unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

[gourmet]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

OK, so they're the children of Jamaicans. Does that make it better? Does that mean that jamaican-on-jamaican gun violence in foreign has nothing to do with modern jamaican society and culture?

[sagal]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SueSumba</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is [censored] up. This is why Jamaicans have a bad name in Canada and elsewhere. When you come to this country you are supposed to leave the violence of your homeland behind, no matter where you are from, but some Jamaican immigrants bring this behaviour with them, and it is as unwelcome here as it is by decent Jamaicans in dysfunctional crime-ridden Jamaica. </div></div>

no. most of these young kids are produced right here, by their mothers who are 15 years older than them who think getting knocked up at 15, getting government housing, collecting dole and getting their hair/nails did is the way to go.

read the stories and you'd be surprised at the amount of 40 y/o grandmothers there are. </div></div>

Ask any of those same children and they will tell you that they are Jamaican despite being born in Canada to Jamaican parents.

Why are we as black people so tribal??? In the end they are black. I'm sure some of you on this board will feel better if they were Trinidadian or some other Caribbean national. However, the fact of the matter is majority of the crimes committed by blacks in Toronto are those of Jamaican descent. Statistics will tell you so? Again it doesn't matter.

[sagal]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, so they're the children of Jamaicans. Does that make it better? Does that mean that jamaican-on-jamaican gun violence in foreign has nothing to do with modern jamaican society and culture? </div></div>

Please tell them. This is ridiculous. Again that's why black people especially in the city of Toronto can't go anywhere. We are in total denial and only have ourselves to blame.

I bet you half of those same kids that she is talking about didn't bring in a Canadian flag when it was multicultural day at school. They brought in their Jamaican flag.

In Canada if you are of Jamaican ancestry/background. You are considered Jamaican first and then Canadian second

[mountaingal]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

&quot;Tribalism&quot; feeds into youth's identity in a society where they are seen as minority. It just is so, and is not restricted to Jamaicans or blacks. My daughter considers herself full Jamaican compared to her friends because both her parents were born in Jamaica. It is a source of pride for her. At the same time, she knows she is Canadian.

Jamaican culture exerts a powerful influence, and no-one is denying that. reggae/dancehall culture grips a lot of youth here in Canada, Jamaican and non-jamaican.

The gun culture is very strong - it's the way that a lot of boys use to prove their manhood. All kinds of reasons for that - not having strong positive influences in their lives, the readiness of the society to harrass and ascribe criminality to them, dysfunctional families, etc. Not defending gun culture, just trying to give some insights. Gun culture on its own is not the reason why Jamaican and Jamaican-heritage youth turn to gun violence, IMO.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Posters here easily lament the number of evil bad men killing in Jamaica, but they refuse to acknowledge that a similar percentage of jamaicans abroad are equally violent?
An article from the Gleaner certainly shows that these men are jamaican:
J'cans among gang members arrested by Toronto police
published: Sunday | May 8, 2005
Eddie J. Grant, Gleaner writer
TORONTO:
SEVERAL JAMAICANS are among a group of youth now safely behind bars following police action against two notorious street gangs, the Malvern Crew and Galloway Boys. The gangs had been terrorising the Scarborough area of Toronto for more than two years.
&quot;We have dismantled these gangs to the extent that I don't believe that they are capable of continuing their criminal activities or the violence they were inflicting upon the community,'' new Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair told a news conference.
RANDOM ACTS OF VIOLENCE
Blair said many neighbourhoods have been plagued by random acts of violence in which innocent men lost their lives because they just happened to be young black men living in areas controlled by the gangs.
Most of the nine men charged belong to the Galloway Boys gang. Tyshan Riley, 23, described as the gang's leader, is one of the worst single killers the city has ever seen, said Homicide Staff Inspector Jeff McGuire.
Riley faces a total of three first degree murder charges and six charges of attempted murder. Fellow gang member, Phillip Atkins, has been hit with two first degree murder charges and four of attempted murder.
Altogether, the nine alleged gang members face more than 108 charges ranging from robbery, witness intimidation, gangsterism, attempted murder, and first degree murder. The sweep against Malvern Crew and Galloway Boys was part of a joint operation launched in 2004 and titled 'Project Pathfinder'. It is made up of officers from the Toronto Police Service Homicide Squad, the Special Investigations Service, the Intelligence Bureau, and prosecutors from the Ministry of the Attorney-General.
INTIMIDATING THE COMMUNITY
The operation was set up after an innocent man was gunned down in what police believe was an attempt by gang members to intimidate the community.
'Project Pathfinder' took its name from the Nissan SUV used by one of the alleged gunmen. Jamaican-born David Mitchell, deputy superintendent at the Toronto East Detention Centre, touched on the Toronto gang situation during a recent address to the Morant Bay High School Reunion Dinner and Dance.
Mitchell, who is also a senior
official of the Association of Black Law Enforcers, linked the crime and gang violence to low education level. &quot;I am currently the officer in charge of the gang members in custody,'' said Mitchell. &quot;When I look at the background of these young men, none of them has completed high school, so there is a link between education and crime.''
</div></div>That tribe of violent Jamaicans seem to bypass the US eh??
They are very heavy in Toronto, Jamaiva, and UK. That is such a farce.
and the big problem is that the suposedly educated Jamaicans who never bother to aquire skills in sociology are so quick to use common sense and propogate the nonsenstory.

