Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

[Dr.Dudd]

Teens, guns and birds - Youngsters to be granted user's permit
Published: Saturday | August 1, 2009


Shernette Gillispie, Gleaner Intern
THE FIREARM Licensing Authority (FLA) will be granting teenagers a user's permit for a year, so they can participate in this year's bird-hunting season, which begins next month. The permit will also allow teenagers to compete in other sport involving the use of a firearm such as speed shooting.

However, minors will only be allowed to operate shotguns under the supervision of the primary holders.

Minors wishing to be in possession of a valid firearm user's permit must present a letter of authorisation from a valid shotgun licensee, proof of identity and age, and two photographs. They are also required to complete an application form and pay a fee of $4,000.

Errol Strong, chairman of the FLA, said he did not believe that it was dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to use guns. "I don't think so at all. This (minors having user's permit) is something that happens all across the world," he told The Gleaner.

He said the primary holders of shotguns satisfied the FLA regulations and, as such, were deemed responsible persons.

Strong said that during previous bird-shooting seasons teenagers who accompanied their parents as 'bird-boys' would at times shoot birds themselves.

"We do have instances where authorities have prosecuted youngsters who have been caught out in the field shooting birds thus, it (user's permit) makes it formal," he said.

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[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

So the children of the favoured class will be granted gun permit while the rest of the adults are forced to suffer being daily target of gun toting murderers??
Now it gets from bad to worse. Those Jamaicans that sit back and take it are just spineless cowards. There rather to curl up and wait while hoping that ,the next murder won't be them instead of standing up to the repressive government for preventing them from protecting their life and family. Cowards I tell you, slithering cowards.
their bellies should be all yellow, if they opoen their shirts. .

[Panajar]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

"He who has the gold makes the rules" . "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

To that I say,"He wo are too much of a cowardice, shall die like dogs, while squirming in a corner, begging for their lives".
It is not about he who pays thepiper. Since the gun men don't seem to be paying any piper.
they seem to be in the collecting business.
Probably the saying should be he who have the guns have the oower,and he who have the power <span style="font-weight: bold">are the rulers</span><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;He who has the gold makes the rules&quot; . &quot;He who pays the piper calls the tune&quot;. </div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

Amazing when you consider that is was only in January that he said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">No guns for you!</span>
Firearm Licensing Authority boss rejects calls to arm the nation
<span style="font-style: italic">KARYL WALKER, Crime/court co-ordinator [email protected]
Thursday, January 29, 2009</span>

CHAIRMAN of the Firearms Licensing Authority Errol Strong has rejected calls from gun rights lobbyists and members of the public who have been clamouring for Government to relax legislation to allow all law-abiding citizens easier access to owning firearms.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">According to Strong, with Jamaica's high propensity for violence, the move could backfire with devastating results.
&quot;In the context of the Jamaican experience, the right for everybody to own a gun could have profound consequences. Quite often attacks on licensed firearm holders and the police are to get the guns,&quot; Strong told the Observer.</span>

Strong got the backing of a woman who just this week lost her mother and her three children in a brutal arson/gun attack in the deep rural Jamaican community of Land Top in St Thomas.

The woman, Aretha Smith, said guns are not the answer.
Smith's children - five-year-old Thalia Cousins and her two siblings, Nisha and Jawara, aged two and three years old - and her 55-year-old mother, Angela Lynch were slaughtered during the brutal attack early Monday morning.

Said Smith: &quot;If everyone had a gun then the whole Jamaica would be dead. I don't want none because God will protect me. Whoever did this. them must go down.&quot;</div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm



Another thingh I want to know if just as he stated this: <span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-style: italic">Errol Strong, chairman of the FLA, said he did not believe that it was dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to use guns. &quot;I don't think so at all. This (minors having user's permit) is something that happens all across the world,&quot; he told The Gleaner.
.</span></span>
If the people all over th eworld don hav elegal firearms without killing off each other?
people like those doesn't have the right to have power over others, since they have no morals. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Amazing when you consider that is was only in January that he said:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">No guns for you!</span>
Firearm Licensing Authority boss rejects calls to arm the nation
<span style="font-style: italic">KARYL WALKER, Crime/court co-ordinator [email protected]
Thursday, January 29, 2009</span>

CHAIRMAN of the Firearms Licensing Authority Errol Strong has rejected calls from gun rights lobbyists and members of the public who have been clamouring for Government to relax legislation to allow all law-abiding citizens easier access to owning firearms.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">According to Strong, with Jamaica's high propensity for violence, the move could backfire with devastating results.
&quot;In the context of the Jamaican experience, the right for everybody to own a gun could have profound consequences. Quite often attacks on licensed firearm holders and the police are to get the guns,&quot; Strong told the Observer.</span>

Strong got the backing of a woman who just this week lost her mother and her three children in a brutal arson/gun attack in the deep rural Jamaican community of Land Top in St Thomas.

