Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

**Dr.Dudd** · 01-07-2010, 02:34 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

So he attacked you first!!
OK and you retaliated by making a baseless attack?
I mean who does that reaction damage?
If your reaction make you look petty, it really is better not to react at all.
All I can say is that your reaction seem more of a questioning of the veracity of the Gleaner's editorial capacity.
It also questions the sanity of the citizens that read this story that is still on the records almost 4 years.
Yet they find no basis to oppose it's veracity. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I notice that Human chose to attack you instead of the gleaner that published that story.
The story is almost 3 years old.
yet he is the first one to recognize that it is based on an error.[quote=Panajar] </div></div>

You really should get your head examined. He attacked me first, saying he didn't expect a different response, and he has continued to do so instead of providing info I requested. I don't mind throwing a jab or two myself, but my posts on this board are substantially issues related. So to attack me first personally, then claim that he is being attacked by me, strikes me as perverse.
</div></div>

**Dyoll_73** · 01-07-2010, 04:03 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So he attacked you first!!
OK and you retaliated by making a baseless attack?
I mean who does that reaction damage?
If your reaction make you look petty, it really is better not to react at all.
All I can say is that your reaction seem more of a questioning of the veracity of the Gleaner's editorial capacity.
It also questions the sanity of the citizens that read this story that is still on the records almost 4 years.
Yet they find no basis to oppose it's veracity.
</div></div>

LOL!

Please show me where I made an attack on Panajar?

I did say that you, however, should have your head examined and often either veer way off-course, resort to intellectual dishonesty, or fail in basic comprehension skills. I'm prepared to stand by this.

I don't read the online Gleaner every single day, and it's the first time I have read this story. You wouldn't be suggesting that questions about an article cannot be raised simply because it is three years old? A lot more with greater import has gone unnoticed or accepted by even more reputable sources.

**Dr.Dudd** · 01-07-2010, 04:17 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

It is not our fault that you decide to discuss topics that you never read.
and there is a difference between the raising of a question and stating adamantly that you know it to be untrue.
It is also different if you had point your query to the source.
also the subsequent questions you posed to Panyjar, seem misdirected to me.
as for the statements you made of your opinion of me?/
i just give them the attention they justify.
I am sure you notice it.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So he attacked you first!!
OK and you retaliated by making a baseless attack?
I mean who does that reaction damage?
If your reaction make you look petty, it really is better not to react at all.
All I can say is that your reaction seem more of a questioning of the veracity of the Gleaner's editorial capacity.
It also questions the sanity of the citizens that read this story that is still on the records almost 4 years.
Yet they find no basis to oppose it's veracity.
</div></div>

LOL!

Please show me where I made an attack on Panajar?

I did say that you, however, should have your head examined and often either veer way off-course, resort to intellectual dishonesty, or fail in basic comprehension skills. I'm prepared to stand by this.

I don't read the online Gleaner every single day, and it's the first time I have read this story. You wouldn't be suggesting that questions about an article cannot be raised simply because it is three years old? A lot more with greater import has gone unnoticed or accepted by even more reputable sources. </div></div>

**Panajar** · 01-07-2010, 04:40 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont all the details as to why the financial sector collapsed in the 90s ,but this i can tell you,Sigma Unit Trust, owned by the white Matalons, was a relatively MINOR player in the domestic financial sector. Not only has it survived however, but it has been recently allowed to merge with the much smaller Manufacturers Merchant owned by the Melhados.Mergers between unit trusts and merchant banks were previously held by the Minister of Finance to be pernicious, and a reason for his earlier interventions in the financial sector through FINSAC. So why was the rules changed for these guy? <span style="font-weight: bold">Tom drunk but tom no fool. </span> </div></div>

Again: Don Crawford's bank collapsed because ..." </div></div>

I did not say Don Crawford bank collapsed because he was black,what i am saying is, the FIC went after his assets with a vengeance and gave him little or no opportunity to restructure his operations.At the same time they gave the Matalons and Melhados every opportunity to merge and restructure their operations .A wonda why? dont bother answer this question ,i already know THE ANSWA, why he wasn't given the opportunity to wheel and come again.

**Dyoll_73** · 01-07-2010, 05:30 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is not our fault that you decide to discuss topics that you never read.</div></div>

What a silly thing to say. I read the article from the link provided and then I made a comment.

Also, wasn't Don Crawford, a black Jamaican, given a license to start his bank, Century National Bank? When did Delroy Lindsay's Corporate Group (Delroy Lindsay, a black Jamaican) gain control of Worker's Bank? In 1991 when it was privatized. His new entity wasn't licensed? And when Elon Beckford left JCB to start Horizon Merchant Bank, he didn't have a license? The claim was that no license was given to black Jamaicans. It's untrue.

