Is the West at war with Islam? Christianity vs Islam? - Clash of Civilizations?????

[franksterr]

Do you agree with President Obama's statement?
I disagree.
What say you?


In this regard there are three undeniable facts.....not all Westerners or Christians or Islamist/Muslim are being hereby referred to.

1. There is no denying that Islam is at war with itself.....Muslim against Muslim - Apparently Sunni against Shia .
2. The West (Christians) are playing a decisive role in those battles.....Western support for one side or the other.
3. At least Two Major Islamic factions profess and or affirm war with the West...ISIS(L) and Al Qaida both are Sunni.

I believe that Sunni Muslims (of course not every single one) are at war with the West and African States.
Having said I recognize that the perceived greatest threat to the West in the Middle East is a Majority Shia state.

[My Looh]

I do not know enough about Islam to answer your question and don't really care to waste my time studying it.

All I know is that much of the world's problems stem from both Islam and Christianity. Religion poisons the mind.

One would think that as science advances and we humans become more self-aware of the universe we live in that such hogwash teachings would no longer enslave our thinking.

We humans are an ignorant species and we do not deserve to be the stewards of this precious planet.

If there is a God his management skills are questionable at best.

[lonewolf]

Is the West at war with Islam?

No, Islam is at war with the west. Obama is to weak to admit as much.

MUSLIMS WERE THE FIRST AGRESSORS. They have been at war with the west and Christians even before the crusades. They just never had the meens to carry out or finish their mission.

The Muslim religion must keep their radical factions in check, if not, the religion faces the possibility of annihilation...hopefully, when a new president gets in office, he/she will bring the world together in one common cause to eliminate this scourge.

Sunni and Shia have been at odds with each other since they evolved. The Muslim religion split into two factions after the death of Muhammed. It's my understanding that only one person through out history was able to bring them together for one common cause to fight the Christian invaders, and the that was Suleiman the Magnificient.
And, Muslim, Christian and Jewish families lived together in peace throughout his empire. Probably a first and a last. Quite a feat if you take it in its context.

[blugiant]

Do you agree with President Obama's statement?
I disagree.
What say you?


In this regard there are three undeniable facts.....not all Westerners or Christians or Islamist/Muslim are being hereby referred to.

1. There is no denying that Islam is at war with itself.....Muslim against Muslim - Apparently Sunni against Shia .
2. The West (Christians) are playing a decisive role in those battles.....Western support for one side or the other.
3. At least Two Major Islamic factions profess and or affirm war with the West...ISIS(L) and Al Qaida both are Sunni.

I believe that Sunni Muslims (of course not every single one) are at war with the West and African States.
Having said I recognize that the perceived greatest threat to the West in the Middle East is a Majority Shia state.

reality is dat islam is arab nationalism and christianity is oyinbo nationalism. boat aff dem a use dem own nationalism agenda fe push de push arab ann oyinbo imperialism. da prablems is dat dem brainwash so manee blakks widd dem imperialist religion dat sum blakks affii tekk side.

lang lang thyme aggoo mii read dat clash aff civilieszations book.

y dem arabs tink dem entitled fe use afrikkan goddes fe push dem duttee agenda

[blugiant]

I do not know enough about Islam to answer your question and don't really care to waste my time studying it.

All I know is that much of the world's problems stem from both Islam and Christianity. Religion poisons the mind.

One would think that as science advances and we humans become more self-aware of the universe we live in that such hogwash teachings would no longer enslave our thinking.

We humans are an ignorant species and we do not deserve to be the stewards of this precious planet.

If there is a God his management skills are questionable at best.

religion miseducatesham is bout beliefs over knowledge dat y dem disregard dem own sacred book bout seek ann dem will find

mental slavery tings a gawn

[blugiant]

No, Islam is at war with the west. Obama is to weak to admit as much.

MUSLIMS WERE THE FIRST AGRESSORS. They have been at war with the west and Christians even before the crusades. They just never had the meens to carry out or finish their mission.