[mountaingal]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

Dudd, i can assure you that the rate at which black youth here in Toronto are gunning each other down is not the least bit a farce.

and by the way, it's not just jamaicans but now the ghanaians are getting in on it.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sagal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gourmet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, so they're the children of Jamaicans. Does that make it better? Does that mean that jamaican-on-jamaican gun violence in foreign has nothing to do with modern jamaican society and culture? </div></div>

Please tell them. This is ridiculous. Again that's why black people especially in the city of Toronto can't go anywhere. We are in total denial and only have ourselves to blame.

I bet you half of those same kids that she is talking about didn't bring in a Canadian flag when it was multicultural day at school. They brought in their Jamaican flag.

In Canada if you are of Jamaican ancestry/background. You are considered Jamaican first and then Canadian second </div></div> Well if they are not treated as canadians, why would they be comfortable bringing in Canadianflag?
Any flag,but theCanadian one.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dudd, i can assure you that the rate at which black youth here in Toronto are gunning each other down is not the least bit a farce.

and by the way, it's not just jamaicans but now the ghanaians are getting in on it.

</div></div> In Boston it is Black Americans against black Americans and Hispanics against hispanics,and asians against Asians,and every other ethnic group against their own, But no Jamaicans against Jamaicans. Jamaicans use to be blamed for every violent activity. They were supposedly against just about everyu body. That was 15 to 20 years ago. And before a few of us decided to supply the Jamaicans with Attyorney services. Then we found that ther were not really Jamaicans. Sio it did not cvost us anything. So we decided to take on the police and media about the Jamaicanization of the violence. It stopped being Jamaicans. and we cn now drive around with our flags in poeace and with much respect from our neighbors.against
Everybodi so Jamaican until Jamaicans get involved,then they staer having their real identities. Ofcourse they will fond a real Jamaican from the area that really believe what they hear on the media to interview. But that does not mean thestory is correct.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Tribalism&quot; feeds into youth's identity in a society where they are seen as minority. It just is so, and is not restricted to Jamaicans or blacks. My daughter considers herself full Jamaican compared to her friends because both her parents were born in Jamaica. It is a source of pride for her. At the same time, she knows she is Canadian.

Jamaican culture exerts a powerful influence, and no-one is denying that. reggae/dancehall culture grips a lot of youth here in Canada, Jamaican and non-jamaican.

