A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whats wrong with being knighted???

find something else to be preturbed about.. this false pride and foolish &quot;rebellion&quot; against the queen as head of state has been done a million times over. Get over it. </div></div>

the knight thing i don't care about...but are you in favor of the british queen being jamaica's head of state indefinitely?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Anyway not to worry all this Pomp and Circumstances will soon come to a crashing end:

<a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-2627-DC-International-Travel-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Queen-of-the-Great-Britain--on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Queen of the Great Britain
– on the verge of bankruptcy</span></a>
<span style="font-style: italic">June 30, 1:35 PM</span>

I say, go to United Kingdom now, or it might be too late. Don't miss to see the beautiful Royal residences of the UK.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyway not to worry all this Pomp and Circumstances will soon come to a crashing end:

<a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-2627-DC-International-Travel-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Queen-of-the-Great-Britain--on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Queen of the Great Britain
– on the verge of bankruptcy</span></a>
<span style="font-style: italic">June 30, 1:35 PM</span>

I say, go to United Kingdom now, or it might be too late. Don't miss to see the beautiful Royal residences of the UK.
</div></div>

... or the changing of the guard - for those interested.

[Marilyn]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyway not to worry all this Pomp and Circumstances will soon come to a crashing end:

<a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-2627-DC-International-Travel-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Queen-of-the-Great-Britain--on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Queen of the Great Britain
– on the verge of bankruptcy</span></a>
<span style="font-style: italic">June 30, 1:35 PM</span>

I say, go to United Kingdom now, or it might be too late. Don't miss to see the beautiful Royal residences of the UK.
</div></div>

They'll just bank roll them again.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marilyn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyway not to worry all this Pomp and Circumstances will soon come to a crashing end:

<a href="http://www.examiner.com/x-2627-DC-International-Travel-Examiner~y2009m6d30-Queen-of-the-Great-Britain--on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Queen of the Great Britain
– on the verge of bankruptcy</span></a>
<span style="font-style: italic">June 30, 1:35 PM</span>

I say, go to United Kingdom now, or it might be too late. Don't miss to see the beautiful Royal residences of the UK.
</div></div>

They'll just bank roll them again. </div></div>

Nope The Government wants her to reduce costs and she said no. This only the opening salvo in a war of attrition, I think the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">White Queen </span>will lose and the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Mad Hatter</span> wins!

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whats wrong with being knighted???

find something else to be preturbed about.. this false pride and foolish &quot;rebellion&quot; against the queen as head of state has been done a million times over. Get over it. </div></div>

the knight thing i don't care about...but are you in favor of the british queen being jamaica's head of state indefinitely? </div></div>

A Monarch thousands of miles away as Jamaica's head of state, coupled with the fact that the Privy Council of the House of Lords (UK) is Jamaica's final appellate court, seem out of step with Jamaica's strides towards full sovereignty, so I'm in favour of Jamaica becoming a republic; I've always said that, and it's not because she is white and British.

The thing is: republicanism doesn't seem to be the priority of most Jamaicans, or there is no mass support from the populace, and understandably so; they have more pressing problems. If it were so, Jamaica would have become a republic a long time ago. I don't even see the political will to do so. And during the PNP administration when they were in power for 18 years, even when they had dominance in Parliament, they could have pushed for changes; even one or two JLP senators would have crossed the floor to support to vote with the PNP. What did they do, instead? They changed the oath the PM would take when being sworn into office, changing it from &quot;I swear allegiance to the King/Queen and his/her heirs and successors&quot; to one that said the PM would swear allegiance to the people (or words to that effect).

No one pretends that Jamaica's problems will disappear simply because it exchanges the British monarch for a Jamaican President as Head of State. And I can think of a few Barristers who wouldn't want to part with their QCs.

Republicanism wouldn't affect whether some Jamaicans would so chose to accept knighthood; the Head of State wouldn't automatically be considered for knighthood. And it wouldn't affect Jamaica's status within the Commonwealth.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A Monarch thousands of miles away as Jamaica's head of state, coupled with the fact that the Privy Council of the House of Lords (UK) is Jamaica's final appellate court, seem out of step with Jamaica's strides towards full sovereignty, so I'm in favour of Jamaica becoming a republic; I've always said that, and it's not because she is white and British. </div></div>

I think we should hang on for dear life on to the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Privy Council</span>!