The article referenced by Panajar was not a Gleaner editorial, but something written by someone else (the writer's name wasn't given) so we know right away that's not the position of the Gleaner. Also, the claim that it was impossible for a black Jamaican to get a bank license was not put in quotes to show that those were the book author's (Ferguson's) actual words. The writer only said that Ferguson said so. This "respectable" paper, as you call it (or maybe you were being sarcastic), published a badly written article.

In any case, Panajar has endorsed this article and we can safely conclude that he agrees with the claim (that no black Jamaicans could get bank licenses) and therefore he is fair game. He then used that article to bolster his claim of a racist conspiracy against blacks where bank ownership is concerned.

Panajar should also be able to provide info on the number of black Jamaicans who sought bank licenses, the number of whom were denied such, and the reasons. You don't need to chime in here; let Panajar answer. He has never shied away before.

**Dr.Dudd** · 01-07-2010, 05:38 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

OK Go on the JLP site you may see Mr Seaga credited with the changing of the laws to make that possible ans that law was changed in 1968.
But although the law was changed, no black group or person could get the clearance to get a banking licenses. Don Crawford was fronting for people who were not black. it is because of theri intrest in the bank whey he got it.
Jamaica citizens bank, was 51% owned, by a Georgia Bank. So you need to read more and you will be in a position to discuss at this level.
Otherwise it will seem like <span style="font-weight: bold">incoherent ramblings to you</span>

**Dyoll_73** · 01-07-2010, 06:14 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not say Don Crawford bank collapsed because he was black,what i am saying is, the FIC went after his assets with a vengeance and gave him little or no opportunity to restructure his operations.At the same time they gave the Matalons and Melhados every opportunity to merge and restructure their operations .A wonda why? dont bother answer this question ,i already know THE ANSWA, why he wasn't given the opportunity to wheel and come again. </div></div>

And what was that, Panajar? Say it! Don't be afraid!

I did not say that you said that Crawford's bank collapsed because he was black. Notice that I gave you the opportunity to say exactly what you mean.

You got your facts wrong. The Matalon controlled Sigma Unit Trust did not acquire Manufacturers Merchant Bank (MMB) as you claimed; rather it was the other way around. Funny isn't it? MMB, co-owned by a black Jamaican, Cliff Cameron, who partnered with O. K. Melhado, took over control of Sigma.

And when was the merger approved, Panajar? In 2001 by Comrade finance minister, Omar Davis, a black man. The Melhados and the Matalons are all comrades, with the unit trust of one group of comrades being taken over by another comrade, approved by another comrade during "black man time."

I know it's hard for you to let the facts interfere with a good story.

What should we gather from what you posted earlier?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">watch your back,they will be coming for you. dam shame that black people in their own country just starting to get a real piece of the pie,yet nuff people on and off this board pretend that Jamaica does not have economic racism .</div></div>

So what is it?

**Panajar** · 01-07-2010, 06:43 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

And what was that, Panajar? Say it! Don't be afraid!

I did not say that you said that Crawford's bank collapsed because he was black. Notice that I gave you the opportunity to say exactly what you mean.

You got your facts wrong. The Matalon controlled Sigma Unit Trust did not acquire Manufacturers Merchant Bank (MMB) as you claimed; rather it was the other way around. Funny isn't it? MMB, co-owned by a black Jamaican, Cliff Cameron, who partnered with O. K. Melhado, took over control of Sigma.

And when was the merger approved, Panajar? In 2001 by Comrade finance minister, Omar Davis, a black man. The Melhados and the Matalons are all comrades, with the unit trust of one group of comrades being taken over by another comrade, approved by another comrade during "black man time."

I know it's hard for you to let the facts interfere with a good story.

What should we gather from what you posted earlier?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">watch your back,they will be coming for you. dam shame that black people in their own country just starting to get a real piece of the pie,yet nuff people on and off this board pretend that Jamaica does not have economic racism .</div></div>

So what is it? </div></div>

Yes the merger was approved by the pnp under omar ,what does that prove? Both political parties are controlled and financed by the real owners of Jamaica.The only time there was a genuine effort to get the country from under their thumbs was under Michael Manley in the 70s, unfortunately for the majority of Jamaican Manley did not succeed.Both parties are still under their control.<span style="font-weight: bold">THERE WAS A SYING IN JAMAICA" PNP TIME ,JLP TIME ,STILL MATTA-LAND TIME</span>".

