daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

[britisha]

Re: daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

As I said in my previous posts about this topic, this is a clear sign that Jamaica mashup...Daggering, the song and the dance are symptoms of a society that is teetering on the brink of social and economic collapse. Those caught up in the vortex cannot see what those who are not, can see.This is a clear case of <span style="font-weight: bold">fyah deh a ratta tail</span>..

From reading TG;s post, I am asking again, what if subculture Jamaicans were to shift and give the same intensity of thought as they do daggering, to our real problems? If and when we finally wake up and see the shambles our dear country is in, including the high crime rate and social behaviourd that intensify it, hopefully it won't be too late...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I said in my previous posts about this topic, this is a clear sign that Jamaica mashup...Daggering, the song and the dance are symptoms of a society that is teetering on the brink of social and economic collapse. Those caught up in the vortex cannot see what those who are not, can see.This is a clear case of <span style="font-weight: bold">fyah deh a ratta tail</span>..</div></div>
I think we are way past the teetering stage.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From reading TG;s post, I am asking again, what if subculture Jamaicans were to shift and give the same intensity of thought as they do daggering, to our real problems? If and when we finally wake up and see the shambles our dear country is in, including the high crime rate and social behaviourd that intensify it, hopefully it won't be too late... </div></div>It is not going to happen...well not in this generation I think it will be two decades before we will come to our senses. It will take a complete purging of the political and social establishment as it is for change to come to Jamaica.
I was hoping that enlightened Jamaicans who have fled the Rock and can look forward would lead the charge but that hope has diminished as well.

[britisha]

Re: daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

<span style="font-weight: bold">I was hoping that enlightened Jamaicans who have fled the Rock and can look forward would lead the charge but that hope has diminished as well.</span>

How enlightened are the enlightened...plenty a dem fling stone behind dem..dem noh bizniz...they are waiting for the Messiah; or feel cowad man kip sounbone...even to post on some Jamaican message boards is risky...so go figgah.

So, there is really noone to bell the cat BUT we talk and talk and talk, while the silence is deafening...


.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I was hoping that enlightened Jamaicans who have fled the Rock and can look forward would lead the charge but that hope has diminished as well.</span>

How enlightened are the enlightened...plenty a dem fling stone behind dem..dem noh bizniz...they are waiting for the Messiah; or feel cowad man kip sounbone...even to post on some Jamaican message boards is risky...so go figgah.

So, there is really noone to bell the cat BUT we talk and talk and talk, while the silence is deafening...</div></div>I can well imagine why some Jamaicans would as you say thrown stone behind them.... but what I have been trying to determine over all these years of especially being on this board what is wrong?
Why would we not come together and put pressure on the elected officials?
I still cannot find and answer to that question.

[britisha]

Re: daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I was hoping that enlightened Jamaicans who have fled the Rock and can look forward would lead the charge but that hope has diminished as well.</span>

How enlightened are the enlightened...plenty a dem fling stone behind dem..dem noh bizniz...they are waiting for the Messiah; or feel cowad man kip sounbone...even to post on some Jamaican message boards is risky...so go figgah.

So, there is really no one to bell the cat BUT we talk and talk and talk, while the silence is deafening...</div></div>I can well imagine why some Jamaicans would as you say thrown stone behind them.... but what I have been trying to determine over all these years of especially being on this board what is wrong?
Why would we not come together and put pressure on the elected officials?
I still cannot find and answer to that question. </div></div>

Fear is a part of it, and another part is, we are not of one accord when it comes on to issues of a political nature. If one want to be candid and honest, tribalism exists in every facet of some of us lives, and even on SOME MESSAGE BOARDS. Some people might be out of the country, but you cannot get the country out of them; and some even show allegiance to parties although them leff dere donkie years now; and have witnessed what the 2 paawties have done to Jamaica..

i think many love the status quo and wouldn't be in any hurry to change it.

As for those at home, remember that many of them view those who migrated as foreigners...they have even stated that some of us ran away and better not tell them anything about how to solve any problem, muchless &quot;how to run the country..&quot;** Therefore, on that note, it is going to take a lot of effort among both sides...the farrinas and the locals...to come together and see things as they are, minus the allegiance that cause us to be in this rut in the first place..becozz of of this, some give up an soh dem throw up dere hands and seh wha fi duh..

