bbc: "cleoptatra's mother was 'african'"

[jah_yout]

Re: bbc: "cleoptatra's mother was 'african'"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[<span style="font-weight: bold">Are there no African cultures which have the same symbolism as the Egyptians and their pyramids</span>? Anyhow one way of thinking will go looking for a pyramid elsewhere and if not found, no pyramids
</div></div>

first of all, egypt, in AFRICA, is an african culture....
secondly, <span style="font-weight: bold">nubia, an undisputed pure african/black civilization &amp; egypt's neighbor on the african continent, has more pyramids than egypt</span> &amp; also older ones as well...and the ancients said their civilization came from the south- nubia/ethiopia;
incidentally there are no pyramids of that type found in arabia or anywhere else in asia europe...only egypt &amp; nubia
i'm pretty sure you will find some next mumbo jumbo to post to dispute africa's history...hey you can always learn more european history if that fails

[jah_yout]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyways I am into culture representation and its management. You have to respect cultures. I can swear an Egyptian sees himself as just that, neither does he need anyone to tell him who he is. All people with an established history that they are proud of, will identify with it.
Now imagine me go a Ghana go tell dem, 'Big Up Ethiopia, Big Up Egypt, pyramid prove say them not dumb after all' What would I be doing?
</div></div>

fascinating...this is so strange to me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well Moreforus a say something must be convincing for them to be acknowledging that the Egyptians were black. It is not something it is someone. That is why action is needed an tap play parrot, thanks to a Senegalese researcher, Cheikh Anta Diop, these white researchers are putting his theories to the test. I do find bias in some of his writings which is to be expected based on his own origin.
</div></div>

far less bias than has been shown by white &amp; arab 'egyptologists'...and far more accurate as well

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back to the art thing. No one can deny that the Egyptian is/was of African and Asian influences. Funny I have not seen until now a direct concentration on these influences individually.
Had this been done, there would be no <span style="font-weight: bold">question whether these pyramid is an African construction.</span>The Egyptians are handled so remotely that the topic is whether they are black or not. <span style="font-weight: bold">Needless to say that Europeans identify with the works of Egypt as evidence of their own civilization</span>.</div></div>

this is false...europeans identify greece &amp; rome as the foundation of european civilizations...it is an established fact that the great greek figures of ancient times studied extensively in egypt, africa; as the racial bias of our times didn't exist yet, the ancient greek historian herodotus wrote plenty about egypt (you can read it)...whites only like to portray the ancient egyptians as white people when they make movies &amp; plays; history proves that europe was undeveloped and backward at the height of nile valley civilization...<span style="font-weight: bold">why would they leave europe with no pyramids to come to africa to build them</span>?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are there no African cultures which have the same symbolism as the Egyptians and their pyramids? Anyhow one way of thinking will go looking for a pyramid elsewhere and if not found, no pyramids
Are there no other African cultures with variant theories on the pyramid connection to the cosmos? In fact this would be deliberate because such is well known. The same people with both the geometry of pyramids have the same knowledge of the heavens. But then again some researchers claim they originate from Mesopotamia.
</div></div>

all the pyramids are in africa (egypt &amp; neighboring nubia (modern sudan))...why are they looking outside of africa for their origin when they don't exist outside of africa?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am really curious to find out how much one of these murals can tell, unless all we are looking for is their skin colour </div></div>

we can learn many things from the ancients...the only reason we looked at skin color is because some tried to whitewash them and deny africans of any positive accomplishments...surely you can overstand that logic unless you are just contrary for the sake of being contrary


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
According to Diop the ancient Egyptians were of two phenotypes. Owing to limitation of either artists I am seeing one phenotype per image. </div></div>

there are thousands of works of art from egypt &amp; nubia, so your statement is very strange...in fact it's downright bizarre

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[<span style="font-weight: bold">Are there no African cultures which have the same symbolism as the Egyptians and their pyramids</span>? Anyhow one way of thinking will go looking for a pyramid elsewhere and if not found, no pyramids
</div></div>
<span style="font-size: 23pt">first of all, egypt, in AFRICA, is an african culture....</span>
secondly, <span style="font-weight: bold">nubia, an undisputed pure african/black civilization &amp; egypt's neighbor on the african continent, has more pyramids than egypt</span> &amp; also older ones as well...and the ancients said their civilization came from the south- nubia/ethiopia;
incidentally there are no pyramids of that type found in arabia or anywhere else in asia europe...only egypt &amp; nubia
i'm pretty sure you will find some next mumbo jumbo to post to dispute africa's history...hey you can always learn more european history if that fails </div></div>

Egypt in Africa is an African Culture?
And you ever see me mention any name?


