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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
So wait! Everybody a police informant in that neighbourhood?
So wait! Everybody a police informant in that neighbourhood?
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Gates case: What's race got to do with it?
Gates case: What's race got to do with it?
A predominately white segment of America sees the incident as further evidence that the country is becoming a post-racial society. Many blacks disagree.
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the July 28, 2009 edition
Thursday night, President Obama will welcome Henry Louis Gates Jr. and James Crowley to the White House in what he hopes will be a "teachable moment" on race in America.
Yet for many Americans – and especially segments of white America – the primary lesson of Professor Gates's July 16 arrest is that race never was a real issue in the case.
The arresting police sergeant accused of being a racist – Crowley – taught racial profiling awareness courses, it turned out. The woman who made the 911 call to report what she thought might be a break-in didn't say anything about Gates being African-American.
A movement is afoot to move the nation beyond race, and it has found voice in the Gates incident, where Gates's allegation that he was disrespected and eventually arrested by Crowley only because he is black has yet to find firm corroborating evidence.
But it is also taking form in a surge in reverse-discrimination lawsuits – like the one recently before the US Supreme Court – that seek to wipe away what critics say are the consequences of affirmative action: jobs where "no whites need apply."
To many blacks, the idea that America is "post-racial" is ludicrous. They note how subtly the phrase "two black men" found its way into Crowley's police report.
But the character of the national debate about Gates and Crowley hints at a shift in America's conversation on race.
"We've reached a point where white males are saying, 'We've done all that we need to do in terms of treating black people with kid gloves and giving them deference. Now let's do what's right regardless of race,' " says Ward Connerly, director of the American Civil Rights Institute, who is black.
On the Gates incident, these people agree with Christopher Hitchens, who writes on Slate.com: "Professor Gates should have taken his stand on the Bill of Rights and not on his epidermis or that of the arresting officer, and, if he didn't have the presence of mind to do so, that needn't inhibit the rest of us."
More broadly, they point to the election of a black president. In the workplace, a sort of civil rights movement in reverse is in the offing. Complaints by whites of "reverse discrimination" have risen by 45 percent during the past 10 years. These cases represent nearly 11 percent of the caseload of the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
The impetus is economic as well as ideological. "With this economy, you might raise your eyebrow a little more quickly because there's not another job right around the corner available for you," says Denise Drake, a labor attorney with Spencer, Fane, Britt & Browne in Kansas City, Mo.
Cleveland-based culture critic Jimi Izrael scoffs at the idea that whites and blacks can now see the world through the same eyes. He notes that he was once arrested for disorderly conduct for mouthing off to a cop.
"White people think police are there to protect and serve," says Mr. Izrael. "Black people know better."
But what the Gates affair has done – and what Mr. Obama hopes to further Thursday – is help the nation defuse racial tensions by seeing both sides of the issue.
"When Obama is talking about a teachable moment ... he's saying that we need to see [events] from the other guy's point of view in order to come to a better understanding of how to evaluate the situation," says Deborah Hellman, author of the book, "When Is Discrimination Wrong?"Comment
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What should have happened in Gates confrontation?
What should have happened in Gates confrontation?
Police experts say Gates probably overreacted. But Sergeant Crowley appeared to let the situation spiral out of control, they add.
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the July 27, 2009 edition
Every day across America, police officers investigate murders, defuse domestic squabbles, and arrest dope dealers.
But training is just as important when officers come across a "real American" who is combative and refuses to defer to police authority – even if the alleged offense is relatively minor.
The arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr., the prominent Harvard scholar, has brought the issue of race and policing literally from the heights of academic inquiry to a dramatic faceoff between a blue-collar Boston-area cop and one of the ivory tower's most recognizable black scholars.
But perhaps one of the core underlying issues in the incident is one of policing: Officers walk a thin line between staying safe and adhering to the Constitution – and straying over that line can have consequences, especially when it involves the black community.
"We have a lot of African-American males in this country who are tired of having to justify their existence on the white streets of America," says Lorie Fridell, a criminologist at the University of South Florida in Tampa. "And if the police don't acknowledge that, they're going to lose a future person who will call the police with information, they're going to lose the witness to a crime, they're going to lose the person on the jury who believes the police officer's story."