To add to my point ,Cameron and Melhado went into the sugar business with the McConnells ,<span style="font-weight: bold">AND GUESS WHAT CAMERON WAS THE ONLY ONE that minister Omar choose to publicly chastise</span> because he knew better not to offend the real rulers.When the venture failed the McConnells came out with most of their money ,while Cameron took the biggest lost.

**evanovitch** · 01-07-2010, 06:46 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get the country from under their thumbs was under Michael Manley in the 70s, </div></div>

an Minister Matalon was gwine to help him dweet to , don't r did Joshua exclude him from certain info incase him warn him fellow 21ites

**Dyoll_73** · 01-07-2010, 06:53 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaica citizens bank, was 51% owned, by a Georgia Bank. So you need to read more and you will be in a position to discuss at this level.
Otherwise it will seem like <span style="font-weight: bold">incoherent ramblings to you</span> </div></div>

LOL! You're an amusing character.

Well, this Georgian bank you mentioned never owned controlling interest in Citizens Bank, or 51% as you claimed, but 49%, and eventually they sold their shares to Jamaican interests. You should do better than that.

You still hold on to the position that Jamaica's blacks were systematically denied banking licenses. There's no point convincing you otherwise of that, or anything else, I see.

**Panajar** · 01-07-2010, 07:00 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get the country from under their thumbs was under Michael Manley in the 70s, </div></div>

an Minister Matalon was gwine to help him dweet to , don't r did Joshua exclude him from certain info incase him warn him fellow 21ites </div></div>

yu ova analyzing , notice me sey attempt ,and did not succeed the two operative words

**evanovitch** · 01-07-2010, 07:02 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get the country from under their thumbs was under Michael Manley in the 70s, </div></div>

an Minister Matalon was gwine to help him dweet to , don't r did Joshua exclude him from certain info incase him warn him fellow 21ites </div></div>

yu ova analyzing , notice me sey attempt ,and did not succeed the two operative words </div></div>

but wid his having Matalon in his Cabinet, ur premise of his tryiing to eliminate the 21 is moot...u cyan include one an still be thought of as trying to get rid of them...

**Dr.Dudd** · 01-07-2010, 07:13 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

Do you know that I bought minority shares in a company, but actually owned almost 100% of it?. The majority of the shareholders,was secured by me and I had first call on them.The other major shareholder in Jamaica citizens bank was is the same people who owned and still do the major block of palace Amusement. I still maintain that Georgia citizens and Southern was the majority owners. and black were paper owners in it.
As for the black ownership. You couldn't convince me. since I am aware that by law black Jamaicans could not invest in anything. Did you know that ther was a Government savings bank in Jamaica. this was operated by the colonial government. It was late taken over by the local government after the so called independence. Anyway. did you realize that it was forbidden to invest the savings in any loans to black Jamaicans?
did you know that the savings were invested in South Africa? Did you know that citizens bank savers, got no measurable returns.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaica citizens bank, was 51% owned, by a Georgia Bank. So you need to read more and you will be in a position to discuss at this level.
Otherwise it will seem like <span style="font-weight: bold">incoherent ramblings to you</span> </div></div>

LOL! You're an amusing character.

Well, this Georgian bank you mentioned never owned controlling interest in Citizens Bank, or 51% as you claimed, but 49%, and eventually they sold their shares to Jamaican interests. You should do better than that.

You still hold on to the position that Jamaica's blacks were systematically denied banking licenses. There's no point convincing you otherwise of that, or anything else, I see. </div></div>

**evanovitch** · 01-07-2010, 07:18 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you know that I bought minority shares in a company, but actually owned almost 100% of it?. The majority of the shareholders,was secured by me and I had first call on them. </div></div>

n yet u still find time to iggle on Jams.com..bwoy wid all the companies and biznin dat me read whe u seh u own, ha interest in , u suppose to be up dere wid Michael CHin...no true... u do doctoring as a hobby dont..me know two doctors a yaad who claim dat...one love to sing n him really ha a band , di odda love to drag race...fi real

**Dr.Dudd** · 01-07-2010, 07:21 PM

Re: Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

The only thing ownership gurantees is share in the loss of the object. It gurantees nothimg else.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you know that I bought minority shares in a company, but actually owned almost 100% of it?. The majority of the shareholders,was secured by me and I had first call on them. </div></div>

n yet u still find time to iggle on Jams.com..bwoy wid all the companies and biznin dat me read whe u seh u own, ha interest in , u suppose to be up dere wid Michael CHin...no true... u do doctoring as a hobby dont..me know two doctors a yaad who claim dat...one love to sing n him really ha a band , di odda love to drag race...fi real </div></div>

Black Jamaicans in the ownership class

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