Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may be a

[uswe]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

Denise Lewis, former Olympic Heptahlon Champion had a proper "six pack" much more profound than Semanyah's. Better than most men, an she was all woman.

[evanovitch]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

the crux of the matter is whether she has any testosterone...if she does, well den, she has male chromosone an has an advantage ovah di odda women....some people have dem development screwed so dat dem ha di outer vagina but no inner workings of a woman...we all stawt off female n den di genitals of di male develop r labia fi di oomanz...in har case, as in oddas, it could be a malfunction of sorts n u ha wat u ha now...di real issue is wedda she will test fi testostorone


who memba bak in the days before the sensitive tests dem ha now...the Russians had 2 'females' dat many ?ed as dem doing har, due to their 'mannish' outward appearances...once the new tests came about, both those russian 'women' disappeared from the sporting arena, iwd no explanation

[diabolical_Tanya]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

Although Semenya, 18, is noticeably muscular and angular for a woman, the people closest to her are in no doubt that she is female. So it may seem strange that it can take weeks for a handful of experts to decide whether someone is a man or woman – but that’s because gender is not always a clear-cut issue.

“The very term ‘gender verification’ suggests that we could get at the truth. A team of experts will find out, but gender is complex. The current coverage of Semenya’s case illustrates how troubling gender is in sport,” said Professor Kath Woodward of the Open University, who has written a book on gender in sport.

“Images draw upon stereotypes of what constitutes masculinity and femininity, through comportment and appearance, even when they necessarily have very different bodies from their female non-sporting counterparts,” Professor Woodward said.

The importance of gender verification in sport comes down to the perceived advantage of being a man. Males have between 40 and 60 times the amount of testosterone than females, and testosterone, the male sex hormone, is critical to building up muscle bulk and so providing the physical strength that can determine the outcome of a competitive event.

In the early 1960s, when the first regular gender verification was introduced in international sporting events by the IAAF, women were subjected to rather crude physical examinations of their private parts, a humiliating procedure that female athletes understandably resented.

Later on, during the Mexico City Olympic Games in 1968, the sporting bodies introduced a genetic test based on a smear taken from the mouth. The cells in the smear were analysed using a “sex chromatin” test to determine whether the person has the two XX chromosomes of a female, or the XY chromosomes of a male.

In addition to being less demeaning to women, it was also meant to deal with cases of ambiguous external genitalia. In some rare instances, men and women can suffer from a congenital condition that interferes with the normal development of their external sex organs.

The test, however, quickly fell out of favour, partly because of a shortage of labs that could carry it out properly. The test was also dogged by false positive and false negatives – in other words results that turned out to be wrong.

But an even bigger problem was the issue of women who were genetically male, having the XY chomosomes, but were in every other respects female because their bodies lacked a key protein that was able to recognise testosterone. These women produce large amounts of testosterone, but the hormone simply does not work.

The condition is known as “androgen insensitivity syndrome” and very often these women are unaware of it until they try to have children. About 1 in 20,000 women suffer from it, and although they look, feel and behave like women, a chromosome test alone would reveal that they are genetically male.

Sex determination in humans begins in the womb at an early stage of embryonic development. An egg normally carries one X chromosome while sperm carry either one X or one Y chromosome. When sperm and egg fuse, they form XX and XY embryos in a roughly 50:50 ratio.

During the first weeks of development, the male and female embryos are anatomically indistinguishable with primitive gonads – the male and female organs – beginning to develop in the sixth week of gestation. At this point they are considered to be “bipotential”, in other words they can go on to become either female ovaries or male testes.

What determines the eventual developmental path is the presence of the sex-determining gene on the male chromosome, called SRY. When this gene is present, the embryo becomes male, when it is not, it becomes female. In a way all embryos are by default female, and it is only when the SRY gene kicks in that a “female” embryo actually becomes male.

Part of the battery of laboratory tests that Semenya will now have to undertake is likely to be a test for the presence of the SRY gene. Her blood will also be tested for testosterone and her cells analysed for whether she bears the usual pattern of XX chromosomes for a woman.

But the IAAF has said that gender verification will not be done solely on such laboratory-based tests. A psychological profile is also likely to be done to determine whether she “feels” herself in her own mind to be a woman.

The IAAF’s policy on gender verification also states that there are medical conditions where people should be allowed to compete even when there are questions about their gender. Conditions such as androgen insensitivity syndrome and gonadal dysgenesis – when the gonads fail to develop or are surgically removed – are allowed because they confer no advantage over other female competitors.

Even sex-change men who become women can compete provided a period of time has elapsed since the operation, especially if carried out before puberty. It is all part of the realisation that being a man or a woman is not always clear cut.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...ma-1775020.html

[evanovitch]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

mi glad u post dat T wich bak up weh mi juss seh....cause mi did a wait fi Dr D fi come challenge mi statement....

[diabolical_Tanya]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mi glad u post dat T wich bak up weh mi juss seh....cause mi did a wait fi Dr D fi come challenge mi statement.... </div></div> you know I am quite surprised he has not weighed in his expert opinion on the mattter yet

[CeaBee]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A psychological profile is also likely to be done to determine whether she “feels” herself in her own mind to be a woman.
</div></div>

so if she feel herself to be a woman (as she prob does- as that is how she was raised) and the genetic tests say otherwise then what?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

Well I am not challenm]mnging you. i am simply stating that everybody has some testerone in their body. male simplin hav emuch grereater amounts. If a woman has leves above acceptable as normal for female she will be disqualified as a female competitor. irrespective of her anatomical appearance. since anatomican features are developed at an earler state, than when she is presenting now. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mi glad u post dat T wich bak up weh mi juss seh....cause mi did a wait fi Dr D fi come challenge mi statement.... </div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

the word contraversy is what kept me out.. Next tim eI must be more inquisitive.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Diabolical_Tanya</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mi glad u post dat T wich bak up weh mi juss seh....cause mi did a wait fi Dr D fi come challenge mi statement.... </div></div> you know I am quite surprised he has not weighed in his expert opinion on the mattter yet </div></div>

[Blackstar*]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UsainUswe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Denise Lewis, former Olympic Heptahlon Champion had a proper &quot;six pack&quot; much more profound than Semanyah's. Better than most men, an she was all woman.</span> </div></div>I have seen women athlete's with 6-packs but they usually have a smaller waist or very well-rounded hips. Poor Caster Semanyah has neither.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 8pt">Then again, Serena (especially) and Venus get grief about their femininity too.</span></span>

[skins]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _______</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same thing I say Ripton </div></div>


It may not be fat but it seems to be there

[skins]

Re: Gender Contraversy at the Worlds....Skelly girlfren may

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actually, i think the fit of the suit at the crotch supports the idea of the person being male. usually the build of a woman's pelvic area means that garments fit quite closely in the crotch area, and i'm seeing different here.
</div></div>
some women not all

[Marilyn]

Is she or ain't she?

You guys see the controversey over this female track star?

[diabolical_Tanya]

Re: Is she or ain't she?

lawks MsM yu late bad

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Is she or ain't she?

I think she is a woman. Hey people don't all fall exactly within th escope of what is considered ideally woman or man. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marilyn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys see the controversey over this female track star?

</div></div>

[skins]

Re: Is she or ain't she?