LESSONS TO BE LEARNED
What lessons, then, can be drawn from the July 16 altercation on Gates' front porch on Ware Street?
For average Americans, the case shows that it's never a good idea to get "lippy," as police officers say, during an investigation of any kind.
And for police officers, it isn't just having "thick skin," one of America's top cops says. It is to understand, at a procedural level, the deep trust Americans have in basic constitutional values.
"Any cop can deal with a robbery suspect, but show me the cop who can handle a real American," says former Seattle police chief Norm Stamper, quoting policing expert George Thompson. "That's someone, when you say, 'Roll down the window,' says, 'No,' or who meets you at the threshold at home and says, 'No, you can't come in. Show me your warrant.' "
"Americans are the beneficiaries of the incredible foresight and wisdom of our Founding Fathers, who over time created a Constitution that embeds these rights of freedom for Americans," he adds. "So when you come across a real American, how competent are you in carrying out your delicate and demanding and too-often dangerous job?"
WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED
In his view of the Gates case, which he has studied closely, Mr. Stamper suggests that Gates overreacted. But Cambridge Police Sgt. James Crowley also made a basic mistake: By becoming distracted by Gates's criticisms and protestations, some of which invoked race, his warnings to Gates to calm down fell short of their mark. And as other police officers arrived, Stamper reasons that it became more difficult for Crowley to back down in front of his peers.
"As soon as you give a warning twice, your authority is shot," Stamper says. "Then, you've approached this thing in precisely the opposite way of how you should have approached it."
The best practice, Stamper says, is called "verbal judo" – and it's an art of its own.
The trick is not to become offended that someone is challenging authority but to turn the argument back on the subject, Stamper says. Instead of making repeated warnings like, for example, "Roll down the window or else," an officer should start by saying, "If you're me right now, how would you resolve this situation?"
Simply by turning the focus back to the subject and listening often de-escalates the tension, and it can be surprisingly hard to do. If the situation still escalates, an officer can take more dramatic actions, if [legally justified], Stamper says.
But for all the Gates case's lessons, former police officer George Kirkham, now a professor at Florida State University, says that it's actually very unusual for a single individual to be arrested for disorderly conduct on their own front porch. After years of studying Florida arrest reports, in fact, Mr. Kirkham says it's the only one he's come across.
"Once we cross this Rubicon – we know this man lives here, he's presented his ID, and it's inconceivable that he would be there for any illegitimate purpose – the police officer doesn't get to have his feelings hurt," he says. "That's why this is larger than black and white, and it goes to basic constitutional rights that we all enjoy – black, white or brown – including the right to be in your own home and say what you want."
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Even after 911 tape released in Gates case, questions linger
Even after 911 tape released in Gates case, questions linger
The woman who placed the call never said anything about black men breaking into Professor Gates's house. So how did it get into Sergeant Crowley's report?
By Patrik Jonsson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
from the July 27, 2009 edition
The Cambridge Police Department on Monday released tapes from the 911 call and the incident that led to the arrest of Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. on his own front porch, putting to rest some questions but raising others.
The 911 caller never mentions black men in the 911 recording. She says she saw two men attempting to force entry into Professor Gates's house, but she did not mention their race until asked by the dispatcher. Then she guessed – incorrectly – that one might be Hispanic.
This seems to suggest that so-called "racial profiling by proxy" – police being influenced by racial biases of a caller – did not come directly into play in the Gates arrest. But it leaves unresolved a line in Sgt. James Crowley's police report, where he says a neighbor told him two black men entered the house.
The case set off a firestorm of debate about the tensions between blacks and law enforcement. After first saying the Cambridge police "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates, President Obama on Friday said he hoped the incident would be a "teachable moment" for a nation still fraught with racial mistrust.
But part of that introspection includes getting all the facts out in the open, critics say.
The Cambridge Police Department sought to do just that by releasing the tapes Monday. The tapes shed some light, but still leave room for debate about what, exactly, happened on July 16 on Ware Street.
Gates, who is black, had returned from a business trip and was trying to force open the front door of his house – which was jammed – with his limo driver, whom Gates has described as Moroccan.