The Muslim religion must keep their radical factions in check, if not, the religion faces the possibility of annihilation...hopefully, when a new president gets in office, he/she will bring the world together in one common cause to eliminate this scourge.

Sunni and Shia have been at odds with each other since they evolved. The Muslim religion split into two factions after the death of Muhammed. It's my understanding that only one person through out history was able to bring them together for one common cause to fight the Christian invaders, and the that was Suleiman the Magnificient.
And, Muslim, Christian and Jewish families lived together in peace throughout his empire. Probably a first and a last. Quite a feat if you take it in its context.

mi neva figgit dat de reason y afrikka was enslaved and colonialies is cah arabs nationalism ann oyinbo nationalism united fe conquer afrikka fe cantrol afrikkan resources. dat y deer iss so manee blakks woo ar muslims ann christians. moas peeps nuh realized dat moas aff de muslims population ar brainwashed blakks woo pushing arab nationalism. wen anee religion tell yuh fe give up yuh kultural name ann tekk fe dem kultural name a brainwash sinnting

tink pon diss in isreal deer ar sum desendants aff ariginnal jews woo apposed isreal fe teefing dem land. plus sum aff da arginnal christians awlso appose isreal. so itt natt as simple as muslim, christians ann jews living in peace cah awl yuh ear iss bout jews and palistinians wen dat nuh begin fe deal widd da complexities

[RichD]

The Muslim religion must keep their radical factions in check, if not, the religion faces the possibility of annihilation...hopefully, when a new president gets in office, he/she will bring the world together in one common cause to eliminate this scourge.

so in your mind what does this final solution look like?

[blugiant]

The U.S. Empire and ISIS: A Tale of Two Death Cults


BAR executive editor Glen Ford

As U.S. imperialism loses its capacity to compete outside the military sphere, its foreign policy options shrink, accordingly. “Since the U.S. is superior to the rest of the world ONLY in military terms, Washington finds its ultimate advantage in turning the whole world into a battlefield.” Permanent War follows the same logic as a death cult. In fact, one created the other – literally.



The U.S. Empire and ISIS: A Tale of Two Death Cults
by BAR executive editor Glen Ford
“Obama is a flame-thrower, a fire-spitter, a pyromaniac on a mission to incinerate humanity’s capacity to resist – a vision shared by the jihadist death cults.”

President Obama is a master of military supply and demand. His operatives and allies supply jihadists with enough weapons, financing and, in the case of Libya, a Euro-American air force, to plunge vast tracts of Africa and Asia into bloody chaos, thus creating a demand for intervention by the planet’s only “indispensable” nation: the United States. It’s a diabolical formula for fomenting hell on earth, driven by a simple logic: Since the U.S. is superior to the rest of the world ONLY in military terms, Washington finds its ultimate advantage in turning the whole world into a battlefield. U.S. imperialism in terminal decay sees no salvation except through global war.

Of necessity, Obama is a flame-thrower, a fire-spitter, a pyromaniac on a mission to incinerate humanity’s capacity to resist – a vision shared by the jihadist death cults America has incubated for the past four decades.

ISIS, the Islamic State, begat by Al Qaida, which was begat by Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the U.S. in Afghanistan, now declares sovereignty over portions of Libya, having occupied much of Syria and Iraq and planted the black flag in southern Yemen and the suburbs of Paris, where its token presence is enough to drive millions of Europeans into a decrepit Crusader palsy. A subcontinent of thieves who have plundered the planet for half a millennia vow to send the dark Others back to “their own countries” – as if Europe had not stolen these African and Asian homelands long ago. In the end, however, what Europe will send is more weapons to the jihadists, mimicking Uncle Sam.
“Boko Haram has proven quite useful to the consolidation of U.S. military dominance in West Africa.”

