Question fi de Yankee Dem

[Tropicana]

Onoo system WAY too complicated.



First the primaries, then the national conventions, then the election then the electoral college. I got my head around all the electoral college business at university. I was in the USA and they explained that to us in political science.

Now with this Stimulus business....is pure confusion again. I thought the House of Representatives and the Senate already passed it. Why does it have to go BACK to the House of Representatives? Why doesn't Obama just sign it and DONE? WAY too complicated. Is how much time dem ave fe vote pon de same said ting.

Somebody bruk dis dung fi mi noh man. While you're at it mi noh understand de primary business at all at all at all. Explain dat too.

Tonx.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Question fi de Yankees

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Onoo system WAY too complicated.



First the primaries, then the national conventions, then the election then the electoral college. I got my head around all the electoral college business at university. I was in the USA and they explained that to us in political science.

Now with this Stimulus business....is pure confusion again. I thought the House of Representatives and the Senate already passed it. Why does it have to go BACK to the House of Representatives? Why doesn't Obama just sign it and DONE? WAY too complicated. Is how much time dem ave fe vote pon de same said ting.

Somebody bruk dis dung fi mi noh man. While you're at it mi noh understand de primary business at all at all at all. Explain dat too.

Tonx.
</div></div>

Bills are ratified in the House before signed into law.

[Tropicana]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

But didn't the Congress and Senate already vote to pass the bill. Why dem ave fe vote twice? It noh mek NO sense.

[halfwaytree]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

I agree.

The House, the Senate, the re-write, the House and then the President.

Too much bureaucracy!!!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But didn't the Congress and Senate already vote to pass the bill. Why dem ave fe vote twice? It noh mek NO sense. </div></div>The House makes the rules. So the House votes on a version of the Bill. The Bill gets sent to the Senate, which votes on its own version.
Finally it gets sent back to the House where it is ratified.
Then to Desk of the POTUS where he can sign, veto <span style="font-style: italic">(depending on the votes)</span> or send it back <span style="font-style: italic">(I think)</span>.

The House I think can draw up no debate bills which would force the Senate to Vote on it one way or another <span style="font-style: italic">(not to sure about this part, but I am relying on my little knowledge)</span>.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milo Man*</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree.

The House, the Senate, the re-write, the House and then the President.

Too much bureaucracy!!! </div></div>....Nope checks and balances that is what a Bi-carmel Legislature is about.

[Serenity82]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Onoo system WAY too complicated.



First the primaries, then the national conventions, then the election then the electoral college. I got my head around all the electoral college business at university. I was in the USA and they explained that to us in political science.

Now with this Stimulus business....is pure confusion again. I thought the House of Representatives and the Senate already passed it. Why does it have to go BACK to the House of Representatives? Why doesn't Obama just sign it and DONE? WAY too complicated. Is how much time dem ave fe vote pon de same said ting.

Somebody bruk dis dung fi mi noh man. While you're at it mi noh understand de primary business at all at all at all. Explain dat too.

Tonx.
</div></div>

It confuses us as well. There are so many reasons why a bill will have to pass through even different committees within government.

[queenb]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

1. How a bill goes through Congress and becomes a law can be a very complex procedure, or it can zip through Congress if it is considered very important that it be enacted. Basically, here are the steps from bill to law.
2. In the House, any member may introduce a bill by dropping it into a box, called a hopper.
3. In the Senate, a member may introduce a bill after being recognized by the presiding officer and announcing the bill’s introduction. (Bills dealing with raising money must originate in the House of Representatives.)
4. The bill is then given a prefix and a number. H.R. 33 would be House Resolution 33 and S.B. 44 would be Senate Bill 44.
5. Once a bill is introduced, it goes to a committee for study. The committee in the Senate or the House basically do the same thing, that is they study the bill, hold hearings on the content of the bill, send it to a subcommittee if they feel it necessary for more study, and then vote on it and report it to the floor of the Senate or House where it is placed on the calendar for action. The House and Senate then debate the bill and vote on whether to pass or reject the bill. Most bills never get out of commitee.
6. Once a bill is passed by either house, it has to be in the exact same language and set up.
7. If a bill passes the Senate but it is not exactly as the one that passes the House, a conference committee is created to work out the final wording of the bill.
8. <span style="font-weight: bold">It then goes back the each house where it is voted on again in its new form. The bill is then sent to the President. </span>
9. The President can sign the bill into law, veto it and return it to Congress with his objections to the bill, or do nothing.
10. If he vetoes the bill, the Congress may override the veto by a two-thirds majority vote in both houses. It then becomes law without the approval of the President.
11. The President has ten days to sign or veto the bill. If, after ten days, Congress is not in session, the bill does not become law. This is known as a pocket veto.

The Source

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem


In Jamaica, which has a Bicameral Legislature it is similar except the Upper House, the Senate is merely a rubber stamp.... I need correction here!

