Sellout

[purejam]

People progress not by uniting around skin colour, but having combinations of one or more of the following: strong national identity, strong religious identity, strong political identity, strong cultural identity/

Holding on to an identity based on skin colour given by those who conquered and enslaved creates the kind of inward looking, confidence stripping, small mindedness that judges people on the basis of the skin colour of who they love.

I'm glad my daughters have married men of Caribbean culture because we share cultural values and norms. However, I am far, far, far more happy because they are married to men of strong character and principle, who are devoted them, trustworthy, hardworking, family oriented, respectful and honest. These characteristics define my daughters and their husbands in a way that skin colour cannot.

If one of my daughters had married a Caucasian, she would not have been a sell out because she would have been being true to herself.

[purejam]

You are mudding the waters. A sellout is someone like a Judas. The expression comes from Judas selling out Jesus. It has nothing to do with exploiting someone. Bag a wire allegedly sold out (betrayed) Marcus Garvey.

Now the consequence of selling someone out is that they could get exploited (e.g. returned to slavery).

The term sellout comes from the 19th century. It does not come from biblical times.

[purejam]

You are mudding the waters. A sellout is someone like a Judas. The expression comes from Judas selling out Jesus. It has nothing to do with exploiting someone. Bag a wire allegedly sold out (betrayed) Marcus Garvey.

Now the consequence of selling someone out is that they could get exploited (e.g. returned to slavery).



A black man who hooks up with a white woman at at time when there is a severe shortage in partners for Black women is regarded as a sellout because he is being disloyal.

Does this make it any clearer?

I think you should re-read my post rather than misquoting as it does nothing for the point you're trying to make.

[Tropicana]

I am far, far, far more happy because they are married to men of strong character and principle, who are devoted them, trustworthy, hardworking, family oriented, respectful and honest.

In a world in which the playing field is level, character should be the only consideration along with the ability to support the children.

Don't even come with the Christian thing. I am a born again Christian and White supposedly born again Christian men are the WORST when it comes to having shallow, sexist values and discriminating against women who aren't white.

Christianity Today once said many are waiting for Pamela Anderson to convert...that's how shallow they are.

Don't get me started.

[Tropicana]

Still waiting for you to answer me over here PureJam....I guess I am invisible.

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/showthread.php?144450-sellout-defend-uglee-wife/page7

[purejam]

Still waiting for you to answer me over here PureJam....I guess I am invisible.

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/show...lee-wife/page7

Mi dun ansa dat.

Yuh is anyting but hinvisble!!!

[purejam]

In a world in which the playing field is level, character should be the only consideration along with the ability to support the children.

Don't even come with the Christian thing. I am a born again Christian and White supposedly born again Christian men are the WORST when it comes to having shallow, sexist values and discriminating against women who aren't white.

Christianity Today once said many are waiting for Pamela Anderson to convert...that's how shallow they are.

Don't get me started.

I don't think you want me to get started on Christianity.

[blugiant]

The word sellout is used quite a lot in these forums but I don't think much thought goes into that use.

A sellout is someone that professes to be believe in something but then goes against that and those who believe in it.

So, if I man preach blakk dis, blakk dat an put miself fahwad as a blactivist and den lie down wid a white ooman an betray mi organisashun plan to dem dat waan mash it up, den me is a sellout.

But, consider this. There are around 3 million people in Jamaica and the same number of Jamaicans outside the country. Most of those 6 million are of African descent. Is there one common ideology 6 million should follow? Do we all think the same way about race? Who is to decide which view on race is right and which is wrong? Is there one right way?

Let's go again. There are approximately 1.5 billion African and African descent people in the world. Are we all supposed to have the same belief system about race because we have a certain amount of melanin that gives us similarities in skin colour?

Are those who chemicalise their hair rather than being natural sellouts?

Are those who cheat on their African descent partners sellouts?

Are those who do not feed, clothe, nurture, guide, love and discipline their children on a daily basis sellouts?

Are those who do not mentor African descent young sellouts?

Are those who join the armed forces (including the police) of western nations sellouts?

Those who betrayed Garvey, X and Lumumba probably never lay down with white women, but they are sellouts because they professed one thing whilst doing the opposite.

I'm told that the Koran states that someone who walks away from Islam is guilty of apostasy and can be sentenced to death. In other words, someone who is born into a Muslim is a sellout if he or she decides that it is not his or her belief. Surely, people have a choice to decide what they what believe and people can change their beliefs as they gain more experience and knowledge of life and living.