This week, as happens every year, France, Britain, Italy and other piratical European states join the U.S. Africa Command’s military Flintlock exercise, designed to deepen African militaries’ dependence on western weaponry, training and finance. Chad, a client state of both Washington and Paris, is the nominal host of the exercise – as if any of the African participants could actually say No to an imperial proposal. The Flintlock maneuvers have converged with a regional military offensive against Boko Haram, the northern Nigerian jihadists that have gained so much ground since the U.S. and NATO turned Libya over to the tender mercies of Arab jihadists, in 2011. Libyan weapons flooded south across the Sahara desert, bringing instability to the vast Sahel region – which is like honey to the Pentagon bee. The U.S. military has announced that it will “share communications equipment and intelligence” with the five nations preparing to battle Boko Haram around oil-rich Lake Chad – imperial double-speak for putting the Americans in charge of the command-and-control mechanisms of the armies of Chad, Nigeria, Niger, Cameroon and Benin. Boko Haram has proven quite useful to the consolidation of U.S. military dominance in West Africa.

Meanwhile, the jihadist rampage has come full circle in Libya, where both ISIS and Al Qaida have multiple strongholds. Jihadist “ultras” are most deeply entrenched in Derna, a port city east of Benghazi that accounted for the most jihadists killed or captured in Iraq during the American occupation. When U.S. and NATO finally destroyed Muammar Gaddafi’s forces after seven months of bombing, hundreds of jihadists were sent to Syria, hoping to repeat the process against President Bashar al-Assad. Many have since returned to Libya, bringing the black flag of the Islamic State with them.
“Libyan weapons flooded south across the Sahara desert, bringing instability to the vast Sahel region – which is like honey to the Pentagon bee.”

Egyptian dictator Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, a supporter of one of three rump “governments” in Libya, bombed ISIS targets in Derna after the decapitation of 21 Egyptian Coptic Christian migrant workers. The atrocity, combined with a declaration of allegiance to ISIS by some Islamic rebels on Egypt’s Sinai peninsula, prompted el-Sisi to call for the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS to put Libya on its bombing list – an invitation from the world’s most populous Arab nation for the U.S. to extend the scope of its military operations to Egypt’s western border.

Jihad is truly a blessing for U.S. imperial objectives – but there is nothing coincidental about it. The U.S. installed jihadists in power in Libya, leading directly to the destabilization of vast lands to the South, which in turn facilitated the U.S. Africa Command’s mission to militarily dominate the continent. The U.S.-led jihadist proxy war against secular Syria was the incubator for ISIS, providing the U.S. with a new portal into Iraq, an excuse to operate openly in Syria, and now a possible chance to re-enter Libya cloaked as a savior from the jihadist hordes that the U.S. armed, financed and empowered only four years ago.
ISIS has been such a boon to U.S. war-fomenting strategy, Obama has been emboldened to demand that Congress give him three years of virtually unlimited, renewable powers to reboot the War on Terror. Like George Bush before him, Obama refuses to put geographic limits on the scope of his crusade against ISIS and its “associates.” The world is his live-fire chessboard, he can call the pieces by whatever name he wants, and make up the rules along the way. Every move is calculated to lead to greater militarization of relations among nations and peoples, because the military is America’s strongest suit – in fact, its only suit.

The truth is, the rulers of the United States are as much a death cult as the Islamic State, although U.S. imperialism is infinitely more dangerous. Let us do our best to send them both to their respective Paradises.

http://blackagendareport.com/node/14679

[lonewolf]

so in your mind what does this final solution look like?

What does the final solution of stopping evil look like? The elimination of that evil.

What does one do with a faction of people that justifies the beheading and the burning to death of those that disagree with their ideology?

RichD ?

[RichD]

What does the final solution of stopping evil look like? The elimination of that evil.

What does one do with a faction of people that justifies the beheading and the burning to death of those that disagree with their ideology?

RichD ?

You tell me what you are hoping to see done.

I agree with the school of thought that this is not a conflict you can kill your way out of.

The are grievance and those need to be heard .

[Tuff Gong]

No, Islam is at war with the west. Obama is to weak to admit as much. MUSLIMS WERE THE FIRST AGRESSORS. They have been at war with the west and Christians even before the crusades. They just never had the meens to carry out or finish their mission..