**experienced this about 16 years ago at home, and the smaddie whey told mi dat was a small islander at that...


but I digress...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: daggering debate rages on wid di intelligensia ropin een

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fear is a part of it...</div></div>This I can dig, but I think it is irrational because there are ways to influence and make a difference that wont put one's self, friend’s of family in front of the firing squad. I mean we post things of a critical nature daily on various BBs, the only thing is we never direct that critique towards change.... Well at least I have not seen anything to suggest that. In the time I have been here and on other BBs I have only seen a total of two (2) Petitions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....and another part is, we are not of one accord when it comes on to issues of a political nature. If one want to be candid and honest, tribalism exists in every facet of some of us lives, and even on <span style="text-decoration: line-through">SOME</span> <span style="color: #CC0000"> <span style="font-weight: bold">ALL</span></span> MESSAGE BOARDS. Some people might be out of the country, but you cannot get the country out of them; and some even show allegiance to parties although them leff dere donkie years now; and have witnessed what the 2 paawties have done to Jamaica.</div></div>
I am also in agreement with this and I can say the personal problems for me for instance on this BB and all other Jamaicans BBs that I have ever contributed to was based on difference of opinion on Politics and Religion.
We are unfortunately very tribal and there is no sense that we will abandon our collective polemics anytime too soon.

I do have one thing to say on that though. At one point or the other each of us has commented negatively on each of the same or similar items about Jamaica that we have disagreed with because of the noms de plume certain members. So we have comon ground, even in a roundabout manner. It should in my opinion not require a great leap of faith, if we agree that we have the power to do something about the problems on the Rock, to put aside our personal differences, the better to focus our efforts on change.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....i think many love the status quo and wouldn't be in any hurry to change it.</div></div>See above. I don't think many are committed to the Status Quo I think the problem is the two (2) preceding items that you have iterated plus the powerlessness that an individual feel to alter the prevailing culture.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for those at home, remember that many of them view those who migrated as foreigners...they have even stated that some of us ran away and better not tell them anything about how to solve any problem, muchless &quot;how to run the country..&quot;** Therefore, on that note, it is going to take a lot of effort among both sides...the farrinas and the locals...to come together and see things as they are, minus the allegiance that cause us to be in this rut in the first place..becozz of of this, some give up an soh dem throw up dere hands and seh wha fi duh..</div></div>

I think we need not worry about this. There is no Jamaica today without the help of foreigners. Jamaican themselves are not uncritical of socio-political and socio-economic decisions that other countries make to the benefit or harm of their own folks, so it hardly likely that events in Jamaica can escape criticism. One our efforts is targeted and focused on the right problems, it should be of no worries whether or not it is going to be accept by jane of joe public....As Bob Marley once said:

Well, I and I and I don't come to fight flesh and blood,
but spiritual wickedness in high and low places
So while they fight you down,
stand firm and give Jah thanks and praises
'Cause I and I no expect to be justified
by the laws of men, by the laws of men.....

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">BMW</span>....So much things to say!

In any case part of the outreach would be to educate as well to critique and ultimately change.

[evanovitch]

Language and lyrics - the rampin' debate

Language and lyrics - the rampin' debate
Published: Tuesday | February 17, 2009


Marcia Forbes, Contributor


Finally, something tangible is being done to address lewd lyrics and visuals via our public media. Some three years ago, a series of approximately 20 articles highlighting some of my research findings on the influence of television on adolescents were carried in one of our newspapers. That body of work was conducted toward a PhD and specifically examined music videos and the sexual culture of Jamaican adolescents. The research findings made it obvious to me that intervention by the Broadcasting Commission was essential to restoring some level of accountability and responsibility by local media, DJs and music video producers. I said as much in the thesis chapter which focused on recommendations.

I am driven to add my voice to the raging controversy over Rampin' Shop and the decision by the Broadcasting Commission since I am one of the few Jamaicans who have generated primary empirical data regarding the influence of music on our youths.

In-depth interviews

Over the period 2004 to early 2006 my work involved in-depth interviews, focus group sessions and questionnaires with over 500 adolescents across six parishes in Jamaica. Over-whelmingly, adolescents, especially girls, watched music videos so as to learn the words of the songs. Older teens were also particularly drawn to music videos for this reason, with almost 90 per cent of 16 to 18-year-olds, indicating that they mainly watched videos to learn the lyrics. Clearly then our teenagers know the lyrics of Rampin'Shop!

They would be in tune with Kartel's sexual joy of being squeezed like handcuff and Spice's encouragement to him to &quot;ramp ruff 'till me belly cramp up.&quot;

These are the kinds of lyrics our youths have been consistently exposed to for several years now. Not just on radio and TV but in public spaces across the island. Some girls in St Thomas were delighted that their anatomies fulfilled Kartel's requirement (as per the lyrics of another of his songs) of a 'sensitive ukubit'. It validated them and made them feel worthwhile. But several other girls (and some boys as well) across the island were insulted or turned off by these lyrics.