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we should hang on for dear life on to the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Privy Council</span>! </div></div>



Here's my take on that: As a staunch opponent of the death penalty, and knowing that the UK Privy Council is not in favour of it, I would have to admit that I don't mind that capital punishment cases, in particular, end up at the Privy Council. I see that the last execution in Jamaica took place roughly 22 years ago because the then JLP government had placed a moratorium on the death penalty. Of course, the Privy Council doesn't decide only murder cases, but it's a trade-off I'm comfortable with - at the moment. Also, its unbiased detachment from Jamaica's political wranglings is a good thing.

The two major parties NOW favour the death penalty (some prominent JLP parliamentarians had opposed it). During the Patterson administration, knowing that the Privy Council is likely to rule against the execution, and because hanging would give the <span style="font-weight: bold">impression</span> that the government is doing something about crime (it actually wasn't), and because both Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago had signaled that they favoured the death penalty, Patterson pushed for the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) to replace the Privy Council - and for other reasons, to be fair, that had to do with the development of a Caribbean jurisprudence.

If the death penalty is abolished by an Act of Parliament, then I wouldn't mind Jamaica replacing the Privy Council with the CCJ. Ideally, though, I would prefer a restructuring of the judiciary where the Jamaican Supreme Court is really Supreme, and is Jamaica's final appellate court. But I don't see these two things happening anytime soon.

[neutral]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

is it on the record why benjamin declined? </div></div>







Rasta poet publicly rejects his OBE



* Merope Mills
* The Guardian, Thursday 27 November 2003 10.55 GMT
* Article history

The leading poet Benjamin Zephaniah has publicly rejected an OBE from the Queen in protest at British government policies, including the decision to go to war in Iraq.

Writing exclusively in the Guardian today, Zephaniah breaks with the convention that those rejecting honours should do so privately when he openly dismissed the award as a legacy of colonialism.

The Rastafarian poet argues that the very name of the Order of the British Empire reminds him of &quot;thousands of years of brutality - it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised&quot;.

Zephaniah also challenges the prime minister to clarify the &quot;suspicious circumstances&quot; surrounding his cousin's death in police custody.

Zephaniah was perhaps an unusual choice to be nominated for an OBE: one of his poems, Bought and Sold, criticises contemporaries who compromise their work by accepting honours.

Today, he condemns those who permit ego to win out over artistic integrity. Courting popular figures with honours is &quot;what cool Britannia is all about&quot;, he writes. &quot;It gives OBEs to cool rock stars, successful businesswomen and blacks who would be militant in order to give the impression that it is inclusive.&quot; He feels such people with OBEs after their names have &quot;been had&quot;.

The poet writes: &quot;Me? I thought, OBE me? Up yours, I thought ... You can't fool me, Mr Blair. You want to privatise us all; you want to send us to war; you stay silent when we need you to speak for us, preferring to be the voice of the USA.&quot;

Zephaniah joins the ranks of luminaries such as the actor Helen Mirren and the film director Ken Loach who turned down similar honours. In keeping with the request of the prime minister's office, however, they kept tight-lipped about the offer until some years later.

Downing Street refused to comment on the poet's rejection. A spokesman said: &quot;We don't discuss honours lists. It is a matter for Mr Zephaniah.

seet here

[Wahalla]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we should hang on for dear life on to the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Privy Council</span>! </div></div>



Here's my take on that: As a staunch opponent of the death penalty, and knowing that the UK Privy Council is not in favour of it, I would have to admit that I don't mind that capital punishment cases, in particular, end up at the Privy Council. I see that the last execution in Jamaica took place roughly 22 years ago because the then JLP government had placed a moratorium on the death penalty. Of course, the Privy Council doesn't decide only murder cases, but it's a trade-off I'm comfortable with - at the moment. Also, its unbiased detachment from Jamaica's political wranglings is a good thing.

The two major parties NOW favour the death penalty (some prominent JLP parliamentarians had opposed it). During the Patterson administration, knowing that the Privy Council is likely to rule against the execution, and because hanging would give the <span style="font-weight: bold">impression</span> that the government is doing something about crime (it actually wasn't), and because both Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago had signaled that they favoured the death penalty, Patterson pushed for the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) to replace the Privy Council - and for other reasons, to be fair, that had to do with the development of a Caribbean jurisprudence.

