Michael Jackson died

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So does a pimp. </div></div><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL</span>!

[rudemonk]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=monk]Why it took MTV so long to play black music videos
Jet, Oct 9, 2006
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tropi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No need for a LONG article giving excuses and explanations. The reason is clear. It's the same reason it took so long to see Black characters in the Archie comics and Black models in &quot;Teen&quot; magazine. It's no great mystery. The producers and publishers are a bunch of flippin' racists. They didn't change until they HAD to change. I give Ed Sullivan and the producers of &quot;Star Trek&quot;, &quot;I Spy&quot;, &quot;the Wild, Wild West&quot;, and &quot;Mod Squad&quot; kudos for changing before they HAD to. Ditto for the publisher of Glamour magazine. </div></div>

Well there is no doubt some of the shows you list are quite visionary and definitely went against the grain. And I don't think you will get much argument from me that major players are racist and I'd also point out quite misogynistic in these networks.

But it's not a long article first of all. It's an excerpt. Neither is it 'excuses' or 'explanations.' It is one set of the facts of the matter. People make it sound like every act under the sun, black, white, or what have you- I mean where are the Asian acts- was at MTV's door with videos in hand and were being denied. Even Rick James said he felt like he was all alone in his fight and mentioned I believe that there was a dirth of ACTUAL music videos...and basically ignoring several acts that were in fact in rotation...and that he was being hung out to dry.

This is all recent history so there is no need to come up with fakery- besides the general racist and exclusionary bent of society in general- or make up things about MJ in order to fullfill people's crackpot posts and agendas for the bullsht they post in one thread that flies in the face of things they post in others.

I will point out that there were in fact several black artistes whose videos were in rotation from early on- a fact which anyone can check- so compounding the fact that some of the people like rick james were not producing videos to standards the network felt acceptable, or the network felt they were too out of their format- they played two or three Iron Maiden songs for god's sakes, you know, blondes, the newness of the medium wherein few artistes were even producing vids....all of these things conspired.

Videos I can remember being in rotation, and I had MTV pretty much when it started:

Eddie Grant
Herbie Hancock, who I think was nominated or even won a Best Music Video for the groundbreaking Rock It and which basically birthed turntablism
Donna Summer

Even I can remember Musical Youth &quot;Pass the Dutchie&quot;, because when I saw the vid I went and bought the 12&quot; record to play at parties from a music shop near my house, I didn't even have a decent turntable yet...

So from someone who would probably skewer MJ for his choice of wifing Lisa Marie, and if he were your son you would disown him even, I find it ironic you are so quick to leap up on this particular matter and not be all in a lather to crucify him...

Call me crazy.

[rudemonk]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=monk]Why it took MTV so long to play black music videos
Jet, Oct 9, 2006
</div></div>

No need for a LONG article giving excuses and explanations. The reason is clear. It's the same reason it took so long to see Black characters in the Archie comics and Black models in &quot;Teen&quot; magazine. It's no great mystery. The producers and publishers are a bunch of flippin' racists. They didn't change until they HAD to change. I give Ed Sullivan and the producers of &quot;Star Trek&quot;, &quot;I Spy&quot;, &quot;the Wild, Wild West&quot;, and &quot;Mod Squad&quot; kudos for changing before they HAD to. Ditto for the publisher of Glamour magazine. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, you sure of that Tropicana??
We are not suppose to know all that you know.
the almighty Yankees are here to tell us what has been happenning. Just sit back and reAad the facts as they are presented and be quiet.
We are just some dumb Jamaicanswho should know our limitations.
we just dont have the capacity to come to our own opinions. </div></div>

that's pretty hilarious, all things considered.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=monk]Why it took MTV so long to play black music videos
Jet, Oct 9, 2006
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tropi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No need for a LONG article giving excuses and explanations. The reason is clear. ....</div></div>

Well there is no doubt some of the shows you list are quite visionary and definitely went against the grain. And I don't think you will get much argument from me that major players are racist and I'd also point out quite misogynistic in these networks.</div></div>

It is funny how the article is there, the facts are set out and yet we are told to <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">disregard the article </span>just go ahead and implicate <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">xyz</span>?

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Crazy logic</span>!