The woman, Aretha Smith, said guns are not the answer.
Smith's children - five-year-old Thalia Cousins and her two siblings, Nisha and Jawara, aged two and three years old - and her 55-year-old mother, Angela Lynch were slaughtered during the brutal attack early Monday morning.

Said Smith: &quot;If everyone had a gun then the whole Jamaica would be dead. I don't want none because God will protect me. Whoever did this. them must go down.&quot;</div></div>
</div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Another thingh I want to know if just as he stated this: <span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-style: italic">Errol Strong, chairman of the FLA, said he did not believe that it was dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to use guns. &quot;I don't think so at all. This (minors having user's permit) is something that happens all across the world,&quot; he told The Gleaner.
.</span></span>
If the people all over th eworld don hav elegal firearms without killing off each other?</div></div>

Doc where did he say <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">illegal firearm</span>?

He is right that it not inherently dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to used guns, but I don’t know if he is right and have done any research at all about users permit.
How many countries even require a users permit to own and use a firearm.

What is glaring obvious is that this is purely a decision made on the basis of us versus them. As I said back when he had first made his statement about denying Jamaicans firearm permits to protect their life and property, it all about what class you belong to.

I think these kinds of folks, should never be allowed to hold any positions in Jamaica. Here he is saying; holding a gun and being permitted to have a license to use one to shoot birds <span style="font-style: italic">(that are not in any way shape or from presenting any physical danger to Jamaicans)</span> is fine, but in the murder capital of the world it is a totally different kettle of fish to advocate for the use of a gun to protect ones life and property.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Another thingh I want to know if just as he stated this: <span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-style: italic">Errol Strong, chairman of the FLA, said he did not believe that it was dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to use guns. &quot;I don't think so at all. This (minors having user's permit) is something that happens all across the world,&quot; he told The Gleaner.
.</span></span>
If the people all over th eworld don hav elegal firearms without killing off each other?</div></div>

Doc where did he say <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">illegal firearm</span>?

He is right that it not inherently dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to used guns, but I don’t know if he is right and have done any research at all about users permit.
How many countries even require a users permit to own and use a firearm.

What is glaring obvious is that this is purely a decision made on the basis of us versus them. As I said back when he had first made his statement about denying Jamaicans firearm permits to protect their life and property, it all about what class you belong to.

I think these kinds of folks, should never be allowed to hold any positions in Jamaica. Here he is saying; holding a gun and being permitted to have a license to use one to shoot birds <span style="font-style: italic">(that are not in any way shape or from presenting any physical danger to Jamaicans)</span> is fine, but in the murder capital of the world it is a totally different kettle of fish to advocate for the use of a gun to protect ones life and property.
</div></div> <span style="font-size: 14pt"> I was not reffering to illegal firearm. I believe that if children can get a permit to shoot bir with firearm, every law abiding citizen should haveth elegal right to own on. this law that restrict fireams ownership is all about keeping one sector starving and vulnerable to being robbed of whatever they accumulate,and the loss of their lives.
In the process impoverishing them and increasing the disparity between those who are supported by the government and those that are repressed by the government. They created th ehaves and the havenots during slavery, and have promoted it to this day. the blacks of jamaica have never got anything unless they wer willing to die for it. Now they are dying without getting anything, due do being brainwashed. </span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 14pt"> I was not reffering to illegal firearm.</span> </div></div>

My sincere apologies I read you wrong here:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the people all over th eworld don hav elegal firearms without killing off each other?</div></div>

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Another thingh I want to know if just as he stated this: <span style="font-weight: bold"> <span style="font-style: italic">Errol Strong, chairman of the FLA, said he did not believe that it was dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to use guns. &quot;I don't think so at all. This (minors having user's permit) is something that happens all across the world,&quot; he told The Gleaner.
.</span></span>
If the people all over th eworld don hav elegal firearms without killing off each other?</div></div>

Doc where did he say <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">illegal firearm</span>?

He is right that it not inherently dangerous for teenagers to be allowed to used guns, but I don’t know if he is right and have done any research at all about users permit.
How many countries even require a users permit to own and use a firearm.

What is glaring obvious is that this is purely a decision made on the basis of us versus them. As I said back when he had first made his statement about denying Jamaicans firearm permits to protect their life and property, it all about what class you belong to.

