No guns for you!

[Wahalla]

Re: No guns for you!

Sorry Humano what would you say is the low murder rate for mandiville???

Does this include people who are shot by the police and liecened gun owners.. I am sorry but the killing of people by guns is still too common in Jamaica.....I know buinsess are held up in Mandiville.. There was a armed robery at a number of cambios there over the last 5 years.. There was that kidnapping at gun point of the buisness man and his wife.. It would be interesting to look at the number of popel killed in police area 2.. Clarendon Mancheste and St E.....

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tons of guns flood into Jamaica from the US.</div></div>

You have absolutely no proof of this!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really can't imagine why it is so hard to stop the influx of guns. </div></div>
There is also an influx of unaccustomed consumer goods, drugs, bad roads, deteriorating infrastructure, etc.
There has barely being a Government in Jamaica for decades. Added to the problem of Jamaica's everlasting Coastline is the problem of bad governance.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No guns for you!

It is the most puerile nonsense to claim that Jamaica’s high incidence of violence is a holdover from slavery. By the numbers the incidence of violent acts ratcheted up starting from the 70s.
As the Doctor said many Jamaican live peacefully among their brethrens abroad. Many Posters have also commented that folks in Beverley Hills and elsewhere seem to live peacefully and quietly, going about their own business without attacking their neighbours for GP.

Jamaican Gangs in Jamaica and abroad are a marked departure from the norm. The question is why. Are the posters who so frequently return to slavery well able to explain why only some of our descendants retain this violent streak from slavery?

[rudemonk]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tons of guns flood into Jamaica from the US.</div></div>

You have absolutely no proof of this!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really can't imagine why it is so hard to stop the influx of guns. </div></div>
There is also an influx of unaccustomed consumer goods, drugs, bad roads, deteriorating infrastructure, etc.
There has barely being a Government in Jamaica for decades. Added to the problem of Jamaica's everlasting Coastline is the problem of bad governance.
</div></div>

well where do you think most guns are made. I'll be the first to admit I am ignorant as to the existence of Jamaica's gun manufacturing industry.

also, while it is true that lots of other things get into the country, I don't think one could tie such delitrious effects to them all in the same way.

both points, I might ad, are not exactly relevant to the issue of gun deaths being raised and how to address the problem.

[rudemonk]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Still I recall my father not being able to get a gun liecence for personal protection.. This was after several people threatened our lives and the police told him that it was suffera time suh dem nah duh nuting....

</div></div>

but walhalla, would you say that in such an instance as that you need to find a gun, there were none available to your father? putting aside the legal or illegal term as ascribed to the weapon.

removing that qualifier I don't see how it is difficult to get a gun.

what did your father do?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well where do you think most guns are made.</div></div>

This not proof that:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tons of guns flood into Jamaica from the US.</div></div>

[rudemonk]

Re: No guns for you!

well the proof need only be found in the origin of the manufacturing.

and then you can say, perhaps anecdotally, that if you know where to get an illegal gun, you know a bit of it's provenance and how it arrives.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well the proof need only be found in the origin of the manufacturing.

and then you can say, perhaps anecdotally, that if you know where to get an illegal gun, you know a bit of it's provenance and how it arrives. </div></div>

You are talking nonsense.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">both points, I might ad, are not exactly relevant to the issue of gun deaths being raised and how to address the problem. </div></div>

I think they are very relevant....a broken state cannot secoure its borders, protect its people or enforce its laws.

[jah_yout]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bandanna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your people do bad it can't help but to reflect upon you in the eye of a bigger picture...




now mek mi go watch the 2nd part of this video where this discussion actually comes into play

</div></div>

a soh me feel...it's in this part

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[Dyoll_73]

Re: No guns for you!

TG,
I speak from an unfortunate position of personal experience in this regard. I must have been 8 or 9 years old, and a few feet away from my father, when he opened fire on a <span style="font-weight: bold">gunman</span>, who had demanded &quot;weh di gun deh?&quot; It was around 7:30 in the evening and my father had just come home and was just outside, about to enter the house. Luckily for the gunman, he was hurt, but not killed. It turns out he had worked for my father at some point (my father was in the construction business). My cousin, an ex-JDF officer (you may know him if I say his name) had a similar experience with <span style="font-weight: bold">gunmen</span> some years ago.

Normally, I'm inclined to accept the 'self preservation' (mutually assured destruction?) argument, but based on what has been reported, and talking with my uncle, a police officer, I'm yet to be persuaded. On its face, it's a plausible argument, but I'm not sure how it plays out in real life. A lot of people have been targeted by <span style="font-weight: bold">gunmen</span> simply because they have firearms. Funny enough, the people relieved of their legal firearms, are not always killed, and for various reasons, some of those stories are not published in the media. The need for self preservation has never stopped the perpetrators from committing certain gruesome crimes in 'high risk' environments. Self preservation pre-supposes some level of rationality, and it may appear that self preservation is a natural instict, but how many times have you seen on the news the case of the 'stupid criminal?' On the other hand, there are some 'crafty' criminals who will enter high risk environments without fear. Just as I'm not yet pursuaded that the death penalty deters crime, I'm also not persuaded that widening the pool of gun owners will <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">itself</span></span> significantly reduce murders and armed robberies. But I'm open to being convinced.