The 911 tape indicates that the caller, Lucia Whalen, wasn't even sure that she was witnessing a break-in. "I don't know if they live there, and they just had a hard time with their key, but I did notice that they kind of used their shoulder to try to barge in, and they got in," she said.
After arriving on the scene, Crowley confronted Gates. Gates first refused to show ID, but later let the officer in and showed him two forms of identification, while berating him for racially profiling him. The officer has said he was ascertaining facts after being called to an area that had seen a spike in the number of daytime burglaries.
But the tapes failed to clear up the debate over how unruly Mr. Gates actually became during the encounter, leading to his arrest for disorderly conduct. The charges were subsequently dropped.
While Crowley wrote in his report that Gates' behavior on the porch "alarmed" the neighbors on the street, communications between the sergeant and the Cambridge dispatch center are unclear and don't immediately indicate that Gates was being overly noisy in his protestations.
In the tapes, Crowley says, calmly, that he's "with a gentleman who says he resides here [but] is rather uncooperative."
He then adds: "Keep the cars coming."
Commentators said the tapes were important to clear up several murky details.
"We need to get to the truth of what happened in order to learn from this incident," writes William Jacobson, a Cornell University Law School professor, on his Legal Insurrection blog. "We need a winner and a loser, based on the evidence of what actually happened. No one truly can move on, and we can't just all get along, until then."
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So wait! Everybody a police informant in that neighbourhood? </div></div>Everybody is police informant in 99.999% of American neoghborhoods.
you didn't know that??Comment
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Police call me all the while if someone report something about any of my neighbors. Sometimes they want to pas through my premises sometimes they just want confirmation . And i live amongst the politicians. even the mayor lives on the street parallel to mine. They call anybody. They actually knows who live where since it comes up on the phones when they call out. </div></div>
that's ridiculous. by law, when 911 is called, they have to respond. Even if you call and hang up, a squad car will try and investigate whenever possible. Even if you say no crime is being committed, they have to come. After all, you might be forced to say that. </div></div>It is not ridiculous in our area, although it may be in yours. every community deal with emergencies in their own way. Our way work well for the community. They don't like to see mark cars in the neighborhood, and never a siren.
We even have fines stiff fines for that matter if a home owner alarm goes false off more that a number of times for the year. one alarms are tied to the town system.
we even have many corner store whose cameras the police have access to at the station and in some cruisers.
and every business place the e police have to be able to see inside from their cruisers. That mean nothing in front of the windows.
Ours is a real big brother town.
i would tell you about a police officer from a neighboring town, that came to our town where his chief lives and throw beer cans on his lawn. He did not know about the local system. the officer lost his job and was the laughing stock of the area.Comment
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The Gates of Political Distraction
Opinion
OPINION: THE TILTING YARD
JULY 28, 2009, 10:16 P.M. ET
The Gates of Political Distraction
Obama’s mistake was falling for a culture war diversion.
By THOMAS FRANKShare:
The essential point about Gates-gate, or the tempest over last week’s arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., is this: Most liberal commentary on the subject has taken race as its theme. Conservative commentators, by contrast, have furiously hit the class button.
Liberals, by and large, immediately plugged the event into their unfair-racial-profiling template, and proceeded to call for blacks and whites to “listen to each other’s narratives” and other such anodyne niceties even after it started to seem that police racism was probably not what caused the incident.
Conservatives, meanwhile, were following their own “narrative,” the one in which racism is often exaggerated and the real victim is the unassuming common man scorned by the deference-demanding “liberal elite.” Commentators on the right zeroed in on the fact that Mr. Gates is an “Ivy League big shot,” a “limousine liberal,” and a star professor at Harvard, an institution they regard with special loathing. They pointed out that Mr. Gates allegedly addressed the cop with that deathless snob phrase, “you don’t know who you’re messing with”; they reminded us that Cambridge, Mass., is home to a particularly obnoxious combination of left-wing orthodoxy and upper-class entitlement; and they boiled over Mr. Gates’s demand that the officer “beg my forgiveness.”