The gun culture is very strong - it's the way that a lot of boys use to prove their manhood. All kinds of reasons for that - not having strong positive influences in their lives, the readiness of the society to harrass and ascribe criminality to them, dysfunctional families, etc. Not defending gun culture, just trying to give some insights. Gun culture on its own is not the reason why Jamaican and Jamaican-heritage youth turn to gun violence, IMO. </div></div> Jamaicanizing the violence is just a tool to attempt to blunt the effect of the strong cultural influence Jamaicans have on the community. They decide that iof they giovr it a violent identity,by reporting crimes a Jamaican on jamaican crimes,and pay disguided youth to shoot up the Jamaican festivities, they will destroy th eatrractioin of the youth to Jamaican culture it i9s not new. UIt is called social engineering. They decide the path of their cultural direction.
They try to decide it,and keep control of it.

[mountaingal]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

there's not usually any doubt here in Toronto, unfortunately, that Jamaicans play a recurring role in this. It almost doesn't matter, really, if the young shottas are not Jamaican - they <span style="font-style: italic">want</span> to be Jamaican.

[Amberal37]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In Boston it is Black Americans against black Americans and Hispanics against hispanics,and asians against Asians,and every other ethnic group against their own, But no Jamaicans against Jamaicans. Jamaicans use to be blamed for every violent activity. They were supposedly against just about everyu body. That was 15 to 20 years ago. And before a few of us decided to supply the Jamaicans with Attyorney services. Then we found that ther were not really Jamaicans. Sio it did not cvost us anything. So we decided to take on the police and media about the Jamaicanization of the violence. It stopped being Jamaicans. and we cn now drive around with our flags in poeace and with much respect from our neighbors.against
Everybodi so Jamaican until Jamaicans get involved,then they staer having their real identities. Ofcourse they will fond a real Jamaican from the area that really believe what they hear on the media to interview. But that does not mean thestory is correct. </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 11pt">Would be very interested in learning more about this Doc. It has been almost epidemic proportions in Britain for last 20 years. And same probs about other nationalities claiming to be J'cans. Yes we definitely have a strong cultural identity one worth preserving positively.</span>

[rex0323cn]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

I'm Rex from China. I speak Chinese. unfortunately, I can't understand this article

[Serenity82]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;Tribalism&quot; feeds into youth's identity in a society where they are seen as minority. It just is so, and is not restricted to Jamaicans or blacks. My daughter considers herself full Jamaican compared to her friends because both her parents were born in Jamaica. It is a source of pride for her. At the same time, she knows she is Canadian.

Jamaican culture exerts a powerful influence, and no-one is denying that. reggae/dancehall culture grips a lot of youth here in Canada, Jamaican and non-jamaican.

The gun culture is very strong - it's the way that a lot of boys use to prove their manhood. All kinds of reasons for that - not having strong positive influences in their lives, the readiness of the society to harrass and ascribe criminality to them, dysfunctional families, etc. Not defending gun culture, just trying to give some insights. Gun culture on its own is not the reason why Jamaican and Jamaican-heritage youth turn to gun violence, IMO. </div></div>

I will never understand why so many young guys feel they need a gun. Thank God I'm a woman. What a terrible way to live!

[mountaingal]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

<span style="font-style: italic">while the Malvern murder trial continues, thought i'd post this article from the same journalist, Christie Blatchford, about another young man who was charged and convicted in the shooting of a bystander in downtown Toronto in broad daylight. After this article was published, the young man was sentenced as an adult and his name revealed.

I'm posting it because of the Jamaican connection, following the direction of the thread. - MG</span>



Jorrell Simpson-Rowe, formerly J.S.R., sentenced as an adult.


Tuesday, April 07
3:55 AM


Calculating the odds on redemption
CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

TORONTO — It is no easy task facing Mr. Justice Ian Nordheimer of the Ontario Superior Court, who must decide whether JSR, the first person convicted in the notorious Boxing Day, 2005 slaying of Jane Creba, should be sentenced as the youth he barely was at the time of the shooting or as the adult he has barely become.