Arguments that the lyrics in hip hop and soca are similar to those in dancehall and other songs by our local artistes miss an important point. The way in which Jamaicans relate to our indigenous artistes and music is different from how we relate to those from outside.

Indigenous music

Language plays a part in this. It is much easier for local youths to tap into the nuances of expressions used in dancehall and reggae music than those in soca and hip hop. This might help to explain why only about a half of them felt that hip hop videos talked about sex either often or very often, compared to almost three quarters of them who felt this way about dancehall videos. Soca didn't even appear on the radar screen.

While local youths may miss the words and slangs with sexual connotations in hip hop and soca songs, this is highly unlikely with our indigenous music. Although in Jamaica words and slangs take on new meaning with remarkable speed, our young people are always 'up to the time'. Take the number 'two' or the word 'fish' and the negative sexual connotations ascribed to them. Youths are very aware of this, to the point of being ridiculous about avoiding saying 'two'. Songs and music videos do not exist in a cultural vacuum and our local music and videos are closer to home to us as Jamaicans than are soca, hip hop and other foreign genres.

The findings of my research work point to links between music video consumption, particularly the dancehall genre, and risky sexual attitudes and behaviours among Jamaican adolescents, in particular young boys. Those who accuse the Commission of hypocrisy should check themselves and examine their motives for such accusations. Better late than never, is my view regarding the actions of the Commission.

Marcia Forbes is permanent secretary in the ministry of mining and telecommunications. Feedback may be sent to [email protected]

[evanovitch]

No 'rampin' around!

No 'rampin' around!
Published: Tuesday | February 17, 2009



TWO OF the entertainment sector's big names have described last Friday's meeting with Prime Minister Bruce Golding and industry insiders at Jamaica House, as positive.

Deejay Tony Rebel and record producer Donovan Germain, who attended the meeting, told Tidbits Tuesday that there were enough positives for the parties to build on.

&quot;He (Golding) told us that he did not want to stop the creativity of the country but it's his responsibility to uphold standards, and I agree with that,&quot; said Rebel.

Golding called the meeting last Tuesday, three days after the Broadcasting Commission declared a ban on songs or music videos with lewd or violent content.

Following the meeting, the prime minister said his administration is prepared to penalise channels (radio, television and cable stations) which violate the commission's regulations.

Standards

The Broadcasting Commission monitors standards for electronic media in Jamaica.

Its stance has not gone down well with dancehall's leading players who claim the genre is being singled out for censorship while other risqué events like carnival are ignored.

Germain, known for his work with Buju Banton and Beres Hammond, said the drive to sanitise the airwaves got the thumbs-up from a key member of the entertainment panel.

&quot;We all agreed that many of the songs need to be cleaned up, and I think it was good that Spice supported that. She recommended that adult content should be played as of 11:00 p.m.,&quot; Germain said.

Spice and fellow deejay Vybz Kartel have been strongly condemned in conservative quarters for their raunchy hit song Rampin' Shop which has been banned from radio. The popular 'daggerin' songs have also been ruled not fit for airplay.

Information Minister Olivia Grange and Education Minister Andrew Holness were part of the government party at the meeting. Singers Bob Andy and Junior Kelly, poet/commentator Mutabaruka, deejays Queen Ifrica and RDX, and artiste managers Robert Livingston and Copeland Forbes, also attended.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Fit for airplay </span>



Stir It Up (Bob Marley)

&quot;I'll push the wood, Then I blaze ya fire; Then I'll satisfy your heart's desire...&quot;

Feeling Horny (Fab Five)

The band enjoys itself on this one. Contains the clever line, &quot;I don't want to live in Norfolk&quot; (Virginia, that is).

Congo Man (Sparrow)

The legendary Calypsonian goes cannibal and plays double entendre (&quot;I never eat a white meat yet&quot to the hilt.

Yuh Nuh Ready Fi Dis Yet (Tanya Stephens)

The feisty singer questions her man's romantic (&quot;Have you ever wonder what mek a girl come&quot prowess.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: No 'rampin' around!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No 'rampin' around!
Published: Tuesday | February 17, 2009

TWO OF the entertainment sector's big names have described last Friday's meeting with Prime Minister Bruce Golding and industry insiders at Jamaica House, as positive.

Deejay Tony Rebel and record producer Donovan Germain, who attended the meeting, told Tidbits Tuesday that there were enough positives for the parties to build on.

&quot;He (Golding) told us that he did not want to stop the creativity of the country but it's his responsibility to uphold standards, and I agree with that,&quot; said Rebel.

Golding called the meeting last Tuesday, three days after the Broadcasting Commission declared a ban on songs or music videos with lewd or violent content.