“Don’t you just love a rich guy who summers on the Vineyard asking a working-class cop to ‘beg’? How perfectly Cambridge,” wrote the right-wing radio talker Michael Graham in the Boston Herald.
Conservatives won this round in the culture wars, not merely because most of the facts broke their way, but because their grievance is one that a certain species of liberal never seems to grasp. Whether the issue is abortion, evolution or recycling, these liberal patricians are forever astonished to discover that the professions and institutions and attitudes that they revere are seen by others as arrogance and affectation.
The “elitism” narrative routinely blind-sides them, takes them by surprise again and again. There they are, feeling good about their solidarity with the coffee-growers of Guatemala, and then they find themselves on the receiving end of criticism from, say, the plumbers of Ohio.
The Gates incident was a trap that could not have been better crafted to ensnare President Barack Obama, who is himself a loyal son of academia’s most prestigious reaches, and to whom it was immediately obvious, even without benefit of the facts, that the Cambridge police “acted stupidly” in the situation.
Mr. Obama’s way of backing out of his gaffe was just as telling: He invited Mr. Gates and the policeman who arrested him to the White House for a beer, the beverage so often a gauge of a politician’s blue-collar bona fides. One symbolic gesture, hopefully, can exorcise another.
Class is always an ironic issue in American politics, and the irony this time is particularly poignant. We are in the midst of a great national debate about how to make health care affordable; almost nothing is more important to working-class Americans. “For the health of the nation, both physically and economically, we need a system with a public option,” Leo Gerard, president of the United Steelworkers, wrote recently in the Huffington Post. “And we need it now.”
But whether working families get it now depends to a large degree on Mr. Obama’s personal popularity. And now comes Gates-gate, this latest burst of fake populism from the right. Waving the banner of the long-suffering working class, the tax-cutting friends of the top 2% have managed to dent the president’s credibility, to momentarily halt his forward movement on the health-care issue.
Umbrage at a Harvard professor’s class snobbery, in other words, might derail this generation’s greatest hope for actually mitigating the class divide.
Another irony: Long before he became a hostage to the culture wars, Henry Louis Gates had another career as a pithy commentator on the culture wars. The false appeal of victimization was something he understood well. In “Loose Canons,” his 1992 book on the subject, he joked that his colleagues should “award a prize at the end [of a conference] for the panelist, respondent, or contestant most oppressed.”
But when he sits down for that can of beer in the White House, it is another passage from his book that I hope Mr. Gates remembers. Speaking for liberal academics, he wrote in 1992 that “success has spoiled us; the right has robbed us of our dyspepsia; and the routinized production of righteous indignation is allowed to substitute for critical rigor.”
Today the cranking out of righteous indignation is a robust growth industry, and it threatens to do far worse than cloud our critical faculties. Help us to put the culture wars aside, Professor Gates. Too much is on the line these days.
Write to [email protected]
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Re: Even after 911 tape released in Gates case, questions linger
<span style="font-size: 11pt">Why are they harping on whether the woman said black?
Are they trying to defend her?
Since the woman said not have to tell the officer that Skip was black. IT is not necessary for anybody to tell him that he is black for him to allow the race of the person to influence his behavior towards that person. He see the person color with hi sown eyes and can make the decision as to how to be have towards that person. this is so illogical. </span>Comment
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Should Henry Louis Gates Sip or Sue?
July 27, 2009, 11:59 PM
Should Henry Louis Gates Sip or Sue?
By RANDY COHEN
Librado Romero/The New York Times
The Issue
Last week in Cambridge, Mass., Sgt. James Crowley arrested Henry Louis Gates Jr., a professor at Harvard, for disorderly conduct while responding to a reported break-in at Gates’s home. The charges were subsequently dropped, and the city of Cambridge expressed regret, but Gates holds out the possibility of suing Crowley, the city or its Police Department. President Obama has urged calm and conciliation, and invited Gates and Crowley to have a beer and a chat at the White House. Should Gates sip or sue?
The Argument
Gates should enjoy a cool one and then file suit, assuming he has legal grounds to do so. We Americans are often mocked for being overly litigious, but we are not nearly litigious enough. In the right circumstances, filing suit can be a way to pursue social justice, and that makes it thoroughly ethical.