As I said before, my concern is over the unintended consequences of increased legal gun ownership. I'm not against more Jamaicans legally owning firearms. Also, as I said before, if I live in Jamaica, I definitely would want my piece.

[jah_yout]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

you speak true words...but

like i said if a war den a juss war;

at some point people who treasure jamaica will have to be willing to fight to save it;
lip service time done;

<span style="font-weight: bold">did i mention my shame of being the people who murder each other the most on the planet?</span>
decent people will have to decide if they want to fight for jamaica or run to farrin </div></div>

1. why you shame?
2. don't think jamaica has the highest murder rate on the planet.
</div></div>

is that something i should be proud of??

yea man a jamaica me come from...we kill each other at a higher rate than you guys- big it up!
yes i'm ashamed..
you can barely read or watch anything on jamaica without them mentioning this...
have you seen this docum
http://english.aljazeera.net/program...510408444.html </div></div>

it's nothing to be either ashamed or proud of. it's what it is. i'm sure there are other countries with higher murder rates. not that we shouldn't try to bring the rate down in Jamaica, but a sense of shame is not a motivating force.

&quot;according to the united nations jamaica has one of the highest murder rates in the world&quot;...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not that we shouldn't try to bring the rate down in Jamaica</div></div>
ya think?!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but a sense of shame is not a motivating force</div></div>
for me it is...
i want my nation to be able to hold its head up high instead of being a symbol of deadly self-hatred

[Dyoll_73]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry Humano what would you say is the low murder rate for mandiville???

Does this include people who are shot by the police and liecened gun owners.. I am sorry but the killing of people by guns is still too common in Jamaica.....I know buinsess are held up in Mandiville.. There was a armed robery at a number of cambios there over the last 5 years.. There was that kidnapping at gun point of the buisness man and his wife.. It would be interesting to look at the number of popel killed in police area 2.. Clarendon Mancheste and St E..... </div></div>

Yeah, I know of these cases. But it's still lower in proportion to Kingston, certain urban areas of St Catherine, and even Montego Bay.

I take your larger point, though: even one murder is too many.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No guns for you!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TG,
I speak from an unfortunate position of personal experience in this regard. </div></div>

Okay let's move to the Bio-Optic.

I was on my way to school one morning a man who was opening up his store was accosted by two men, who promptly shot him in the head. I stepped past his writhing body and went to school, I heard on the evening news that a man was shot and killed, while opening his shop at x street.

I have been held up with guns on at least four occasions; on one of those I was shot. On the others I was able to defend myself, only once did I have a weapon, it was a gun and we traded bullets from a distance.
Once I saw a man robbing a woman on a bus, I was armed. I pulled out my gun and jammed it in his ribs. I never pulled the trigger but I yanked him off the bus, he ran away, leaving the woman's purse.

The first time I was ever held up it was with a kitchen [censored]. I must have been 10 years old returning from a school trip. Knives and other weapons are highly regulated in Jamaica as well.

One night I was sitting in a yard with tow other guys. Bleaching, watching out for invaders <span style="font-style: italic">(or so we thought)</span>. One of the guys who had taken refuge in the area came by. He had a .25 chrome pistol, which he was gently caressing in his palms. He told us that if he ever saw a P C Claath Babylon bwoy he was going to let him have it.
He walked to the back of the yard. He hadn't taken 100 steps when a jump out rounded the corner. Out jumped about three cops. They spotted us my friends wanted to run but I told them no because if we ran to the back they would follow us and mostly likely would meet our suicidal friend and the bag of guns stored in the building.
Of course the policemen ruffed us up and threatened to shoot us.
Fast forward to the next two weeks when our suicidal friend was walking down the road with pistol stuck in his waist but out of sight covered by his shirt. Cops pulled up. One cop came off the Jeep, patted him down and found the gun.
He quickly yelled out, the bwoy have a gun. Right there and then they let him have it.

A few years later it was my turn. I was never a thereat to the Joint Police Military Patrol, that Sunday and with my mom and scores of folks looking on they tried to assassinate me. It was just my quick reflex that caused me to duck behind a telephone pole.
The SLR Bullet struck the pole went through and split the pole. At the Police Station the Joint Police Military Patrol reported that I had pulled a gun on them.

My friend I don't own a gun, don't want one but if I do I know when, where, how to get it and how to use it. I think we should leave personal experiences out of this argument because any story that can be told here I can top it.

[jah_yout]

Re: No guns for you!

ross...TG a ruffneck clint eastwood