[Tropicana]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

Wow queenb. I am glad I asked the question. It's even more complicated than I thought.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5. Once a bill is introduced, it goes to a committee for study. The committee in the Senate or the House basically do the same thing, that is they study the bill, hold hearings on the content of the bill, send it to a subcommittee if they feel it necessary for more study, and then vote on it and report it to the floor of the Senate or House where it is placed on the calendar for action. The House and Senate then debate the bill and vote on whether to pass or reject the bill. Most bills never get out of commitee. </div></div>

SO much red tape and clearly I am not the only one who was confused. You've helped clear things up. Thanks.

Now would anyone like to tackle the primary business. What's up with that? Why are primaries needed?

One other thing I want to make sure I have this right

Does the Congress = House of Representatives + The Senate?

OR

Does the House of Representatives = The Congress + The Senate?

I guess I should have paid more attention in Poly Sci. The course I took while in the USA focused on Black political movements so I don't even remember if we covered this.
OR

[Tropicana]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In Jamaica, which has a Bicameral Legislature it is similar except the Upper House, the Senate is merely a rubber stamp.... I need correction here! </div></div>

Well kind of but the Upper House doesn't have to pass it. As far as I understand, in Canada, Jamaica and the UK, once it passes the 2 houses, it goes to the Queen (or the Governor General Representiing her) for signature. Veto is possible at that point but I don't believe it has ever been exercises. Please correct me if I am wrong. The US President seems to have a lot more power than the Prime Ministers.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In Jamaica, which has a Bicameral Legislature it is similar except the Upper House, the Senate is merely a rubber stamp.... I need correction here! </div></div>

Well kind of but the Upper House doesn't have to pass it. As far as I understand, in Canada, Jamaica and the UK, once it passes the 2 houses, it goes to the Queen (or the Governor General Representing her) for signature. Veto is possible at that point but I don't believe it has ever been exercises. Please correct me if I am wrong. The US President seems to have a lot more power than the Prime Ministers. </div></div>Rather the upper house is the opposite of a 'rubber stamp'. It is the exact opposite.
the Jamaican constitution is so written that for any political party to create any laws capable of improving the country,they have to get 2/3 of each house. the senate is rigged to give the winning party 1 less than 2/3. so irrespective of what the people wishes, the opposition is always in the way. it is the most repressive colonial strategy to keep the people enslaved.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The US President seems to have a lot more power than the Prime Ministers. </div></div>

The other way around the Prime Ministers have a lot more power.
The typical Prime Minster of a British Commonwealth is a part of the House, so it hardly likely that a Bill is going to come from of him/her that they did not have a direct hand in from start to finish <span style="font-style: italic">(including debates)</span>.
In the USA the Executive Branch is separate from the House and Senate and generally has to conform to stipulation of the House and Senate when Bills are proposed, debated and voted on. The POTUS does posses a Veto but it can only be exercised certain condition and even then runs the risk of p---- off Congress which is not what you want to do for four years.

[Wahalla]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

I think the reason it went / goes backj down is that the Senate made some changes to it.....So to ensure that the changes dont change the spirit of the bill it goes back down.. sort of a feed back loop.. this is a case where there are implications of practicalityc and ideoloy that makes the bail out bill dangerous depending on what perspective that you look at it.. It will be compromises... (Of particular concern was the buy America aspect which implies the raising of spectre further tarrifs on imports)


And I think the Jamaican senate can change a law... or refuse to ratify it...

Simple really.. We need upper houses.. there is a case during the French revolutiuon where there was a single house when during the first flush of revolutionary zeal they threw out the literally the entire canon of laws and it led to chaos....

I think the prime ministers of parlimentary democrasies have advantages and disadvangtages.. They are as Tuffy puts it subject to the discipline of parliment and the are controled by presidents / traditions....For instance they can mislead parliment but htye cant tell an out right lie....Being parlimentary with the truth is an expression that the Indians have...

[Wahalla]

Re: Question fi de Yankee Dem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In Jamaica, which has a Bicameral Legislature it is similar except the Upper House, the Senate is merely a rubber stamp.... I need correction here! </div></div>

Well kind of but the Upper House doesn't have to pass it. As far as I understand, in Canada, Jamaica and the UK, once it passes the 2 houses, it goes to the Queen (or the Governor General Representiing her) for signature. Veto is possible at that point but I don't believe it has ever been exercises. Please correct me if I am wrong. The US President seems to have a lot more power than the Prime Ministers. </div></div>

Actually if the the upper house makes changes to any bill in the UK and Jamaica it has to go back down to the lower house.. There are cases during the Thacther Era when there was a more confrontational style that the Lords sent back down a number of bills.. I can recall cases in the Senate in Jamaica that they sent back down bills. Lend Lease I beleive was a case in point...The power is different in the UK than in the States.. It is not in any ones intrest to have legistlation rejected.. Thus major legistlation is debated in committe. this is especially true of technical bills and compromises are reached... However because of the confrontational nature of parliment more often that not they vote according to party lines.. And the party whips do the deals to ensure all MPS vote according to line... Back benchers are paired with each other ie goverment MPS with oppostion MPS so if some are missing from a vote their pair wont vote...

Course there is a case of open votes on moral issues.. like abortion in the UK house.. and hanging when MPS get to vote their consience