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tropicana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=monk]Why it took MTV so long to play black music videos
Jet, Oct 9, 2006
</div></div>

No need for a LONG article giving excuses and explanations. The reason is clear. It's the same reason it took so long to see Black characters in the Archie comics and Black models in &quot;Teen&quot; magazine. It's no great mystery. The producers and publishers are a bunch of flippin' racists. They didn't change until they HAD to change. I give Ed Sullivan and the producers of &quot;Star Trek&quot;, &quot;I Spy&quot;, &quot;the Wild, Wild West&quot;, and &quot;Mod Squad&quot; kudos for changing before they HAD to. Ditto for the publisher of Glamour magazine. </div></div> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, you sure of that Tropicana??
We are not suppose to know all that you know.
the almighty Yankees are here to tell us what has been happenning. Just sit back and reAad the facts as they are presented and be quiet.
We are just some dumb Jamaicanswho should know our limitations.
we just dont have the capacity to come to our own opinions. </div></div>

that's pretty hilarious, all things considered. </div></div>Guess what??? You are wastuing yiy effort.
you won't change anybody's views.
We are use to this by now.

[rudemonk]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

I mean wasn't this guy just saying the same industry heads who supposedly went out on a limb and threatened the removal of all their white acts were also at the same time responsible for orchestrating his suppression...

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mean wasn't this guy just saying the same industry heads who supposedly went out on a limb and threatened the removal of all their white acts were also at the same time responsible for orchestrating his suppression... </div></div> No monk, we are no akk idiots here don;tm net thecolour fool you i know what you jave been taught.
But That is not waht Isaid. Why don't you bring up the post wher I said the Head of the industry did that??
They don't even wait intil the evodence is earce to lie.
My god how desperate can one be?
I suppose you are working for your pay.

[rudemonk]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>Guess what??? You are wastuing yiy effort.
you won't change anybody's views.
We are use to this by now. [/quote]

Guess what? It's called conversation. You post something, I get to post something too. Other people can join in as well. Suddenly, you have a whole thread, just like magic. Sometimes these threads even express (gasp) opposing views. Some of them, apparently, can even be half baked views, lmao.

Anyway, I'm just posting here for the students who read these forums. You know.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>Guess what??? You are wastuing yiy effort.
you won't change anybody's views.
We are use to this by now. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Guess what? It's called conversation. You post something, I get to post something too. Other people can join in as well. Suddenly, you have a whole thread, just like magic. Sometimes these threads even express (gasp) opposing views. Some of them, apparently, can even be half baked views, lmao.

Anyway, I'm just posting here for the students who read these forums. You know. </div></div> No it is all about using whatever means necessary to get a projected view over on people. well lit can happen under most conditions, but then there is going to be those few times where it just don't work. This just seem to be one of those. You are probably not use to it, but tough luck.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mean wasn't this guy just saying the same industry heads who supposedly went out on a limb and threatened the removal of all their white acts were also at the same time responsible for orchestrating his suppression... </div></div>

]...but we not to consider any other argument than the conclusions that the mad caps have come to and wish to foist upon us.
Kinda knew it would come to this. The point it let's try to make Michael a Saint; let's say the whole world was against him irrepect of the facts.

<a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_14_110/ai_n16807343/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Why it took MTV so long to play black music videos</span>
Jet, Oct 9, 2006</a>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Modeled after Top 40 radio, MTV's video playlist had a meager few Black videos in 1981. Most of its early videos came from England where music videos were already common.

Eddy Grant, Musical Youth and Joan Armatrading were some of the Black artists from that country whose videos were shown during MTV's inception. Tina Turner, Jon Butcher Axis, The Bus Boys and Donna Summer were some of the other Black artists whose videos were shown because their music fit the format.

James, whose music helped define &quot;punk funk,&quot; fought for two years to have more Black videos shown on MTV. ABC's &quot;Nightline&quot; featured his much publicized crusade. But the outspoken performer, who died in 2004, became agitated because it seemed as though he was on the battlefield's front line alone.

&quot;I'm a crusader without an army,&quot; James said. &quot;All these Black artists claim they're behind me, but when it's time to make a public statement, you can't find them ... They're going to let me do all the rapping and get into trouble and then they'll reap the benefits.&quot;</div></div>



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The video for Super Freak, recalls Garland, was not aired because, &quot;Its contents was a little over the top for us, and our standards and practices wouldn't go for it because of the content of the visuals. It had nothing to do with the song. It had nothing to do with him. It was a little over the top for us back then. Then he went on that whole tirade.&quot;

Buzz Brindle, MTV's early director of music programming who reported to Garland, defended the network's early format then and does so now.

&quot;The point I always made was that MTV was originally designed to be a rock music channel,&quot; he says. &quot;It was difficult for MTV to find African-American artists whose music fit the channel's format that leaned toward rock at the outset.&quot;</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When Michael Jackson's record label submitted his video for Billie Jean in 1983, it changed how the network excluded videos. Garland was the man who made the decision to air Billie Jean, though it didn't fit the formula.