Finally, the continent we know as Africa was not united when our foreparents were taken from there. The many peoples of that continent did not regard themselves as one people, as an African people or race, or as a black people or race. They were lumped together as blacks by Europeans who ignored their many cultures, languages, belief systems and national identities.

As free people, our ancestors did not see themselves as black. Could it be that our slave and colonial experiences are confusing us so that we see black and white where they don't exist, to such an extent that people are blind to the realities of those who exercise power and those who have power exercised over them?

yuh wrote a latt mii affii goo deal widd diss piece by peace. oww wan choose fe define kultural sinting creates framewukk fe define blakk peeps. since yuh choose oyinbo definition fe cancieve blakk realitee den yuh definition aff sellout is based pon oyinbo realitee raddar dan blakk realitee. fii mii aff sellout iss based pon blakk realitee

Marcus Garvey:

"The white man has succeeded in subduing the world by forcing everybody to think his way. The white man?s propaganda has made him the master of the world. And those who have come in contact with it and accepted it have become his slaves."

again yuh definition aff sellout iss wan oyinbo definition. blakk peeps must define ann redefine owa own terms ann give dem meanin, da race first paradigm. blakk meaninn aff sellout iss bout a ting dat cannot be properlee fram oyinbo perspective




Marcus Garvey
Not all black men are willing to commit race suicide and to abhor their race for the companionship of another. There are hundreds of millions of us black men who are proud of our skins, and to us the African Empire will not be a Utopia, neither will it be dangerous, nor fail to serve our best interests, because we realize that, like the leopard, we cannot change our skins, and so long as black is black, and white is white, the black man shall occupy a position of inferiority depending upon the justice of the great white race to lead and direct him. No race in the world is so just as to give to others a square deal in things economical, political, social and otherwise.

yuh know da furst pan afrikkan canference was organized by wan sellout ann da addar blakks forced imm fe stepp dunn cah aff da kulutural framework imm was cumminn fram

[Tropicana]

The term sellout comes from the 19th century. It does not come from biblical times.

it does too and then it was applied to people of African descent selling each other out during slavery.

[Tropicana]

Mi dun ansa dat.

Yuh is anyting but hinvisble!!!

I am not getting enough attention.

I must have my share in the conversation.

Lady Catherine deBough

05:15

[franksterr]

The word sellout is used quite a lot in these forums but I don't think much thought goes into that use.

A sellout is someone that professes to be believe in something but then goes against that and those who believe in it.

Yes...A sellout in my opinion is one who goes against that which he professes to believe.

So, if I man preach blakk dis, blakk dat an put miself fahwad as a blactivist and den lie down wid a white ooman an betray mi organisashun plan to dem dat waan mash it up, den me is a sellout.

No...that's not entirely truth depending on what your definition of blacktivist is.
In my opinion a blactivist is one who fights for the Rights of black people.........not one who hates or dislikes white people.
Anyone who hates or dislikes white people because of their skin color are bigots and ignoramuses.

But, consider this. There are around 3 million people in Jamaica and the same number of Jamaicans outside the country. Most of those 6 million are of African descent. Is there one common ideology 6 million should follow? Do we all think the same way about race? Who is to decide which view on race is right and which is wrong? Is there one right way?

No.... we do not hold one common ideology nor do we all think the same way about the races.
Yes there is a right way in which to view race.......We are all one Race - the Human Race.
Having a preference for one race or the other is not racist but should be seen as racial.

Let's go again. There are approximately 1.5 billion African and African descent people in the world. Are we all supposed to have the same belief system about race because we have a certain amount of melanin that gives us similarities in skin colour?

The amount of melanin one has should not dictate your belief system, but if similar melaninated people are being persecuted for being so, then it behooves you and all peoples to rally in support of the end of that persecution.
All humans should have the same view on Race.....which is that there is but one Race all so called Races are Human beings.

Are those who chemicalise their hair rather than being natural sellouts?

Yes... to the extent that it perpetuates the belief that there is one standard of beauty

Are those who cheat on their African descent partners sellouts?

Are those who do not feed, clothe, nurture, guide, love and discipline their children on a daily basis sellouts?

Are those who do not mentor African descent young sellouts?

Are those who join the armed forces (including the police) of western nations sellouts?

Those who betrayed Garvey, X and Lumumba probably never lay down with white women, but they are sellouts because they professed one thing whilst doing the opposite.

