evolutionary theory wrang footprints

[Derek]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

The truth is:

<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">ME, YOU, THE SCIENTIST AND THE PRIEST JUST DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH</span></span>.

[jah_yout]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> did 40 million years ago actually exist? </div></div>

thats deep man;

the universe is so vast man comprehends but a small amount...the thing is why do they make it into a mutually exclusive thing??

there is no doubt that species can change over time &amp; that the splitting of the continents caused variation in formerly identical types;
but some of these scientists act like their theories are proven fact; evolution is just a theory, just as creationism is; and they are not mutually exclusive!
who says life could not have been CREATED and then EVOLVED...
everything evolves...it does not mean humans were once monkeys; my own common sense &amp; feelings rejects this theory;
my mind says there is an intelligent formation- an order to all this, sometimes referred to as 'god'; 'the creator'; 'the almighty'; 'most high'; 'lord'; 'savior'; 'mother nature' ;
these guys made it into creationism vs. evolution to dumb down the population &amp; dissuade objective thinking &amp; deeper analysis;

[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakkgiant</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
that's why you are clearly confused. all the footprints do is shift a timeline. that's it.

evolution is a fact, like gravity is a fact. there is no competing theory to explain the effects of gravity- and yet, our understanding of how gravity works changes as new information is discovered and more is understood about the universe and how it works.

but gravity is still a fact. it's proved by dropping something or trying to jump off the earth. just like evolution is proven when examining speciation, or retroviral damage in the gene code, or making medicine.

creation as you are referring to it is not a theory because it can not be tested, nor can it be applied with testable results. you can substitute the cookie monster for god, and come up with the same results. why not zeuss instead of yahweh or jah. why not wankantanka. but if you substitute the bible say, or the egyptian book of coming forth, for polio vaccines, you get dead people in one case and live people in the other.

spend some time with the nova video. it will explain it and you'll see why what you are saying is incorrect. </div></div>

dat rite itt shift da time line 18 million ears ann even dough theory affii bee change dem still chattinn bout facts

science peeps luv fii gawn like dem assumptshan ar facts even dough den keep changinn ann revisinn dem theory. itt iss bout fear aff de unknown ann science refusinn too acknowledge dat scienctifixx facts is limited bye oww science peeps choose too define.

sah itt awl goo bakk too da beginninn aff thyme ann god </div></div>

I don't know what is so difficult about this really, unless you are purposefully being obtuse.

The theory is that over time, there is a change in the alleles of a group. This change over time- which is proven in DNA research and is observable- creates speciation.

That is evolution. If a new discovery forces a shift in the understanding of *when* something evolved or how- the theory is still the same, although there are new facts to consider the results and predictions etc. which the theory states.

Consider it this way- 97 octane gas fuels a vehicle. So does 93. The fact that 93 also burns in an engine's piston chamber in no way shape or form changes the fact that a combustion engine burns gasoline. If all you had was 97, and didnt know that 93 also worked, but then found out, does that change the theory that combustion engines burn gas? No it doesn't. All it does is increase your knowledge of gas.

So it is with evolution. Just because a set of 18 million year old footprints was discovered, doesn't change the fact that the footprints are only there because that creature evolved feet somewhere down the line of it's ancestors.

New discoveries and new facts are always happening, but very often they happen BECAUSE of the theory itself, or law.

Another thing you guys are not considering is that knowledge is cumulative. While the earth was though to be flat, plenty of seafaring cultures did not think that. It took converging observations of independent inquiry to end the superstition.

It's completely different. Nobody had facts that told them the earth was flat, they had beliefs. You can make the analogy however, that people who believed the earth to be flat, are exactly like the people who think the earth is only 6,000 years old and snakes talk and Adam and Eve messed up in the garden.

[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> did 40 million years ago actually exist? </div></div>

thats deep man;

the universe is so vast man comprehends but a small amount...the thing is why do they make it into a mutually exclusive thing??

there is no doubt that species can change over time &amp; that the splitting of the continents caused variation in formerly identical types;
but some of these scientists act like their theories are proven fact; evolution is just a theory, just as creationism is; and they are not mutually exclusive!
who says life could not have been CREATED and then EVOLVED...
everything evolves...it does not mean humans were once monkeys; my own common sense &amp; feelings rejects this theory;
my mind says there is an intelligent formation- an order to all this, sometimes referred to as 'god'; 'the creator'; 'the almighty'; 'most high'; 'lord'; 'savior'; 'mother nature' ;
these guys made it into creationism vs. evolution to dumb down the population &amp; dissuade objective thinking &amp; deeper analysis; </div></div>

come now jah yute! evolution does NOT say that man descends from monkey. if anything is dumbing down the population it is creationism. you can do nothing with it. and yet with evolution, you can heal entire populations of disease, you can build...I mean the effects of the theory of evolution being true are staggering and all around us.

what it predicts is that man *and* monkey share common ancestry- which means way back in our distant past our lines diverged into man and ape.

this is indeed a fact. it is proven by multiple means, most damning -pardon the pun- is that of genetic damage which man shares with the various great apes.

there is only ONE possible explanation- that is that we inherit this damage from a common ancestor. there is only ONE way that damage could appear in both our genetic codes.

[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

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[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

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[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

pt 3
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[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but some of these scientists act like their theories are proven fact; evolution is just a theory, just as creationism is; and they are not mutually exclusive!
</div></div>

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[rufian]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..


