Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This happens because the people don't demand legal firearms to be equitably acessable to the black as it is to all others. It will only get worse until they do.</div></div>

There may be a lot more to this story. Is it possible he had a gun legal or otherwise, but had no time to get it? I know of a few cases like this. And if he had a licensed firearm, he may have asked the police or media not to publicize that fact. The murderers may come back to get it. Or maybe he didn't have a gun, not because he couldn't get one, but because he didn't want one; he didn't see the need for one? He did express shock that crime had now reached his door steps; he mostly heard it on the news, happening to other people. Unless I'm reading too much into this story, he seemed like the kind of person who could get a licensed firearm if he applied for it.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: so Doc how much gun an bullets cost in Ja

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">di licensing fee...di legal one an di undaditable one?...an how many average citizens can juss manage these costs in dem salary? am really curious as to the costs fi di average citizen </div></div>
The license fee don't have to be that high. If the people who are masqurading as government, would realize that for every legal firearm holder ther is, the need for 5 police officers are mitigated.
You know hpw mane police officers have to be paid foe each of these unnecessary crimes?/
they would reduce the number of officers required and be able to increase their pay to reasonable levels where they won't risk losing it by being corrupted.

[diabolical_Tanya]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

nm

[STGC85]

Re: so Doc how much gun an bullets cost in Ja

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">di licensing fee...di legal one an di undaditable one?...an how many average citizens can juss manage these costs in dem salary? am really curious as to the costs fi di average citizen </div></div>
The license fee don't have to be that high. </div></div>

I whole-heartedly agree with you on that point. I think the fees could have been set lower. It's just an administrative fee for someone to sit at a terminal and run a 5 minute criminal history report on an applicant.

[RichD]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STGC85</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I saw a decrease in numerous crimes when both States adopted concealed carry for law abiding citizens. Home invasions, stick-ups, smash and grabs, etc etc went on the decline.



</div></div> what about murder? </div></div>Every crime otheer than those involve passion and suicidal decline. </div></div> what about gang related and reprisal?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

gangs ae for the poluce. Nobody was saying anything about replacing the police. all people want to do is to be able to defend themselves.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This happens because the people don't demand legal firearms to be equitably acessable to the black as it is to all others. It will only get worse until they do.</div></div>

There may be a lot more to this story. Is it possible he had a gun legal or otherwise, but had no time to get it? I know of a few cases like this. And if he had a licensed firearm, he may have asked the police or media not to publicize that fact. The murderers may come back to get it. Or maybe he didn't have a gun, not because he couldn't get one, but because he didn't want one; he didn't see the need for one? He did express shock that crime had now reached his door steps; he mostly heard it on the news, happening to other people. Unless I'm reading too much into this story, he seemed like the kind of person who could get a licensed firearm if he applied for it.

</div></div>A legal fire arm is most effective as a <span style="font-weight: bold">deterrent</span>If a criminal knpws that majoroty opf th epeople have legal guns, he will avoid breaking in their homes. That is why when they say to me &quot;why worry you have a legal weapon&quot;, I say I don't want to hve it and my neoghbors don't. becauae if I know they do, we will develope signals to use at noght,so that if any one is attacked the others will at keast make it know that they are there. the reason why a black operson's home is more likely to be invaded than othr races,in Jamaica. is because the criminals don't expect them to have legal fire arms.
They attack where there is likely to be no real resistance. rarelythey are surprizes, but the odds are in theor favour,that they won't be.
this is due to the behavior of the criminals (posing as givernment) that aid the murders by making it difficult for citizens to legally defend themselves.

[RichD]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gangs ae for the poluce. Nobody was saying anything about replacing the police. all people want to do is to be able to defend themselves. </div></div> i agree


but u agree that the rates of domestic murders ,gang related murders and reprisal murder would not be significantly affected by arming the public in Jamaica?

[STGC85]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what about gang related and reprisal? </div></div>

That's for the Police to take care of. Some of them just need to get out and so their damn job. Police presence is an deterrent also.

[Gen]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

BOAL unnu gwine kill mi


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">stale news...mi post dat from yessiday...carry awn...juss filling in fi dose who usually note di repeat postings </div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gangs ae for the poluce. Nobody was saying anything about replacing the police. all people want to do is to be able to defend themselves. </div></div> i agree


but u agree that the rates of domestic murders ,gang related murders and reprisal murder would not be significantly affected by arming the public in Jamaica? </div></div>tell me something. If all jamaican murders were domestic, and reprisal, yould you worry for youe safety visiting there?
As I said. It s all about self defence. leave the rest to the police. and if you are suggesting that it would increase in those areas. Once question... Is it phenomenaally high with the police and those that presently have legal arms??