In marriage one often takes vows of fidelity, to break that vow is an act that can be so construed - sell out.
To not care for your offspring is to neglect your God given duty (Natural Mammalian) - sell out
As human beings were share a mutual bond to look out for one another young or old black or white.
Joining the armed forces is not an act of selling out but going against one's conscience is
It is my belief that neither Garvey nor Lumumba taught hatred of white people.

I'm told that the Koran states that someone who walks away from Islam is guilty of apostasy and can be sentenced to death. In other words, someone who is born into a Muslim is a sellout if he or she decides that it is not his or her belief. Surely, people have a choice to decide what they what believe and people can change their beliefs as they gain more experience and knowledge of life and living.

I have heard that and am not sure how true it is.

Finally, the continent we know as Africa was not united when our foreparents were taken from there. The many peoples of that continent did not regard themselves as one people, as an African people or race, or as a black people or race. They were lumped together as blacks by Europeans who ignored their many cultures, languages, belief systems and national identities.

True

As free people, our ancestors did not see themselves as black. Could it be that our slave and colonial experiences are confusing us so that we see black and white where they don't exist, to such an extent that people are blind to the realities of those who exercise power and those who have power exercised over them?

True our ancestor did not see themselves as blacks in a collective sense, but once confronted with the European ideology of race and force it became self evident.
There is no deny that Human beings differ on many levels, by groups culture and appearance. When an ideology exploits these difference by basing various assumptions on these differences for political, social, psychological or economic goals etc - they become very real and exist as weapons in their effects on populations being oppressed or exploited

Definitions of sellout

• A betrayal of one’s principles for reasons of expedience
• Selling out is the compromising of integrity, morality, authenticity or principles in exchange for personal gain, such as money
• A person who betrays a cause, organization, principles, etc., esp. for money or personal advantage; traitor
• A person who betrays a cause, organization, or the like; traitor
• A person who compromises his or her personal values, integrity, talent, or the like, for money or personal advancement
• To betray one's cause or associates especially for personal gain

I can accept those definitions as accurate.

Skin colour is not a cause or a principle, it's a biological fact. In Nigeria, Hausas and Igbos killed one another though they shared the same skin colour. In Rwanda, Hutus and Tutsis killed one another though they shared the same skin colour. Indians and Pakistanis killed each other in Kashmir despite having the same skin colour. Palestinians and Israelis kill each other though sharing the same skin colour. The 1914-18 and 1939-45 wars in which millions were killed, were wars between those who had the same skin colour. In each of these wars there were those who purported to support the cause of their nation/kins people but they went against what they proclaimed and betrayed their people. These are sellouts.

Yes skin color is biological
These peoples had ideological, political ethnic and tribal differences, not so called racial differences.

If someone claims to be a pan African and chooses a Caucasian, Asian or other non-African partner because of personal gain or expediency, that person is a sellout. If a man or woman of African descent decides to be with a non-African descent somebody, that is not selling out because he or she is not betraying a cause he or she signed up to.

I know of no Pan African Doctrine or Rule that states that one must not marry anyone outside of ones Race.....such doctrines tend to be religious - Pan African is Political

I prefer sistahs who proudly wear their hair in its naturally relaxed, but have learned that sistahs who terrorise their hair with impermanent/temporary chemicals are not selling out, because just because I hold a certain view on hair, it is my view, not the ideology of all African descent people.

That is true.
Then one must ask why do they feel the need to chemically treat their hair and what are they trying to achieve or imitate.
It is often the case that those who chemically treat their hair think it is more beautiful that way.....the roots of this concepts of beauty is often racist.
More important than resisting their chemicalized hair is to teach then to accept their natural self first and then all things will be added later if necessary or desired through preference....In other words rid them of the misconception of beauty first

In the same way, you believe that African and African descent people should only be with one another. Unless others sign up to this, preach it and then go against it, then if they choose

True to sell out is to go against your professed belief.
I believe such a doctrine would perpetuate the very thing it seeks to destroy - Racism

[blugiant]

So, if I man preach blakk dis, blakk dat an put miself fahwad as a blactivist and den lie down wid a white ooman an betray mi organisashun plan to dem dat waan mash it up, den me is a sellout.