Where did you get you History Lessons, OK Legislature?What do you want a strong Barry to do?Send USA troops to Syria, Nigeria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen and everywhere else ISIS fighter bomb a market or behead a prisoner?

[My Looh]

If I have criticism toward President Obama it is the hand he had in overthrowing Muammar Gaddafi. Just like G.W. Bush before him who overthrew Saddam. He deposed a dictator only to create a vacuum that ISIS was poised to fill. I agree with Tuff Gong, what can the president do other than to continue with these ineffective air strikes and appearing to be doing at least something? America has played it's last great hand long ago. The political will is not there, the economic strength has been drained, America's moral authority is meaningless. Yes, this is President Obama's problem but the Republicans are just as much to blame.

Really, at this stage, what good is it going to do for the president to utter the word "Muslim' before the word "Extremist"? Other than to cause an even deeper divide between hot headed FOX news followers and the Muslims living in America (the overwhelmingly vast majority of which who are just trying to make a living and provide a better life for their kids).

[lonewolf]

Where did you get you History Lessons, OK Legislature?What do you want a strong Barry to do?Send USA troops to Syria, Nigeria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen and everywhere else ISIS fighter bomb a market or behead a prisoner?

I want barry to talk like a strong leader instead of being an apologist for radical islam.

I. The Islamic Crusades

Few Westerners know that thseveral centuries before the Europeans launched theirs as a defense against the Islamic expansion (cf. The Real History of the Crusades).e Muslims launched their own Crusades outside of Arabia two years after Muhammad’s death of a fever in AD 632. The first part of this article answers three questions about the early Muslim Crusades. In this article, the word Crusade (derived from the Latin word for "cross") means a holy war or jihad. It is used as a counterweight to the constant Muslim accusation that only the Europeans launched a crusade. Muslims seem to forget that they had their own, for

1. Who or what inspired the Islamic Crusades?

It may surprise the reader that Muhammad was the first to launch a Crusade.

In October to December 630, after the conquest of Mecca in January 630, Muhammad launches a Crusade to Tabuk, a city in the north of Saudi Arabia today, but in the seventh century it was under the control of northern tribes. "Crusade" is the right word, because early Muslim sources say the army had 30,000 men and 10,000 horsemen and because Muhammad did so under the banner of Islam. On his way north, Muhammad extracts (or extorts) "agreements"—without provocation—from smaller Christian Arab tribes to pay the jizyah tax, instead of being attacked and killed (a jizya tax is exacted from non-Muslims for the "privilege" of living under Islam; see Sura 9:29). They also had the option to convert, but most do not and agree, rather, to pay the tax. Once the Muslims reach Tabuk, however, the Byzantine army fails to materialize. Muhammad the prophet had believed a false rumor. So Muhammad and his large army return home.

So it is Muhammad himself who inspired the first generations of Muslims to carry out his Crusades.

2. Besides following Muhammad, why else did the Muslims launch their Crusades out of Arabia in the first place?

In a complicated Crusade that lasted several centuries before the European Crusades, it is difficult to come up with a grand single theory as to what launched these Crusades. Because of this difficulty, we let three scholars and two eyewitness participants analyze the motives of the early Islamic Crusades.

Muslim apologists like Sayyid Qutb assert that Islam’s mission is to correct the injustices of the world. What he has in mind is that if Islam does not control a society, then injustice dominates it, ipso facto. But if Islam dominates it, then justice rules it (In the Shade of the Qur’an, vol. 7, pp. 8-15). Islam is expansionist and must conquer the whole world to express Allah’s perfect will on this planet, so Qutb and other Muslims believe. But this is ambiguous at best. Over the centuries until now, Islam does not represent justice. People, especially women, are oppressed in Islamic lands—for reasons beyond bad rulers like Saddam Hussein. The essence of Islam, which Qutb correctly describes elsewhere (e.g. pp. 147-50), is to control the details of society, but sharia (Islamic law) sometimes becomes excessive. Excess is never just. Nonetheless, Qutb describes Islam as politically and militarily expansionist from the very beginning, and in this he is right.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/crusades.htm

Timeline of the Islamic Crusades
The Truth about Islamic Imperialism

James M. Arlandson

Historical facts say that Islam has been imperialistic—and would still like to be, if only for religious reasons. Muslim propagandists, for example, would like to impose Islamic law around the world.