A Nubian back then is considered to be undisputably pure African, ha? If by Africa you mean of Africa then no one will dispute that. But if they were negroid then you will have to take that personal and put the blame on me

Look for yourself
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unknown source </div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.......
C. Loring Brace put ancient Nubians in the Caucasoid category with modern Egyptians (and Ethiopians too, I should add). I expect that the overall Eurasian contribution to Nubians was more like 30% , as modern Sudan shows a pretty sharp drop off in Eurasian mt DNA as you move South along the Nile.
.....
</div></div>

Egyptian history might be part of African history, but it is not African History.

Now you are proving some points, so if you claim that Nubian civilizations are undisputed pure african, why not promote the Nubia?

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyways I am into culture representation and its management. You have to respect cultures. I can swear an Egyptian sees himself as just that, neither does he need anyone to tell him who he is. All people with an established history that they are proud of, will identify with it.
Now imagine me go a Ghana go tell dem, 'Big Up Ethiopia, Big Up Egypt, pyramid prove say them not dumb after all' What would I be doing?
</div></div>

fascinating...this is so strange to me
</div></div>
Then my friend, this is serious

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Back to the art thing. No one can deny that the Egyptian is/was of African and Asian influences. Funny I have not seen until now a direct concentration on these influences individually.
Had this been done, there would be no <span style="font-weight: bold">question whether these pyramid is an African construction.</span>The Egyptians are handled so remotely that the topic is whether they are black or not. <span style="font-weight: bold">Needless to say that Europeans identify with the works of Egypt as evidence of their own civilization</span>.</div></div>

this is false...europeans identify greece &amp; rome as the foundation of european civilizations...it is an established fact that the great greek figures of ancient times studied extensively in egypt, africa; as the racial bias of our times didn't exist yet, the ancient greek historian herodotus wrote plenty about egypt (you can read it)...whites only like to portray the ancient egyptians as white people when they make movies &amp; plays; history proves that europe was undeveloped and backward at the height of nile valley civilization...<span style="font-weight: bold">why would they leave europe with no pyramids to come to africa to build them</span>?
</div></div>
Well it will be your opinion that Europeans do not identify with Egypt as the craddle of civilization with the Greeks and Romans.
So you interpret that Europeans identify with Egyptians to mean that their believe is, Europeans left Europe and build pyramids in Africa?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are there no African cultures which have the same symbolism as the Egyptians and their pyramids? Anyhow one way of thinking will go looking for a pyramid elsewhere and if not found, no pyramids
Are there no other African cultures with variant theories on the pyramid connection to the cosmos? In fact this would be deliberate because such is well known. The same people with both the geometry of pyramids have the same knowledge of the heavens. But then again some researchers claim they originate from Mesopotamia.
</div></div>

all the pyramids are in africa (egypt &amp; neighboring nubia (modern sudan))...why are they looking outside of africa for their origin when they don't exist outside of africa?
</div></div>
Who said anything about looking outside of Africa?
I repeat, 'one way of thinking will go looking for a pyramid elsewhere and if not found, no pyramids '

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am really curious to find out how much one of these murals can tell, unless all we are looking for is their skin colour </div></div>

we can learn many things from the ancients...the only reason we looked at skin color is because some tried to whitewash them and deny africans of any positive accomplishments...surely you can overstand that logic unless you are just contrary for the sake of being contrary
</div></div>
Race is not defined by skin colour. And Indians and Arabs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
According to Diop the ancient Egyptians were of two phenotypes. Owing to limitation of either artists I am seeing one phenotype per image. </div></div>

there are thousands of works of art from egypt &amp; nubia, so your statement is very strange...in fact it's downright bizarre </div></div>
No doubt you will find it bizarre because yu na know fart me a say

I must add, it is interesting that you mistake locating information for knowledge.