I am not encouraging frivolous lawsuits or those inspired by TV pitchmen who use the words “slip and fall” as if invoking El Dorado. Rather, I refer to suits filed to oppose systemic injustice, for the benefit of the larger community, often at some personal risk and expense. This is not opportunism; it’s altruism, not self-interest but civic virtue. A lawsuit by Gates could lead to a formal examination of the troubled history of police interactions with African-Americans and hence would meet this standard.
Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, an organization that has sued the New York Police Department many times on behalf of individuals and groups, told me that lawsuits can be “an important tool for reform when coupled with advocacy and public education efforts and when the circumstances are conducive to change.”
Such laudable results can flow not only from great historic decisions — Brown v. Board of Education, Roe v. Wade — but from local actions, like the N.Y.C.L.U.’s suits over the New York Police Department’s stop-and-frisk policies and its handling of demonstrators during the 2004 Republican convention. Simply participating in such a suit can be regarded as the crowning achievement of a lifetime. When the pediatrician Howard Engle died last week, the headline of his obituary in The New York Times was “H. A. Engle, Tobacco Plaintiff, Dies at 89.”
Indeed, our popular culture lionizes those who sue righteously. Paul Newman wins a medical malpractice case in “The Verdict.” Julia Roberts takes on a polluting power company in “Erin Brockovich.” John Travolta sues a company dumping toxic waste in “A Civil Action.” (And these last two movies were based on actual people and cases.)
Even a losing lawsuit can compel a powerful institution — government agency or corporation — to disclose its policies and practices during legal proceedings. A lawsuit can provide a public forum to examine a significant issue, guided by a dispassionate judge. What could be more virtuous?
There are arguments against going to law. For Gates in particular, using the courts is hardly the only way to be heard. He has been widely interviewed about the arrest; even his daughter has spoken about it on television. (Crowley first told his side of the story on a local sports talk-radio show.) So prominent is Gates that a reporter at a White House press conference asked the president about the arrest. Gates could write a book about it, lecture about it at Harvard or explore it in a television series. (He was returning from shooting one in China the day of the incident.)
Nor is he ethically obligated to sue. Doing so is supererogatory, above and beyond the call of duty. Only he can decide if he has the stomach for a struggle and the resources — financial, psychological — to proceed.
And if he does, there is no guarantee that he would initiate real social change. David Feige, the former trial chief of the Bronx Defenders, public defenders in, well, yes, the Bronx, told me: “There is a fairly equivocal record in forcing reforms through individual lawsuits. Class-action suits have been more effective — those brought to improve prison conditions, for example. So what we really need is more broad, social-justice class-action suits.”
These arguments notwithstanding, Gates should sue. Social change proceeds through the combination of many forces — legislation, litigation and public discourse among them. For Gates to contribute to this effort would be laudable. (And given the high — and disheartening — number of African-American men who, since Gates arrest, have described their own similar encounters with the police, the class-action suit Feige calls for might be sadly possible.)
The president has softened his initial response to this affair, withdrawing his remark at the press conference that “the Cambridge police acted stupidly.” He now suggests that both Gates and Crowley “overreacted.” Quite likely. But if Gates overreacted, he did so only as an individual, an outburst that might be obnoxious but is not criminal. There is no law against Contempt of Cop. If Crowley overreacted, he erred as a professional, perhaps abusing his office in a manner that is particularly fraught, given the history of African-Americans and the police. That’s what should be examined in court.
Both Crowley and Gates have accepted Obama’s invitation. Courteous conversation is a fine thing; beer is a fine thing. But not even White House brew can resolve this conflict the way a trial can. Gates and Crowley should drink heartily, speak civilly and eventually reconvene in a courtroom.
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sukuna</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So wait! Everybody a police informant in that neighbourhood? </div></div>Everybody is police informant in 99.999% of American neoghborhoods.
you didn't know that??