Historical facts say that Islam, including Muhammad, launched their own Crusades against Christianity long before the European Crusades.

Today, Muslim polemicists and missionaries, who believe that Islam is the best religion in the world, claim that the West has stolen Islamic lands and that the West (alone) is imperialistic; they seem to imply that these lands have existed in the hands of Muslims since time immemorial, perhaps all the way back to Adam and Eve.

One hardline Muslim emailer to me said about the developed West and the undeveloped Islamic countries: "You stole our lands" and then he held his finger on the exclamation key to produce a long string of them. Thus, imperialism, a word that has reached metaphysical levels and that is supposed to stop all debates and answer all questions, explains why Islamic countries have not kept up with the West. The emailer did not look inwardly, as if his own culture and religion may play a role. Instead, it is always the West’s fault.

Westerners—even academics—accept the notion that the West alone was aggressive. It seems that Islam is always innocent and passive. It is difficult to uncover the source of this western self-loathing. It is, however, a pathology that seems to strike Westerners more than other people around the globe. This anti-West pathology shows up in Westerners’ hatred for the European Crusades in the Medieval Age.

It must be admitted that there is much to dislike about the European Crusades. If it is contrasted with the mission and ministry of Jesus and the first generations of Christians, then the Crusades do not look so good. But did the Europeans launch the first Crusade in a mindless and bloodthirsty and irrational way, or were there more pressing reasons? Were they the only ones to be militant? The purpose of this article is not to justify or defend European Crusades, but to explain them, in part—though scholarship can go a long way to defend and justify them.

In this article, the word "crusade" (derived from the Latin word for "cross") in an Islamic context means a holy war or jihad. It is used as a counterweight to the Muslim accusation that only the Europeans launched crusades. Muslims seem to forget that they had their own, for several centuries before the Europeans launched theirs as a defense against the Islamic expansion.

This partial timeline spans up to the first European response to Islamic imperialism, when Pope Urban II launches his own Crusade in 1095. The timeline mostly stays within the parameters of the Greater Middle East. The data in bold print are of special interest for revealing early Islamic atrocities, their belief in heroism in warfare, or politics today.

The Islamic Crusades were very successful. The Byzantines and Persian Empires had worn themselves out with fighting, so they created a power vacuum. Into this vacuum stormed Islam.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/crusades_timeline.htm

[Tuff Gong]

I want barry to talk like a strong leader instead of being an apologist for radical islam.

You want Sabre Rattling instead actual knives in the back of the Leadership of Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Qaeda, et al?
I am pretty sure given what we know of USA History. Any and every USA President will have fighters/observers where there is conflict. Most times is not a very good idea, but it mere politics to question USA Government resolve to kill folks that it deems dangerous to USA Citizens.

Barry-The-Nobel-Laureate, has proven that he his just as much a killer as any other USA President. He got Binny, when G.W. Bush said he had stopped looking for him. I don't doubt his resolve in this matter.

[lonewolf]

You want Sabre Rattling instead actual knives in the back of the Leadership of Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Qaeda, et al?

Nope. I'm for the most part an isolationist, but some folk need kill'n. ISIS like Bin laden need kill'n.

I'm curious on how Europe is going to handle their current problem. Wait'n for something big to happen in the US, Let's see how Obama handles a threat carried out, such as the threat of the Mall of America...let's see how something like that sits in Americas belly... dead bodies have a way of changing things.

Let's see how his apology for the radical muslim works out for him after we take a big hit...again.(9/11)