Following the meeting, the prime minister said his administration is prepared to penalise channels (radio, television and cable stations) which violate the commission's regulations.</div></div>

Why did the Prime Minister need to hold a meeting?
Isn't there a Broadcasting Commission charged with taking actions where it sees fit?
This is kind of weak kneed, shilly shally response to further discredits the Bruce Gelding led Administration. Every decision taken by Bureaucracies established to make such decisions requires further ratification by Gelding. So now it moves from being a Government Policy, back by the laws of the country become a Gelding edict.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Standards
The Broadcasting Commission monitors standards for electronic media in Jamaica.</div></div>

LOL!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Its stance has not gone down well with dancehall's leading players who claim the genre is being singled out for censorship while other risqué events like carnival are ignored.</div></div>

Exactly now the GOJ of Jamaica has managed to empower another lobby against them. They have now managed to reinforce every stereotypes of the:
them against us
upper class against lower class
brown man vs. black skin poor people

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Fit for airplay </span>

Stir It Up (Bob Marley)

&quot;I'll push the wood, Then I blaze ya fire; Then I'll satisfy your heart's desire...&quot;

Feeling Horny (Fab Five)

The band enjoys itself on this one. Contains the clever line, &quot;I don't want to live in Norfolk&quot; (Virginia, that is).

Congo Man (Sparrow)

The legendary Calypsonian goes cannibal and plays double entendre (&quot;I never eat a white meat yet&quot to the hilt.

Yuh Nuh Ready Fi Dis Yet (Tanya Stephens)

The feisty singer questions her man's romantic (&quot;Have you ever wonder what mek a girl come&quot prowess.
</div></div>
Jamaican and Caribbean Music have always been liberally spiced with sex and violence. As for Bob Marley all or most of his music was not widely played on the radio until very late in his career. Johnny Nash's version of Stir it up was very popular in Jamaica long before Jamaicans even knew he had anything to do with it.

[britisha]

Re: No 'rampin' around!

<span style="font-weight: bold"> I mean we post things of a critical nature daily on various BBs, the only thing is we never direct that critique towards change.... Well at least I have not seen anything to suggest that. In the time I have been here and on other BBs I have only seen a total of two (2) Petitions.</span>

I must say you made a rather excellent commentary above, and from which I am excerpting the above.

I think I remember one (1) petition, and often wondered if it fell on deaf ears, or any ears at all for that matter. Since I joined this site I have read some constructive suggestions from posters who are no longer here, and from you.

In those days things were &quot;hot&quot; all around; at home and on BB's...some posters have disappeared, and my point is, getting a petition initiated and going the full nine yards might be even more difficult now,,,but one could try...

will add to this later. good day to you.

[evanovitch]

Heavy-handed ban will hurt adult entertainment,say cable

X hits the spot - Heavy-handed ban will hurt adult entertainment, say cable execs
Published: Wednesday | February 18, 2009


Sonia Mitchell, Gleaner Writer

Cable TV stakeholders, bristling from the recently imposed ban on airing sexually explicit and violent songs, <span style="font-weight: bold">have chastised Jamaica's electronic-media regulator for leashing the local adult entertainment industry.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">They argued that there is a market in Jamaica for X-rated material </span><span style="font-style: italic">and said the clampdown by the Broadcasting Commission could compromise the popularity of local, edgy stations <span style="font-weight: bold">and hurt the bottom line of cable operators</span>.</span>

Dancehall channels, which air mainly street dances and club parties, will be worst hit, as the commission's ban targets the popular daggerin' rage - an aggressive display of pelvic power - which is a staple of many sessions.

Impact on business

&quot;It will seriously impact business in a negative way, but the viewers need to take into consideration the perspectives of this business,&quot; said Veronica Ellis, assistant manager of Telstar Cable Ltd, one of the major providers in the Corporate Area.

&quot;The authorities need to start looking at who is producing them, before banning or clamping down on lewd material on dancehall channels,&quot; she added.

Johann Dawes, manager at Hype TV, said although some songs might be too risqué for free-to-air media, widening the net to include cable television was unfair.

Dawes said the new regulations would handicap Hype TV, which has an expansive archive of music videos, some of which would be outlawed. This, he said, would result in lots of material becoming dead weight.

Industry players have also suggested that the implementation of the daggerin' ban, effective immediately on its announcement on February 6, did not give them enough time to adjust strategy and re-edit content.

The cable TV community has music producers like Jay Will in its corner. He argued that implementing a wholesale ban on cable operators infringed on the rights of viewers who relished indigenous adult entertainment and created a double standard vis-à-vis foreign productions on other channels.