&quot;There was never any hesitation. No fret,&quot; says Garland, dispelling the &quot;myth&quot; that Jackson's record label threatened to pull all of its videos if Billie Jean was not shown. &quot;I called Bob (Pittman, MTV co-founder) to tell him, 'I just saw the greatest video I've ever seen in my life. It is off the dial it's so good.' We added it that day. How (the myth) turned into a story literally blew our minds.&quot;</div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I mean wasn't this guy just saying the same industry heads who supposedly went out on a limb and threatened the removal of all their white acts were also at the same time responsible for orchestrating his suppression... </div></div>

]...but we not to consider any other argument than the conclusions that the mad caps have come to and wish to foist upon us.
Kinda knew it would come to this. The point it let's try to make Michael a Saint; let's say the whole world was against him irrepect of the facts.

<a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_14_110/ai_n16807343/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Why it took MTV so long to play black music videos</span>
Jet, Oct 9, 2006</a>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Modeled after Top 40 radio, MTV's video playlist had a meager few Black videos in 1981. Most of its early videos came from England where music videos were already common.

Eddy Grant, Musical Youth and Joan Armatrading were some of the Black artists from that country whose videos were shown during MTV's inception. Tina Turner, Jon Butcher Axis, The Bus Boys and Donna Summer were some of the other Black artists whose videos were shown because their music fit the format.

James, whose music helped define &quot;punk funk,&quot; fought for two years to have more Black videos shown on MTV. ABC's &quot;Nightline&quot; featured his much publicized crusade. But the outspoken performer, who died in 2004, became agitated because it seemed as though he was on the battlefield's front line alone.

&quot;I'm a crusader without an army,&quot; James said. &quot;All these Black artists claim they're behind me, but when it's time to make a public statement, you can't find them ... They're going to let me do all the rapping and get into trouble and then they'll reap the benefits.&quot;</div></div>



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The video for Super Freak, recalls Garland, was not aired because, &quot;Its contents was a little over the top for us, and our standards and practices wouldn't go for it because of the content of the visuals. It had nothing to do with the song. It had nothing to do with him. It was a little over the top for us back then. Then he went on that whole tirade.&quot;

Buzz Brindle, MTV's early director of music programming who reported to Garland, defended the network's early format then and does so now.

&quot;The point I always made was that MTV was originally designed to be a rock music channel,&quot; he says. &quot;It was difficult for MTV to find African-American artists whose music fit the channel's format that leaned toward rock at the outset.&quot;</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When Michael Jackson's record label submitted his video for Billie Jean in 1983, it changed how the network excluded videos. Garland was the man who made the decision to air Billie Jean, though it didn't fit the formula.

&quot;There was never any hesitation. No fret,&quot; says Garland, dispelling the &quot;myth&quot; that Jackson's record label threatened to pull all of its videos if Billie Jean was not shown. &quot;I called Bob (Pittman, MTV co-founder) to tell him, 'I just saw the greatest video I've ever seen in my life. It is off the dial it's so good.' We added it that day. How (the myth) turned into a story literally blew our minds.&quot;</div></div>
</div></div> CBS has the recent iunbterview withthe record presedident of the record company I thint ot was CBS too,but I don't remember the name off hand. Even the british rock star husband of IMAn, coborrated it.company

[rudemonk]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

Doc, do you play chess? I'm going to go out on a limb, since that seems to be the tone you are setting again, and say no.

This move of yours, it doesn't work. It's like, the umpteenth time you've tried to pull it, over something trivial like the fact that <span style="font-style: italic">you</span> are probably <span style="font-style: italic">wrong</span> about something. That is possible right?

On these forums, people need to realize something. You can only insult someone if they let you.

Anyway, the problem is you have said one man said one thing, and we have another saying something else. It's not exactly a secret that you often go off half cocked, and really, who cares. But we're having a conversation despite your insults, so where is the PROOF of what you say. You took the ball and really ran with it on this one.

Your other silly accusations don't even deserve reply or notice beyond what I just gave them.

I am saying the proof is in the pudding. So if the man saying he had to threaten to pull ALL his acts off MTV tell it so, and in fact MTV was not playing any black artistes at the time, you would have a serious leg to stand on. It would be a clear picture. No black acts on MTV.

But the fact is the person in charge of MTV said differently, basically saying he loved the Beat It video from jump, and to further support his position that he did not need coercion he can point to the fact that several OTHER black artistes were in fact already being played on MTV with no problems...and were even being AWARDED the station's highest honors too! So...where is your leg to stand on? What is the answer as to why those videos were on air, if it took a MAJOR threat to get MJ on?

This is a chicken little argument if I ever saw one being posted.

Let's see the fax or the letter he sent making such a threat.