[RichD]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">gangs ae for the poluce. Nobody was saying anything about replacing the police. all people want to do is to be able to defend themselves. </div></div> i agree


but u agree that the rates of domestic murders ,gang related murders and reprisal murder would not be significantly affected by arming the public in Jamaica? </div></div>tell me something. If all jamaican murders were domestic, and reprisal, yould you worry for youe safety visiting there?
</div></div>

I know not all murders fall under those categories ...but i'm just trying to get a clear picture of the expectation from a measure like this.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A legal fire arm is most effective as a <span style="font-weight: bold">deterrent</span>If a criminal knpws that majoroty opf th epeople have legal guns, he will avoid breaking in their homes. That is why when they say to me &quot;why worry you have a legal weapon&quot;, I say I don't want to hve it and my neoghbors don't. becauae if I know they do, we will develope signals to use at noght,so that if any one is attacked the others will at keast make it know that they are there. the reason why a black operson's home is more likely to be invaded than othr races,in Jamaica. is because the criminals don't expect them to have legal fire arms.
They attack where there is likely to be no real resistance. rarelythey are surprizes, but the odds are in theor favour,that they won't be.
this is due to the behavior of the criminals (posing as givernment) that aid the murders by making it difficult for citizens to legally defend themselves. </div></div>

A few weeks ago, I related incidents of how both my father and my cousin (JDF captain - he is now in private business) were attacked at home - in separate instances - by criminals who knew they had guns, and had come for those guns. In both instances, the criminals made miscalculations: my father shot the thug, but he wasn't killed. However, in the case of my cousin, the thug wasn't so lucky. The other day, a story was posted in the Jamaican News thread about a policeman whose gun was stolen by gunmen while he slept (the gun men were toiling upwards in the night?). My uncle, who is in the JCF, told me about numerous cases of people being targeted because they have firearms, and when their firearms are taken, they are not always killed, and often those stories are not publicized.

Yes, in many cases criminals attack where they think there will be least resistance, but that's not always the case. Clearly, going after a person's gun, especially people who are known to be proficient in the use of firearms, would seem to undermine the deterence argument.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A legal fire arm is most effective as a <span style="font-weight: bold">deterrent</span>If a criminal knpws that majoroty opf th epeople have legal guns, he will avoid breaking in their homes. That is why when they say to me &quot;why worry you have a legal weapon&quot;, I say I don't want to hve it and my neoghbors don't. becauae if I know they do, we will develope signals to use at noght,so that if any one is attacked the others will at keast make it know that they are there. the reason why a black operson's home is more likely to be invaded than othr races,in Jamaica. is because the criminals don't expect them to have legal fire arms.
They attack where there is likely to be no real resistance. rarelythey are surprizes, but the odds are in theor favour,that they won't be.
this is due to the behavior of the criminals (posing as givernment) that aid the murders by making it difficult for citizens to legally defend themselves. </div></div>

A few weeks ago, I related incidents of how both my father and my cousin (JDF captain - he is now in private business) were attacked at home - in separate instances - by criminals who knew they had guns, and had come for those guns. In both instances, the criminals made miscalculations: my father shot the thug, but he wasn't killed. However, in the case of my cousin, the thug wasn't so lucky. The other day, a story was posted in the Jamaican News thread about a policeman whose gun was stolen by gunmen while he slept (the gun men were toiling upwards in the night?). My uncle, who is in the JCF, told me about numerous cases of people being targeted because they have firearms, and when their firearms are taken, they are not always killed, and often those stories are not publicized.

Yes, in many cases criminals attack where they think there will be least resistance, but that's not always the case. Clearly, going after a person's gun, especially people who are known to be proficient in the use of firearms, would seem to undermine the deterence argument. </div></div>You miss my point. The secret is in the numbers. the criminals as I stated before will go after a person with a gun if they find him in a situation where they have the chance.
It is not about one man having a legal firearm that I am intrested in. We laready have lots of that. Your cousin you said was in th earmy. It is all about the many having it like every where where it works. the majority have to hve ir ro make it effective as a deterrent.
have you ever wondered that if these criminals 'will come for gins if they know you have it&quot; why don't they go to up park camp, Or the many police stations,or even in the neighborhoods where the majority is known to have legal guns, and break the doors down?

and what stop the criminals from doing so??

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Brutality! on the part of the authorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Dr.Dudd]gangs ae for the poluce. Nobody was saying anything about replacing the police. all people want to do is to be able to defend themselves. </div></div> i agree


but u agree that the rates of domestic murders ,gang related murders and reprisal murder would not be significantly affected by arming the public in Jamaica? </div></div> tell me something. If all jamaican murders were domestic, and reprisal, yould you worry for youe safety visiting there?
</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I know not all murders fall under those categories ...but i'm just trying to get a clear picture of the expectation from a measure like this. </div></div> It is the problem solving training in me tell me that we can't expect to solve everything with any one thing.
No reasonable and sane adult would expect that anyway.