If the death penalty is abolished by an Act of Parliament, then I wouldn't mind Jamaica replacing the Privy Council with the CCJ. Ideally, though, I would prefer a restructuring of the judiciary where the Jamaican Supreme Court is really Supreme, and is Jamaica's final appellate court. But I don't see these two things happening anytime soon. </div></div>

I agree with most of this. We replace the British monarch with what ????? How bout the ethopian royal familiy ???? Then it is still a monarchy.... The privy council is more liberal than the CCJ would ever be.. And Privy council cost us less than the CCJ will... <span style="font-weight: bold">I like an aspect of the historical connection with the UK. for bad to worst they were a significant part of our history.. and a major influence on our past</span>

The importance of a none party poltical head of state was demonstrated in the UK during the gulf war.. Compare that to the US where any opostition was veiwed as opoposition to Bu****e poliyc thus gave it an aura of threachery... The need for a loyal opposition is to me a fundamental nesccity.. other wise the party in power dresses itself in patrotisms and views any descent as treachery....

an elected head of state ????? more pnp v jlp dynamic ????

another solution would be replace the senate with a house elected based on the % of the popular vote... thus there would be in theory other poltical parites and groups elelected.. and the split between the two major parties would be close to parity... and the Senate votes for a head of state.. assumng that the head of state needs 75% of the senate votes to be elected thus forcing compormise....

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

is it on the record why benjamin declined? </div></div>







Rasta poet publicly rejects his OBE



* Merope Mills
* The Guardian, Thursday 27 November 2003 10.55 GMT
* Article history

The leading poet Benjamin Zephaniah has publicly rejected an OBE from the Queen in protest at British government policies, including the decision to go to war in Iraq.

Writing exclusively in the Guardian today, Zephaniah breaks with the convention that those rejecting honours should do so privately when he openly dismissed the award as a legacy of colonialism.

The Rastafarian poet argues that the very name of the Order of the British Empire reminds him of &quot;thousands of years of brutality - it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised&quot;.

Zephaniah also challenges the prime minister to clarify the &quot;suspicious circumstances&quot; surrounding his cousin's death in police custody.

Zephaniah was perhaps an unusual choice to be nominated for an OBE: one of his poems, Bought and Sold, criticises contemporaries who compromise their work by accepting honours.

Today, he condemns those who permit ego to win out over artistic integrity. Courting popular figures with honours is &quot;what cool Britannia is all about&quot;, he writes. &quot;It gives OBEs to cool rock stars, successful businesswomen and blacks who would be militant in order to give the impression that it is inclusive.&quot; He feels such people with OBEs after their names have &quot;been had&quot;.

The poet writes: &quot;Me? I thought, OBE me? Up yours, I thought ... You can't fool me, Mr Blair. You want to privatise us all; you want to send us to war; you stay silent when we need you to speak for us, preferring to be the voice of the USA.&quot;

Zephaniah joins the ranks of luminaries such as the actor Helen Mirren and the film director Ken Loach who turned down similar honours. In keeping with the request of the prime minister's office, however, they kept tight-lipped about the offer until some years later.

Downing Street refused to comment on the poet's rejection. A spokesman said: &quot;We don't discuss honours lists. It is a matter for Mr Zephaniah.

seet here </div></div>

props to him;
not just going along with the herds but having a principle

[jah_yout]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we should hang on for dear life on to the <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Privy Council</span>! </div></div>



Here's my take on that: As a staunch opponent of the death penalty, and knowing that the UK Privy Council is not in favour of it, I would have to admit that I don't mind that capital punishment cases, in particular, end up at the Privy Council. I see that the last execution in Jamaica took place roughly 22 years ago because the then JLP government had placed a moratorium on the death penalty. Of course, the Privy Council doesn't decide only murder cases, but it's a trade-off I'm comfortable with - at the moment. Also, its unbiased detachment from Jamaica's political wranglings is a good thing.

The two major parties NOW favour the death penalty (some prominent JLP parliamentarians had opposed it). During the Patterson administration, knowing that the Privy Council is likely to rule against the execution, and because hanging would give the <span style="font-weight: bold">impression</span> that the government is doing something about crime (it actually wasn't), and because both Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago had signaled that they favoured the death penalty, Patterson pushed for the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) to replace the Privy Council - and for other reasons, to be fair, that had to do with the development of a Caribbean jurisprudence.

If the death penalty is abolished by an Act of Parliament, then I wouldn't mind Jamaica replacing the Privy Council with the CCJ. Ideally, though, I would prefer a restructuring of the judiciary where the Jamaican Supreme Court is really Supreme, and is Jamaica's final appellate court. But I don't see these two things happening anytime soon. </div></div>

I agree with most of this. We replace the British monarch with what ????? How bout the ethopian royal familiy ???? Then it is still a monarchy.... The privy council is more liberal than the CCJ would ever be.. And Privy council cost us less than the CCJ will... <span style="font-weight: bold">I like an aspect of the historical connection with the UK. for bad to worst they were a significant part of our history.. and a major influence on our past</span>