Then 17, now just 21, he was never alleged to have been the shooter who fired the fatal bullet. However, he was arrested shortly afterward with one of the guns that was used in the shootout on Yonge Street, and convicted of second-degree murder last December.

At issue now is not only how long he will serve behind bars, but also what would best serve him and thus the rest of us.

<span style="font-weight: bold">What is abundantly clear, as the sentencing hearing began, is that if JSR had had different parents - hell, if he'd had even barely functional parents - he might have been a very different young man.</span>

This was what the prosecution's examining psychiatrist, Lindley Bassarath, who heads the adolescent service of the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, concluded, though he put it in the lingo of his profession: &quot;Had he developed in another environment with more supportive pro-social influences and peers, he likely would have turned out differently.&quot;

JSR had what Dr. Bassarath called a &quot;very chaotic childhood,&quot; rotated through a succession of homes with his mother, father (though never the two together), grandmother, and three aunts in one of the city's hardest neighbourhoods. His mother drank a lot, and left him alone a lot; she has what the doctor called a well-controlled bipolar disorder. Indeed, mental illness runs like a freight train through the family, with other relatives suffering from depression and schizophrenia.

<span style="font-weight: bold">JSR remembers his mother telling him she &quot;never wanted him&quot; and &quot;should have had an abortion.&quot; His father is a drug dealer who was deported back to his native Jamaica when JSR was about nine years old, and who, about six months after Jane Creba was killed, was shot and injured there. His older full brother, at the time of Dr. Bassarath's interviews in February, was in custody in an area jail. One of JSR's favourite relatives is now in hospital in this country, having been shot in the head.</span>

JSR frets that this relative may have been shot in retaliation for his co-operation with Toronto police in the Creba shooting after his arrest.

He grew into a predictably troubled kid, full to bursting with rage. He tore through public schools - he attended a total of eight - and assembled a spectacular record of suspensions and one of what in the Toronto school board euphemistically is called a &quot;safe school transfer,&quot; which means he was moved from one high school to another for violent behaviour.

He was aggressive and angry, and the school board's attempts to get him help - at least twice, early on, he was recommended for counselling - were rebuffed by his mother.

<span style="font-weight: bold">He told Dr. Bassarath he had his first sexual intercourse at the age of nine or 10; he has two children, one of whom he fathered at 14, who are now seven and four; he has seen the youngest child only once, when the mother brought the child to court. Another girlfriend lost his baby to a miscarriage. He estimated he has had sexual relationships with more than 20 girls.</span>

He first smoked weed at nine, and was up to about 14 grams a day when arrested; he drank for the first time in Grade 8, but by age 16, was having multiple beers every day and hard stuff, usually good rye, every other day. He avoided work, and by Grade 9, had dropped out of school.

He has been in custody since his arrest, and for the first two years, racked up another lengthy list of discipline infractions. He was often profane, hostile and aggressive; he was also twice placed on suicide watch, and on one occasion, was found weeping, crying that &quot;I don't wanna do this no more. I want to leave this Earth,&quot; and later attempted to bite his wrists and then cut his arms on the edges of the meal-hatch door.

<span style="font-weight: bold">And yet, throughout, there were small signs of hope, hints that there might be a decent person there under all that anger, and more than a year ago, JSR began to change.</span>

His efforts show most positively in his school work; he finished up his Grade 9 credits, got his Grade 10, and now is scoring well and getting 80s in his Grade 11 credits. He found a social worker he can talk to, and who has helped him control his emotions and his rages. He is bright and capable, and has assembled a few allies: the social worker, one of his teachers in the institutional school and even Dr. Bassarath, who wrote, &quot;Others, including myself, note a likeable quality about him ... he clearly has the intelligence and ability to advance,&quot; as well as a sense of humour.