[jah_yout]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

A Nubian back then is considered to be undisputably pure African, ha? If by Africa you mean of Africa then no one will dispute that. But if they were negroid then you will have to take that personal and put the blame on me

Look for yourself
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: unknown source </div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.......
C. Loring Brace put ancient Nubians in the Caucasoid category with modern Egyptians (and Ethiopians too, I should add). I expect that the overall Eurasian contribution to Nubians was more like 30% , as modern Sudan shows a pretty sharp drop off in Eurasian mt DNA as you move South along the Nile.
.....
</div></div>

he Nubia?

</div></div>

you take the word of biased european/arab 'scholars' as law...but their classifications came out of a need to deny africans of anything good whatsoever; sudanese (nubians) are black african people now and they were back then...obviously you know far more about european history and ethnicity than you do about african;
SUDANESE/NUBIANS ARE NOT CAUCASIANS and repeating foolish people who prolong this absurd fallacy will not make it so either;
if sudanese people are 'caucasians' does that mean italians, spanish, portugese, &amp; albanians are 'negroes'?
because if there are black-skinned caucasians indegenous to africa, surely there must be white-skinned 'negroes' indegenous to europe;

your mind may not be able to grasp this, but the reason some so-called white scientists started classifying east africans as 'caucasian' is because once they were confronted with the evidence of great nubian &amp; egyptian civilizations...they had to somehow make these black-skinned people in africa to still somehow be white...
by the way here is a modern nubian...strange look for a 'caucasian', no?

sudanese model alek wek...in case you don't know ancient nubia/ethiopia is modern sudan


caucasian? let's use common sense

[jah_yout]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I must add, it is interesting that you mistake locating information for knowledge. </div></div>



if i didn't see it with my own eyes i wouldn't imagine characters like you exist...i guess in your mind the only true africans are from the west &amp; center &amp; possibly south of the continent...and who white scientists (the ones who once bought &amp; sold my people like cattle) classify as 'negro';
worship their word as gospel if you choose, but as for me-

'i have no white god, don't teach me anything wrong'

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I must add, it is interesting that you mistake locating information for knowledge. </div></div>



if i didn't see it with my own eyes i wouldn't imagine characters like you exist...i guess in your mind the only true africans are from the west &amp; center &amp; possibly south of the continent...and who white scientists (the ones who once bought &amp; sold my people like cattle) classify as 'negro';
worship their word as gospel if you choose, but as for me-

'i have no white god, don't teach me anything wrong'
</div></div>
With every step you are proving my point.
'I must add, it is interesting that you mistake locating information for knowledge.'

What do I believe?

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you take the word of biased european/arab 'scholars' as law..</div></div>
Am I?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but their classifications came out of a need to deny africans of anything good whatsoever; sudanese (nubians) are black african people now and they were back then...obviously you know far more about european history and ethnicity than you do about african;
</div></div>
Who can know their complexion back then? And why are we at defining nationality by skin colour? Even Diop's melanin test is disputable.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SUDANESE/NUBIANS ARE NOT CAUCASIANS and repeating foolish people who prolong this absurd fallacy will not make it so either;
</div></div>
Quite frankly, I couldnt care less what they are, my life does not depend on it. This reminds me of the first time I saw Sudanese on CNN. There were these Southern Sudanese telling the reporters about the Arabs that they were at war with, so there I was prepared to see Arabs. When they did show the Arabs looked no different to their president. For you the president is black. Then there was another documentary on slavery in Niger, these slaves were talking about the white one. The man looked no different than the same Sudanese president. Go tell them, not me

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
if sudanese people are 'caucasians' does that mean italians, spanish, portugese, &amp; albanians are 'negroes'? because if there are black-skinned caucasians indegenous to africa, surely there must be white-skinned 'negroes' indegenous to europe;
</div></div>

They are what they claim to be, no one drop on them. Nationals.
According to Diop, or well
Origin of the Ancient Egyptians

Check the nasal index range for the people you have mentioned then decide for yourself.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
your mind may not be able to grasp this, but the reason some so-called white scientists started classifying east africans as 'caucasian' is because once they were confronted with the evidence of great nubian &amp; egyptian civilizations...they had to somehow make these black-skinned people in africa to still somehow be white...
</div></div>
Don't you worry about my mind, but yours
These white scientist have a stake in Egypt just as you do

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
by the way here is a modern nubian...strange look for a 'caucasian', no? whatever

sudanese model alek wek...in case you don't know ancient nubia/ethiopia is modern sudan


</div></div>
Alek Wek is not a Nubian, only if you try to make a nationality of a place no longer in existence. She is a Dinka.