I think these kinds of folks, should never be allowed to hold any positions in Jamaica. Here he is saying; holding a gun and being permitted to have a license to use one to shoot birds <span style="font-style: italic">(that are not in any way shape or from presenting any physical danger to Jamaicans)</span> is fine, but in the murder capital of the world it is a totally different kettle of fish to advocate for the use of a gun to protect ones life and property.
</div></div> <span style="font-size: 14pt"> I was not reffering to illegal firearm. I believe that if children can get a permit to shoot bir with firearm, every law abiding citizen should haveth elegal right to own on. this law that restrict fireams ownership is all about keeping one sector starving and vulnerable to being robbed of whatever they accumulate,and their lives. </span> </div></div>
Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.

I can respect your pro-gun position. I grew up with guns. I had 20/10 vison as a kid, and my father had me shooting bottle caps at 50 yards when I was ten. I used to go hunting for doves BEFORE school. Id ride on my bike with my friend Nick for a few miles before dawn outside of town, to a waterhole we knew about. Id carry my 22x410 over under over-under, broken down in my WW2 army surplus backpack. We'd hunt for a couple of hours and then go to school. My shotgun would be in my locker all day (broken down), along with a bunch of dead doves. But... those days are long gone. The thought of ever pointing my gun at another person NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. But that was then, and this is now...

NOW I wish that all guns of every kind was illegal, I wish there were no guns... or gunpowder, or bullets.

I think that the real story of handgun ownership is probably a pretty grim statistic. (Mandela Guard Kills HimSelf) I think they are probably the 3rd or 4th cause of the owner's death (not 1 in 3 or 4, but perhaps 1 in 15 owners kills them self). Probably 1 in 10 or 15 of ALL gun owners killed a family member, and 1 in a hundred killed a neighbor. And then there are the accidental shootings...

I'm living in the West again... the place is [censored] armed trust me. There is always a sad alcohol, or meth fueled stupid death with a handgun in the news, plus all the regular daily shootings. More guns just can't be the answer.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.

I can respect your pro-gun position. I grew up with guns. I had 20/10 vison as a kid, and my father had me shooting bottle caps at 50 yards when I was ten. I used to go hunting for doves BEFORE school. Id ride on my bike with my friend Nick for a few miles before dawn outside of town, to a waterhole we knew about. Id carry my 22x410 over under over-under, broken down in my WW2 army surplus backpack. We'd hunt for a couple of hours and then go to school. My shotgun would be in my locker all day (broken down), along with a bunch of dead doves. But... those days are long gone. The thought of ever pointing my gun at another person NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. But that was then, and this is now...

NOW I wish that all guns of every kind was illegal, I wish there were no guns... or gunpowder, or bullets.

I think that the real story of handgun ownership is probably a pretty grim statistic. (Mandela Guard Kills HimSelf) I think they are probably the 3rd or 4th cause of the owner's death (not 1 in 3 or 4, but perhaps 1 in 15 owners kills them self). Probably 1 in 10 or 15 of ALL gun owners killed a family member, and 1 in a hundred killed a neighbor. And then there are the accidental shootings...

I'm living in the West again... the place is [censored] armed trust me. There is always a sad alcohol, or meth fueled stupid death with a handgun in the news, plus all the regular daily shootings. More guns just can't be the answer.



</div></div> Well nobody is kicking off your door and shoot you in bed either. Nobody is sticking guns in your face rob you and then kill you. Guns don't have to be always used even if it is available, but it should be legally available when it is needed. No citizen should be murdered because the government colluded with others to leave them vulnerable so that the others can have complete control of their lives.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.

I can respect your pro-gun position. I grew up with guns. I had 20/10 vison as a kid, and my father had me shooting bottle caps at 50 yards when I was ten. I used to go hunting for doves BEFORE school. Id ride on my bike with my friend Nick for a few miles before dawn outside of town, to a waterhole we knew about. Id carry my 22x410 over under over-under, broken down in my WW2 army surplus backpack. We'd hunt for a couple of hours and then go to school. My shotgun would be in my locker all day (broken down), along with a bunch of dead doves. But... those days are long gone. The thought of ever pointing my gun at another person NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. But that was then, and this is now...

NOW I wish that all guns of every kind was illegal, I wish there were no guns... or gunpowder, or bullets.

I think that the real story of handgun ownership is probably a pretty grim statistic. (Mandela Guard Kills HimSelf) I think they are probably the 3rd or 4th cause of the owner's death (not 1 in 3 or 4, but perhaps 1 in 15 owners kills them self). Probably 1 in 10 or 15 of ALL gun owners killed a family member, and 1 in a hundred killed a neighbor. And then there are the accidental shootings...