The importance of a none party poltical head of state was demonstrated in the UK during the gulf war.. Compare that to the US where any opostition was veiwed as opoposition to Bu****e poliyc thus gave it an aura of threachery... The need for a loyal opposition is to me a fundamental nesccity.. other wise the party in power dresses itself in patrotisms and views any descent as treachery....

an elected head of state ????? more pnp v jlp dynamic ????

another solution would be replace the senate with a house elected based on the % of the popular vote... thus there would be in theory other poltical parites and groups elelected.. and the split between the two major parties would be close to parity... and the Senate votes for a head of state.. assumng that the head of state needs 75% of the senate votes to be elected thus forcing compormise.... </div></div>

so you have no identity outside of massah?
how has the queen helped us in our two-party state bliss?

[Dyoll_73]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with most of this. We replace the British monarch with what ????? How bout the ethopian royal familiy ???? Then it is still a monarchy.... The privy council is more liberal than the CCJ would ever be.. And Privy council cost us less than the CCJ will... <span style="font-weight: bold">I like an aspect of the historical connection with the UK. for bad to worst they were a significant part of our history.. and a major influence on our past</span>

The importance of a none party poltical head of state was demonstrated in the UK during the gulf war.. Compare that to the US where any opostition was veiwed as opoposition to Bu****e poliyc thus gave it an aura of threachery... The need for a loyal opposition is to me a fundamental nesccity.. other wise the party in power dresses itself in patrotisms and views any descent as treachery....

an elected head of state ????? more pnp v jlp dynamic ????

another solution would be replace the senate with a house elected based on the % of the popular vote... thus there would be in theory other poltical parites and groups elelected.. and the split between the two major parties would be close to parity... and the Senate votes for a head of state.. assumng that the head of state needs 75% of the senate votes to be elected thus forcing compormise.... </div></div>

If Jamaica goes the way of a republic, I imagine it would remain within the Commonwealth, as India and South Africa, for example, do. The member countries of the Commonwealth do make a lively bunch.

Under the current constitutional arrangement, the possibility exists for a 'third party' to win seats in the House of Representatives (the Lower House), but the Senate is another matter: only the PM and the designated Opposition Leader can make nominations.

I have to tell you, I don't hold out much hope for bi-partisanship in the current political environment. The people who wrote Jamaica's constitution deliberately created the scenario whereby the sitting government doesn't enjoy a two-thirds majority in the Senate, and presumably, this forces compromise. I think this is a recipe for gridlock; I'm not a fan of divided government.

I allow that there can also exist a gridlock in the House of Representatives, as is possible in Jamaica right now where the JLP has a very slim margin of seats. A good idea from one side is simply shot down by the other side if is felt that there is some political advantage to be gained. But, at least, this gridlock in the House would have been created by the voters (not intentionally I think) and not by the Constitution. Simple majorities (51%) should prevail, except in matters involving a change in the constitution where a two-thirds vote gives legitimacy, or better yet, have a referendum.

I don't know how much support this would have, but I'm for a unicameral legislature that accommodates representatives of various parties. The possibility exists for gridlock here as well, and the potential problems of forming coalitions even more perplexing, but I'm thinking that the PMs party would also control a majority (at least 51%) of the seats in Parliament - by choice of the electorate, or course. We discussed this here a few weeks ago, and something I think is extremely important: the need for members of parliament to establish residence in the constituency they represent.

An elected Head of State??? Popularly elected? Yes, but only if that role is combined with Head of Government. I'm not sure I can point to a country where the PM who is an MP is also designated as Head of State. But I don't think it's an impossibility provided the appropriate checks and balances are placed in a revised constitution.

[illuzion]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: illuzion</div><div class="ubbcode-body">whats wrong with being knighted???

find something else to be preturbed about.. this false pride and foolish &quot;rebellion&quot; against the queen as head of state has been done a million times over. Get over it. </div></div>

the knight thing i don't care about...but are you in favor of the british queen being jamaica's head of state indefinitely? </div></div>

no, I'm in favor of PJ Patterson or Portia Simpson being head..
Heck how bout Zeeks or Jim Brown?
This debate been flagged to death. Its a brain dead debate of ZERO consequence.

This is one of those easy target for the wannabe Rebels...

if y'all want sure lets debate it, heck i got a few hours to waste

[illuzion]

Re: A wen Jamaica a go get rid a this foolishness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by the way, the Queen is the head of state for Canada for example.
yet nuff a them Jamaican &quot;purist&quot; bleach a Canadian Commisson fi get guh tell lie and get a visitor visa, then run whey as soon as dem foot touch the airport.