I am aware that quite a number of Rastafarians appear to be using an old map, there is also a map where Ghana reached as far as Mauritania and in fact included Nubia, a wonder why them naa use this one?

[jah_yout]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
by the way here is a modern nubian...strange look for a 'caucasian', no? whatever

sudanese model alek wek...in case you don't know ancient nubia/ethiopia is modern sudan


</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Alek Wek is not a Nubian, only if you try to make a nationality of a place no longer in existence. She is a Dinka. </span>
I am aware that quite a number of Rastafarians appear to be using an old map, there is also a map where Ghana reached as far as Mauritania and in fact included Nubia, a wonder why them naa use this one? </div></div>

you can't be serious...because sudan is no longer called nubia means she is not nubian???
sudan IS nubia and she is from sudan...no matter what name you give it it's the same place...
modern day sudan (a name given by arabs) is the same place as ancient nubia &amp; ethiopia;
i dare you to dispute that...that has nothing to do with rastafari...it is geographical fact...just as america had a different name before amerigo vespucci 'renamed' it

[Derek]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if a god was blue would they paint him blue?
You see what I mean?

Nice link:
Egyptian Art

</div></div>
I don't know what God looks like.

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if a god was blue would they paint him blue?
You see what I mean?

Nice link:
Egyptian Art

</div></div>
I don't know what God looks like. </div></div>
They painted their gods too

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
by the way here is a modern nubian...strange look for a 'caucasian', no? whatever

sudanese model alek wek...in case you don't know ancient nubia/ethiopia is modern sudan


</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Alek Wek is not a Nubian, only if you try to make a nationality of a place no longer in existence. She is a Dinka. </span>
I am aware that quite a number of Rastafarians appear to be using an old map, there is also a map where Ghana reached as far as Mauritania and in fact included Nubia, a wonder why them naa use this one? </div></div>

you can't be serious...because sudan is no longer called nubia means she is not nubian???
sudan IS nubia and she is from sudan...no matter what name you give it it's the same place...
modern day sudan (a name given by arabs) is the same place as ancient nubia &amp; ethiopia;
i dare you to dispute that...that has nothing to do with rastafari...it is geographical fact...just as america had a different name before amerigo vespucci 'renamed' it </div></div>
You have to put something disputable on the table. Then you are not a Jamaican but which ever name it had when the first humans discovered it, suffice its name was written down some where according to you. Alek Wek says that she is a Dinka and so she is. Those Sudanese that I have met play the game between being Nubian and Arab. So wait, how you a mek up people identify fe dem so?

[Derek]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if a god was blue would they paint him blue?
You see what I mean?

Nice link:
Egyptian Art

</div></div>
I don't know what God looks like. </div></div>
They painted their gods too </div></div>

From what they could SEE or from what they THOUGHT their Gods looked like?

[jah_yout]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to put something disputable on the table. <span style="font-weight: bold">Then you are not a Jamaican but which ever name it had when the first humans discovered it</span>, suffice its name was written down some where according to you. Alek Wek says that she is a Dinka and so she is. Those Sudanese that I have met play the game between being Nubian and Arab. So wait, how you a mek up people identify fe dem so? </div></div>

ok now you are being silly...i am from the island now called jamaica...even if it had a thousand different names before that, it doesn't change the fact that THAT IS WHERE I AM FROM...you can call it xamayca if you want- doesn't matter...i am from that island; same as alek wek is from sudan, formerly known as nubia/kush/ethiopia

[rufian]

Re: bbc: &quot;cleoptatra's mother was 'african'&quot;

If you are from the island now called Jamaica then you are now called a Jamaican. Just like Alek Wek is Sudanese and by ethnicity a Dinka and not a Nubian.