I'm living in the West again... the place is [censored] armed trust me. There is always a sad alcohol, or meth fueled stupid death with a handgun in the news, plus all the regular daily shootings. More guns just can't be the answer.

</div></div> Well nobody is kicking off your door and shoot you in bed either. Nobody is sticking guns in your face rob you and then kill you. Guns don't have to be always used even if it is available, but it should be legally available when it is needed. No citizen should be murdered because the government colluded with others to leave them vulnerable so that the others can have complete control of their lives. </div></div>
I agree of course... no one should be murdered. Governments first duty is to protect it's citizens. Jamaica has failed miserably at this duty.

However, I believe that owning a gun is too dangerous for most people, especially if the weapon is a handgun, and the purpose is protection.

In Jamaica just owning a gun is reason for you to be marked and robbed of it.

But my bigger point is that being proficient with a handgun takes years. It takes living with other armed people. And yet a gun owner can be totally competent with their weapon, and still an intense personal crisis may arise where the gun is misused.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.

I can respect your pro-gun position. I grew up with guns. I had 20/10 vison as a kid, and my father had me shooting bottle caps at 50 yards when I was ten. I used to go hunting for doves BEFORE school. Id ride on my bike with my friend Nick for a few miles before dawn outside of town, to a waterhole we knew about. Id carry my 22x410 over under over-under, broken down in my WW2 army surplus backpack. We'd hunt for a couple of hours and then go to school. My shotgun would be in my locker all day (broken down), along with a bunch of dead doves. But... those days are long gone. The thought of ever pointing my gun at another person NEVER CROSSED MY MIND. But that was then, and this is now...

NOW I wish that all guns of every kind was illegal, I wish there were no guns... or gunpowder, or bullets.

I think that the real story of handgun ownership is probably a pretty grim statistic. (Mandela Guard Kills HimSelf) I think they are probably the 3rd or 4th cause of the owner's death (not 1 in 3 or 4, but perhaps 1 in 15 owners kills them self). Probably 1 in 10 or 15 of ALL gun owners killed a family member, and 1 in a hundred killed a neighbor. And then there are the accidental shootings...

I'm living in the West again... the place is [censored] armed trust me. There is always a sad alcohol, or meth fueled stupid death with a handgun in the news, plus all the regular daily shootings. More guns just can't be the answer.

</div></div> Well nobody is kicking off your door and shoot you in bed either. Nobody is sticking guns in your face rob you and then kill you. Guns don't have to be always used even if it is available, but it should be legally available when it is needed. No citizen should be murdered because the government colluded with others to leave them vulnerable so that the others can have complete control of their lives. </div></div>
I agree of course... no one should be murdered. Governments first duty is to protect it's citizens. Jamaica has failed miserably at this duty.

However, I believe that owning a gun is too dangerous for most people, especially if the weapon is a handgun, and the purpose is protection.

In Jamaica just owning a gun is reason for you to be marked and robbed of it.

But my bigger point is that being proficient with a handgun takes years. It takes living with other armed people. And yet a gun owner can be totally competent with their weapon, and still an intense personal crisis may arise where the gun is misused. </div></div>It is not true that <span style="font-style: italic">&quot;In Jamaica just owning a gun is reason for you to be marked and robbed of it </span>&quot;.
The majority of people who own guns are not attacked for their guns. As a matte of fact the only situation where people are robbed or killed for their guns are when they are in the minority. Gun men do not do that in neighborhoods where legal gun ownership is very high. What I want to see is the density of legal gun ownership is high enough to create the situation where only in rare case are legal gun owners outnumbered by gun robbers. right now the only people who get robbed are those who live in or function in areas where they can be easily outnumbered by gun men. I know many areas in St Andrew where a gunman would not dare to go to rob a gun, unless it is a professional mob hit. and even in those cases they tens to follow the person to a point where he has no help from other gun owners. This is a case similar to a forest fire. We can only take down the fire with controlled burning exercise. No water will work and if it goes on like this for much longer, there won't be ant much longer for the majority of the population.
It is impossible for eliminate firearms in Jamaica. They can be manufactured and even the ammo, are being repacked in empty shells. i don't know how reliable or safe that is but they have been doing this for more than a decade ago. you saw the man,a senior citizen that admitted to manufacturing handguns for over 10 years. he got life in prison, but the equipment in many factories is being very productive in many ways.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.</div></div>
He says he don't care!

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Teens, youngsters to be granted user's perm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, I really wish you would just &quot;preview&quot; your responses before posting. I know you are in a hurry, but I think it would be respectful of you to us readers, and helpful to you in making your point clear.</div></div>
He says he don't care! </div></div> Oh you got the check??