But, consider this. There are around 3 million people in Jamaica and the same number of Jamaicans outside the country. Most of those 6 million are of African descent. Is there one common ideology 6 million should follow? Do we all think the same way about race? Who is to decide which view on race is right and which is wrong? Is there one right way?

yuh mean like dem blakk panthers ann sum aff dem civil wrang peeps.

latt aff jamaicans ar miseducated dat y so manee blakk jamaicans will argue dat jamaica ave a class prablem narr a race problem even dough moas aff de peeps pon da battam blakk like dem. mii doan reallee cancern miiself widd dose blakk peeps woo ar so brainwashed ann conditioned by oyinbo dat dem doan reallee recognized oyinbo wurld view. ar yuh tinkin fi yuhself ar ave yuh been trained by oyinbo fe accept oyinbo cancept aff realitee dat mekk dem superior. woo cantrol oww yuh tink cah yuh been candition to accept dat blakk peeps definition aff race sellout iss flawed because natt awl blakk tink da same way. oww do competinn ideologee uplift blakks

oww do yuh define race? iss itt yur defenition ar oyinbo definition aff race? iss itt da meaninn dat chatt bout campetition among racial group. race iss like mzungu cah dem boat ave multiple meaninn ann da meaninn yuh choose shape yuh mindset. mii choose da blakk meaninn cah mii doan accept oyinbo divide ann conquer ideologee

yuh gitt wat mii arguinn? ar yuh buyinn inna oyinbo individualistic ideologee cah yuh arguinn dat blakk individuals ar natt accountable to da blakk communitee. yuh position iss based pon egoism dat oyinbo way fe cantrol peeps.

so y yuh doan tink blakk shood hold sellouts accountable

[franksterr]

yuh mean like dem blakk panthers ann sum aff dem civil wrang peeps.

latt aff jamaicans ar miseducated dat y so manee blakk jamaicans will argue dat jamaica ave a class prablem narr a race problem even dough moas aff de peeps pon da battam blakk like dem. mii doan reallee cancern miiself widd dose blakk peeps woo ar so brainwashed ann conditioned by oyinbo dat dem doan reallee recognized oyinbo wurld view. ar yuh tinkin fi yuhself ar ave yuh been trained by oyinbo fe accept oyinbo cancept aff realitee dat mekk dem superior. woo cantrol oww yuh tink cah yuh been candition to accept dat blakk peeps definition aff race sellout iss flawed because natt awl blakk tink da same way. oww do competinn ideologee uplift blakks

oww do yuh define race? iss itt yur defenition ar oyinbo definition aff race? iss itt da meaninn dat chatt bout campetition among racial group. race iss like mzungu cah dem boat ave multiple meaninn ann da meaninn yuh choose shape yuh mindset. mii choose da blakk meaninn cah mii doan accept oyinbo divide ann conquer ideologee

yuh gitt wat mii arguinn? ar yuh buyinn inna oyinbo individualistic ideologee cah yuh arguinn dat blakk individuals ar natt accountable to da blakk communitee. yuh position iss based pon egoism dat oyinbo way fe cantrol peeps.

so y yuh doan tink blakk shood hold sellouts accountable

Though most will not accept or give him the credit Manley effectively destroyed Jamaica's Race and Class issues what left is - Colorism.
Colorism is a residual effect left back by racism mostly expressed in Jamaica as a matter of aesthetics

[blugiant]

Though most will not accept or give him the credit Manley effectively destroyed Jamaica's Race and Class issues what left is - Colorism.
Colorism is a residual effect left back by racism mostly expressed in Jamaica as a matter of aesthetics

explain to me oww manley effectivelee destroyed race ann class issues? colorism iss racism ann itt more dan a simple matter aff aesthetic?

[blugiant]

Let's go again. There are approximately 1.5 billion African and African descent people in the world. Are we all supposed to have the same belief system about race because we have a certain amount of melanin that gives us similarities in skin colour?

again yuh using oyinbo individualistic ideologee to interpret blakk peeps xxperience cah yuh been canditioned to see wat oyinbo want yuh fe see? afrikkan wurld view must be view troo blakk kultural lense to understand afrikkan conciousness. addar group ave ann use group identification fe uplift demselves butt oyinbo candition blakks dat dem diffarant ann doan ave da same beleef system so unitee alang racial line fe blakk iss natt da solution. mental slaveree ting ann argument oyinbo use fe miseducate blakks to foster divide ann conquer.

oyinbo race cut across ethnic, class ann religions lines butt now fe strenghten oyinbo supremacee dem tryinn fe do away widd itt ann sum blakks woo doan see da game jumpinn pon oyinbo bandwagon by chattinn bout doinn away blakk race.