Let's see the internal MTV memo wherein it is said, don't play MJ's video because he is black. Some supporting testimony.

Now maybe the guy who was the head of MTV is a racist prck bastrd. I don't know him, neither do you. Some people whom I <span style="font-style: italic">do</span> know and trust have said the network needed some work on the front of racism and sexism, and what institution doesn't? These people all also give MTV chops for doing certain things...

Maybe the head of Jackson's label was racist too!!!! I'm sure you would have us believe that, eventually, if it suited some other cockamamie idea you concoct. Or was he a beacon for human rights.

And racists can certainly do things that are at odds with their racism...but still...

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

Billie Jean (1983)

This is the video that changed history - the first video by a black artist to be aired on MTV. <span style="font-size: 20pt"> When the network refused to play the video the president of Jackson's record label threatened to go public with their stance on black musicians. MTV caved and Billie Jean was added to heavy rotation.</span>

Thriller (1983)

The 13-minute music video, directed by John Landis, was the most expensive music video of its time, costing roughly $500,000 to produce. In 2006, Guiness World Records listed Thriller as the most &quot;successful music video&quot;, selling over 9 million units. The video features choreographed zombies performing with Jackson, who transforms into both a zombie and a werecat. In 1984, Jackson won three MTV Video Music Awards for Best Overall Performance in a Video, Best Choreography, and Viewer's Choice. The following year the song won Jackson a Grammy for Best Video, Long Form.



Beat It (1983)

Based on the Broadway musical West Side Story, the video features mass choreography, a Jackson trademark. To add authenticity to the video, 80 real-life gang members were featured along with 18 professional dancers. The video earned Jackson a number of awards from the American Music Awards, Billboard Music Awards, Black Gold Awards, and more.

Bad (1987)

The first video in which Jackson's choreography -- the occasional grab or touch of his chest, torso and crotch -- garned mixed reception from both fans and critics. The 18-minute short film / music video cost an impressive $2.3 million to produce and was directed by Martin Scorsese. The video features a cameo from actor Wesley Snipes.

Smooth Criminal (1988)

There are four versions of the video for Smooth Criminal, directed by special effects coordinator, Colin Chilvers. The Original Moonwalker Version, the Moonwalker Version, the Sped Up/Moonwalker Credits Version, and the Album Version. In 1993, Jackson patented the anti-gravity lean that is seen in the music video.

Black or White (1991)

Featured Macaulay Culkin, Tess Harper, and George Went and guest appearences from supermodel Tyra Banks and actress Peggy Lipton. Second video directed by John Landis, who also directed Thriller. The video helped to usher in morphing technology in music videos. Controversy followed the music video and MTV, along with other music video networks, removed the last four minutes of the video from most broadcasts.

Jam (1992)

The music video for Jam features two MJs (Jackson and Michael Jordan). In the video Jackson teaches the basketball ledgend how to dance. In return, Jordan teaches Jackson how to play basketball. The extended version of the video includes footage of Jackson teaching Jordan how to moonwalk. Rappers Kris Kross and Heavy D make cameo appearances.

Remember the Time (1992)

Remember the Time was one of Jackson's longest videos, clocking in at over 9 minutes. The video, set in ancient Egypt, featured groundbreaking visual effects and appearences by Eddie Murphy, Iman, and Magic Johnson. (Director: John Singleton)

Scream (1995)

Jackson collaborated with sister Janet Jackson in this video - the most expensive video ever made. The critically acclaimed video was filmed primarily in black and white and cost an impressive $7 million. The song and accompanying video are a response to the media backlash Jackson received following his sexual abuse accusations and marriage to Lisa Marie Presley, daughter of Elvis Presley.




Related Article: Michael Jackson Dead at 50

More coverage on the death of Michael Jackson

More coverage on the death of Farrah Fawcett

[rudemonk]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Billie Jean (1983)

This is the video that changed history - the first video by a black artist to be aired on MTV.
</div></div>

BUT ANY MOUTHBREATHER CAN SEE IT WAS NOT THE FIRST VIDEO BY A BLACK ARTISTE TO BE AIRED ON MTV. WE KNOW THAT THIS STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE!!!! PROVABLY!

It was not the first. I already listed all the black artistes who were having their videos played. Do you dispute that those acts had their videos on MTV?

How do you explain that! Where is the proof MTV was threatened? That they 'refused' the video?

[julie*mango]

Re: Michael Jackson DEAD

ok yall needd to change this title now...start a new thread or something...everytime I see Michael Jackson DEAD am like &quot;Damn for real!!!!&quot; den mi get ahold a miself an remine di I dat it dun gone areddy....