This road hasn't been without bumps, and because of his track record, JSR has been rated as a high to very high risk of re-offending and shown moderate psychopathic traits, notably a lack of empathy for his victim. When Dr. Bassarath pressed him to accept responsibility for his role in Jane's death, for instance, JSR replied, &quot;How do they know she wouldn't have been hit by a car or something?&quot;

The doctor said he found the remark &quot;concerning, and cavalier and callous&quot;, and when JSR's lawyer Mara Greene asked Dr. Bassarath whether a fatal car accident wasn't also tragic, he said simply, &quot;Yes, but that wasn't the tone in which he said it.&quot;

Similarly, when JSR told him he was staying in contact with the mother of his children, and &quot;f-uck-ing with her mind,&quot; only so &quot;I can grab my kids when I get out,&quot; Dr. Bassarath called it an illustration of JSR's capacity for manipulation.

At bottom, this young man in the black hoodie was almost destined from birth for a prisoner's box just like the one he sat in yesterday, and yet, there is something about him that suggests redemption is possible.

If he is sentenced as an adult, JSR would get the automatic life sentence that is mandatory for second-degree murder - seven years, for a youth - and would have about four years to go before being able to apply for parole. The judge could also remove the publication ban which protects his identity, and the conviction would follow him for the rest of his life.

If sentenced as a youth, he would receive a maximum sentence of four years in custody and could conceivably be released by year's end. His name would remain protected, and five years after the expiration of his sentence, the conviction would disappear.

[email protected]

[Suesumba]

Re: unveiling the face of black gang crime in TO

'I never watched a kid die before,' witness says

May 12, 2009 04:30 AM
Henry Stancu
Jesse McLean
STAFF REPORTERS

Residents of a west-end neighbourhood are trying to get over the shock of watching a baby-faced youth die before their eyes after he was gunned down yesterday evening.

&quot;I'll never forget that image,&quot; Melanie Cebry said, holding back tears. &quot;All I saw was a kid – a child – lying on the ground alone.

&quot;I want his mother to know he was not alone. A lot of people were there and we all tried to help him.&quot;

Adrian Johnston, 14, was shot in the chest, stomach and shoulder about 5 p.m. in a field behind homes on Eileen Ave., near Scarlett Rd. and St. Clair Ave. W.

&quot;We were all around him and that poor kid looked at me,&quot; said Richard Kolovski, who ran to Adrian's side. &quot;He's just a baby, without any hair on his chin.

&quot;I never watched a kid die before.&quot;

Residents heard three shots and saw a tall man in dark clothing and green ball cap run east through the field, toward Scarlett Rd.

Police were checking surveillance footage that may have captured a suspect a highrise complex on nearby Woolner Ave.

It was the fourth fatal shooting in Toronto Police's 12 Division in the last three weeks, in what residents are calling a burgeoning drug war.

Jarvis St. Remy, 18, was shot May 1 at a Dundas St. W. bus stop, blocks from yesterday's shooting.

&quot;When the young lad died at the bus stop on Dundas a week ago, we thought it was too close to home,&quot; said one parent who did not want to be identified.

&quot;Now this is in our backyard, and it's scary.&quot;

Cebry said she noticed the crest on Adrian's sweater and realized he was from nearby Runnymede Collegiate Institute.

&quot;I can't get over how young he was. I saw a tear come out of his left eye,&quot; Cebry said.

&quot;This just breaks my heart.&quot;

Local public school board trustee Irene Atkinson called Adrian's shooting – and last week's slaying of St. Remy, a student at nearby Western Technical Commercial School – &quot;very worrisome.&quot;

&quot;I think we ought to be paying attention to Mayor Miller's thrust to ban handguns in the city,&quot; she said.

There have been suggestions a shooting Sunday in Etobicoke, in which six people were hurt, might be linked to the earlier murders.




~~~ sigh ~~~