing &quot;suicide jackets&quot;.


Yasin, included on a list of 70 &quot;most wanted&quot; terrorists issued by Pakistani officials in December, is believed to have prepared British Muslims to fight in Afghanistan and Bosnia. It is now suspected that he may have trained Khan in how to make the sort of home-made bombs used in the London attacks


MI5 is also seeking to establish whether Khan, a special-needs assistant at a primary school in Leeds, met Haroon Rashid Aswat, a 31-year-old Muslim of Indian descent, who is believed to have studied at the London School of Economics and who was once a senior aide to Abu Hamza, the radical hook-handed Finsbury Park cleric who was arrested in Britain last year. Aswat is regarded by the ISI as a prime suspect for masterminding the London bombings. Although there is no firm evidence that he is in Pakistan, the ISI has been desperately searching for him. Last week, a ceramics salesman from London who shared the same surname as Aswat spent 48 hours in custody after being arrested near Islamabad.


Pakistani investigators believe that in 2004 members of UK-based sleeper cells linked to al-Qaeda travelled to Pakistan to discuss acquiring the services of local &quot;suicide bombers&quot; and to arrange for them to travel to Britain to carry out attacks. The idea was dropped, however, because of the likelihood of detection when entering the country. Investigators believe that al-Qaeda figures in Pakistan instead suggested that British youths be recruited for suicide bombings. Their ideological suitability for such missions could then be assessed in Pakistan if necessary.


The question now is how many were recruited and trained - and how quickly MI5, Scotland Yard and their ISI counterparts can unravel the conspiracy and break the chain of terror that continues to threaten Britain. British anti-terrorist officers have long viewed Pakistan as having a dangerous ambivalence towards Islamist extremism. While General Musharraf announced on Thursday what appeared to be another tough crackdown against extremists, many see it as too late. It has only been after fierce American pressure following September 11 and, more particularly, since Islamists made concerted attempts to assassinate him that his rhetoric has been matched by apparent genuine determination.
</div></div>

[Gen]

Re: mumbai terror

aye sah.

and on that note, closing as requested.

[Sinco01]

Re: mumbai terror

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They had MULTIPLE identication documents with a variety of citizenships</div></div>

How many were there ?
&quot;Teams&quot; suggest more than 9 - 11 &quot;terrorists&quot; to attack ... 9 targets ? ? ?

this smells to me ..
the numbers don't match ..

[Tropicana]

Re: mumbai terror

Gen., locking down the thread is not going to make these disturbing realities go away. There IS a need to identify root causes and deal with them and FAST!!

For anyone who STILL thinks this is a non-issue, consider THIS disturving figure:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Poll: 1 in 4 U.S. Young Muslims OK With Homicide Bombings Against Civilians
Wednesday, May 23, 2007

E-Mail Print Share:

WASHINGTON — <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 23pt">One out of four young U.S. Muslims believe homicide bombings against civilians are OK to &quot;defend Islam,&quot; according to a new poll.</span></span>

The poll by the Pew Research Center also finds some Muslim Americans seem to be separating from mainstream America in their attitudes toward the War on Terror and U.S. Mideast policy. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 20pt">The study found that among the nation's younger Muslims, 26 percent say homicide bombings can at least rarely be justified &quot;in order to defend Islam from its enemies.&quot;</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;It is a hair-raising number,&quot;</span> said Radwan Masmoudi, president of the Washington-based Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy, which promotes the compatibility of Islam with democracy.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Click here to read the poll.


The poll briefly describes the rationales for and against &quot;suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets&quot; and then asks, &quot;Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified, or never justified?&quot;

</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Younger U.S. Muslims under the age of 30 are much more willing to accept homicide bombing in the defense of Islam than are their older counterparts, the study found.</span> While 69 percent of Muslims under 30 say homicide bombings are never justified, 2 percent say they're often justified, 13 percent say bombings are sometimes justified and 11 percent say they are rarely justified. Only 9 percent of older U.S. Muslims said homicide attacks are at least rarely justified.

In addition to young Muslims' attitudes towards homicide bombings, the study found that only 40 percent of U.S. Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the Sept. 11 attacks. Another 28 percent said they don't believe it.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, 53 percent said it's been more difficult to be Muslim in America.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">The Pew poll also found that almost half of the nation's Muslims are more likely to identify themselves as Muslims first and then Americans, with 47 percent placing religious affiliation above nationality</span>.</span>

</div></div>

And these are young people who have been raised in the USA.

Source

[Tropicana]

Re: mumbai terror

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sinco01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They had MULTIPLE identication documents with a variety of citizenships</div></div>

How many were there ?
&quot;Teams&quot; suggest more than 9 - 11 &quot;terrorists&quot; to attack ... 9 targets ? ? ?

this smells to me ..
the numbers don't match .. </div></div>

Some reports say there were 10 who went out in teams of 2. Other reports say there were up to 40.

It's hard to believe that 10 in teams of 2 could have created so much havoc. Remember, some of the gunmen were staying as guests at the hotels, at least 2 were hotel employees.

Perhaps the 10 are just those who arrived by boat. Clearly there were more sleeper elements than just the 2 working at the Taj.

[sistacaf]

Re: mumbai terror

CNN said there were <span style="font-weight: bold">60</span>

[Gen]

Re: mumbai terror

as mi seh

closing

unnu stop from open up the chread back

[Boricua_papi]

Re: mumbai terror

A terrorist can say anything. Doesn't mean they are being truthful. Maybe there target wasn't westerners per se but the complacency that settles in any prosperous city.

By the way, Mossad is likely to track down those responsible as they had done during the Munich Olympics massacre. We just won't here about it which is okay with me. Sometimes justice is best served in a dark alley where no one sees or hears a thing.

[Gen]

Re: mumbai terror

yup after what happened at that chabbad house, the israeli intelligence gwine mek dem pay

dem gwine wish dem did nevah tek dem on