</div></div>
It is certainly not as broad as you put it here, but the police to call you on every missionComment
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
No they don't deal with emergencies in their 'own' way. There is a standard emergency response protocol, perhaps there are slight deviations, but the response is fairly standardized. What you are saying is patently ridiculous. They may seek to gather information but believe me, they do not come or not come at any civilians whim. You may have whatever local system you want to think, it doesn't matter. Police have a responsibility to the LAW first and foremost. The law of the land is that if a 911 call comes in, they have to investigate until they are satisfied the call is dealt with to satisfaction. Again, even if you call and hang up without saying something, eventually a cop will come to check the call. They have to. About people don't want to see marked cars. Seriously.
Anyway once a 911 call comes in, it must be investigated to the satisfaction of the law. It is not up to an officer's discretion until they arrive and ascertain the reason for the call. Can you imagine the civil/lawsuits that the government would be exposed and open to if what you are saying is true, it would cripple municipalities if god forbid someone's neighbor did not perceive there to be a problem, and there was? And the police used as their excuse, oh well, we phoned Dr. Dudd and he said nothing was the matter at his neighbors during the home invasion, because he can see through walls you know....
come on Dr. what you are saying is making no sense.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Police call me all the while if someone report something about any of my neighbors. Sometimes they want to pas through my premises sometimes they just want confirmation . And i live amongst the politicians. even the mayor lives on the street parallel to mine. They call anybody. They actually knows who live where since it comes up on the phones when they call out. </div></div>
that's ridiculous. by law, when 911 is called, they have to respond. Even if you call and hang up, a squad car will try and investigate whenever possible. Even if you say no crime is being committed, they have to come. After all, you might be forced to say that. </div></div>It is not ridiculous in our area, although it may be in yours. every community deal with emergencies in their own way. Our way work well for the community. They don't like to see mark cars in the neighborhood, and never a siren.
We even have fines stiff fines for that matter if a home owner alarm goes false off more that a number of times for the year. one alarms are tied to the town system.
we even have many corner store whose cameras the police have access to at the station and in some cruisers.
and every business place the e police have to be able to see inside from their cruisers. That mean nothing in front of the windows.
Ours is a real big brother town.
i would tell you about a police officer from a neighboring town, that came to our town where his chief lives and throw beer cans on his lawn. He did not know about the local system. the officer lost his job and was the laughing stock of the area. </div></div>Comment
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No they don't deal with emergencies in their 'own' way. There is a standard emergency response protocol, perhaps there are slight deviations, but the response is fairly standardized. What you are saying is patently ridiculous. They may seek to gather information but believe me, they do not come or not come at any civilians whim. You may have whatever local system you want to think, it doesn't matter. Police have a responsibility to the LAW first and foremost. The law of the land is that if a 911 call comes in, they have to investigate until they are satisfied the call is dealt with to satisfaction. Again, even if you call and hang up without saying something, eventually a cop will come to check the call. They have to. About people don't want to see marked cars. Seriously.
Anyway once a 911 call comes in, it must be investigated to the satisfaction of the law. It is not up to an officer's discretion until they arrive and ascertain the reason for the call. Can you imagine the civil/lawsuits that the government would be exposed and open to if what you are saying is true, it would cripple municipalities if god forbid someone's neighbor did not perceive there to be a problem, and there was? And the police used as their excuse, oh well, we phoned Dr. Dudd and he said nothing was the matter at his neighbors during the home invasion, because he can see through walls you know....
come on Dr. what you are saying is making no sense.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 20pt"> OK You are right. </span>Originally posted by Dr.DuddComment
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
out of curiousity, what was the officer's name who became the laughing stock and lost his job for vandalism.
guess he had a weak union/pba.Comment
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Re: TRANSCRIPT OF GATES 911 CALL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">out of curiousity, what was the officer's name who became the laughing stock and lost his job for vandalism.
guess he had a weak union/pba. </div></div>
dont waste your time with doc...if he tells you to walk you better run
edited to add..DONT YOU GUYS SLEEP?Comment
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Charles Barkley thinks Obama should apologize...
Charles Barkley has an interesting take on the Henry Louis Gates Jr. issue. He thinks Obama should apologize. Scroll to the bottom of this page and play the interview title "Charles Barkley- 7-28-09". The comments are toward the middle of the interview so give it some time.Out of Many One People Online
http://www.jamaicans.comComment
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