Interested listeners

&quot;There are people out there who are interested in the lewd dancehall songs and videos and don't mind at all seeing or listening to them.&quot;

&quot;What the commission should do, instead, is to rate the programmes like how they rate the international programmes, and make legislation that they be aired at a certain time at night from 11:30 p.m. to 4 a.m., when children are asleep,&quot; Jay Will told The Gleaner.

The move against daggerin' songs coincided with a raging debate over the broadcast of sexually explicit material in public media.

The firestorm of criticism was sparked after Sunday Gleaner columnist Esther Tyson called for media managers to be held accountable for the airing of &quot;filth&quot;. Tyson particularly hit out at Rampin' Shop, a song performed by dancehall artistes Vybz Kartel and Spice, which is deemed by many social commentators to reek of raunch.

Both deejays have, however, denounced the public outrage as hypocritical.

[email protected]

[evanovitch]

Stop the dagga whining about soca

Stop the dagga whining about soca


Whenever people offer conscious critically commentary on the lewd and licentious lyrical content in some dancehall music, a few frantic defenders of the crap always draw the old worn-out comparisons to soca.

My response, one long kiss-teeth and a longer yawn! Yeah man, I frankly think those comparisons are not only tired, but disingenuous.

<span style="font-weight: bold">'Dollar wine' to 'daggering' </span>

Really now people,how can one compare 'dollar wine' to 'daggering'? As a man, I can follow the singer's instruction and dollar wine all by myself, but daggering definitely demands that I find a female counterpart (and whether she consents or not) I proceed to violently 'dagger dat'.

How many soca songs you know where the lyrics directly and explicitly name and describe intimate female body parts in graphic, vulgar language without any attempt to cleverly disguise the denotation? How many soca lyrics request that if you are not fond of the singer you are to do unspeakable things to your own mother?

Look man, I'm no big fan of soca music. I have actually delivered a paper at an international academic conference in which I publicly challenge our official promotion of that commercialised imitation of Trinidadian culture that we call Jamaica Carnival; and I argue that 'passa-passa' is among the more authentic exemplars of the 'carnivalesque' Jamaican culture.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Regulation </span>

<span style="font-style: italic">But I think pickney fi stay a dem bed when big people a skin out at Passa-passa.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">That's what I call regulation</span>. I also totally support the view that, the same way how we wouldn't put some passa-passa 'bruck-out' on TV during prime time, we shouldn't put some of those Carnival scenes on either.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Rubbish defence </span>

But I really don't think we can justifiably defend slack dancehall lyrics by saying that soca songs do the same thing. That's rubbish!

And I don't think we should belabour the arguments against soca as a way of resisting attempts to regulate our airwaves. People, nothing is wrong with enforcing laws. And regulation works.

Whenever I'm in Jamaica and I have the time, I always visit that 'madhouse' on the Knutsford Boulevard hip Strip. I enjoying studying people and observing human social interaction - <span style="font-weight: bold">people display more truths about themselves when they are having fun </span>- and Asylum is a great place to indulge that interest. I personally prefer going there on a Friday night when the after-work professional crowd comprises the main attendees.

That's partly because the vibes is little milder than say a Tuesday night. Admittedly though, it's also because my little brother has been one of the hosts for the 'wacky Fridays' interactive sessions for eight years, and I enjoy the opportunity to watch him work.

Now, depending on the night or the DJ in charge, some very explicit content can hit the airwaves inside the club, and crazy daggering gwaan! However, people who can't handle that kind of content can still take their family for a meal at one of the many fast-food outlets in proximity to the club without being bombarded with what they view as inappropriate lyrics, because the venue is sound proof.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Heavy security </span>
And the heavy security at the door ensures that no underage people are allowed inside and all weapons remain outside. Plus, once you're inside you can't miss the big chest, muscle-bound bouncers patrolling the space ready to throw out any guy who lights a spliff or bruck a fight. That is an example of regulation working.

So I suggest that more people support the recent attempts by the Broadcast Commission to enforce regulations. Yeah, it kinda belated, but better late than never; 'cause the current chaos can't go on forever!


[email protected]

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Stop the dagga whining about soca

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I remember one (1) petition, and often wondered if it fell on deaf ears, or any ears at all for that matter. Since I joined this site I have read some constructive suggestions from posters who are no longer here, and from you.

In those days things were &quot;hot&quot; all around; at home and on BB's...some posters have disappeared, and my point is, getting a petition initiated and going the full nine yards might be even more difficult now,,,but one could try...

will add to this later. good day to you. </div></div>

There was one recently about a motor vehicle accident and one about crime last year but I don't think there will be many more myself. I think we will just continue to post and to comment.