By the way, did 40 million years ago actually exist? </div></div>
from the time you say it

[Derek]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

monk, I could post four debunking evolution videos, but I can't be bothered.

[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

no you couldn't do that at all, because any such video you could find, would be wrong for reasons outlined above. There is not several answers to the question, there is only one. that's what you aren't getting. watch the NOVA special.

Believe me, if anyone at anytime could have proved that evolution was wrong, it would have been then.

You are alive, right now, because evolution is true. because what we have learned about evolution, we can actually apply towards actually doing things, in the real world, now. I'd say 90 to 99% of our medical advances in fighting disease, are due to evolution being right.

what video can you post to refute that. not a single one. because we have used evolution to solve the problems of major diseases, and more fall every day. so don't allow yourself to be fooled.

I can post a video about how santa can come down a chimney. that means nothing as to it's validity.

For you to disprove evolution, you would win a nobel prize. You would turn the entire scientific community on it's ear. Skyscrapers would fall to the ground. Entire crop systems would fail and die in the field.

You need to really, really, really watch these preceding vids and understand them, and what they are saying.

For your own good, and the good of people around you.

If you were wrongly accused of a crime, and DNA evidence exonerated you, you would in a heartbeat *believe* in evolution. All the people being freed now from death row or slightly worse due to advances in DNA- advances made because of evolution being fact- certainly prove it is real. You do accept DNA evidence right?

Or would you ask the court to throw out the evidence because it's just a 'theory' and there are videos on youtube which, in your eyes presently, disprove evolution.

Likewise, if you suffered from some disease, say polio, or some mortal bacterial infection, and you could be saved by the knowledge we have gained because we could apply the science behind evolution to saving you, would you decline the treatment because a video on youtube ignorantly told you evolution was 'just a theory.' No you would not, and it's simply silly to suggest you would. But that is the exact equivalent of what you are telling me.

You would take the anti-biotic and probably not thing twice about how it was even developed- but odds are some aspect of evolutionary biology was involved. In fact, it was *certainly* involved.

News reports are legion of people who do not believe in evolution and who use, let's say, religion, to 'cure' themselves or their loved ones. Drive out the demon that causes epilepsy or whatever. Work bush medicine and obeah. The outcomes are often horrendous. I had a bredren who refused medical care and took a bush tea to save his leg which was clearly gangrenous. he couldn't be told about a real doctor. the fool stepped on a mere nail and it bore a hole in his foot. not even a deep one. now he is dead over something seriously dumb. I'll avoid the macabre joke, but that is the fact of the matter. To have lived, all he needed was some anti-biotics. He threw his life away, and the superstitious fools around him let him. Then they wailed at his deadyard like a herd of cows.

so let's not be silly, or purposefully obtuse, for no reason.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">monk, I could post four debunking evolution videos, but I can't be bothered. </div></div>
But do you believe that evolution is a hoax... a conspiracy? ... an unprovable theory?

[Derek]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no you couldn't do that at all, because any such video you could find, would be wrong for reasons outlined above. There is not several answers to the question, there is only one. that's what you aren't getting. watch the NOVA special.

Believe me, if anyone at anytime could have proved that evolution was wrong, it would have been then.

You are alive, right now, because evolution is true. because what we have learned about evolution, we can actually apply towards actually doing things, in the real world, now. I'd say 90 to 99% of our medical advances in fighting disease, are due to evolution being right.

what video can you post to refute that. not a single one. because we have used evolution to solve the problems of major diseases, and more fall every day. so don't allow yourself to be fooled.

I can post a video about how santa can come down a chimney. that means nothing as to it's validity.

For you to disprove evolution, you would win a nobel prize. You would turn the entire scientific community on it's ear. Skyscrapers would fall to the ground. Entire crop systems would fail and die in the field.

You need to really, really, really watch these preceding vids and understand them, and what they are saying.

For your own good, and the good of people around you.

If you were wrongly accused of a crime, and DNA evidence exonerated you, you would in a heartbeat *believe* in evolution. All the people being freed now from death row or slightly worse due to advances in DNA- advances made because of evolution being fact- certainly prove it is real. You do accept DNA evidence right?

Or would you ask the court to throw out the evidence because it's just a 'theory' and there are videos on youtube which, in your eyes presently, disprove evolution.

Likewise, if you suffered from some disease, say polio, or some mortal bacterial infection, and you could be saved by the knowledge we have gained because we could apply the science behind evolution to saving you, would you decline the treatment because a video on youtube ignorantly told you evolution was 'just a theory.' No you would not, and it's simply silly to suggest you would. But that is the exact equivalent of what you are telling me.

You would take the anti-biotic and probably not thing twice about how it was even developed- but odds are some aspect of evolutionary biology was involved. In fact, it was *certainly* involved.

News reports are legion of people who do not believe in evolution and who use, let's say, religion, to 'cure' themselves or their loved ones. Drive out the demon that causes epilepsy or whatever. Work bush medicine and obeah. The outcomes are often horrendous. I had a bredren who refused medical care and took a bush tea to save his leg which was clearly gangrenous. he couldn't be told about a real doctor. the fool stepped on a mere nail and it bore a hole in his foot. not even a deep one. now he is dead over something seriously dumb. I'll avoid the macabre joke, but that is the fact of the matter. To have lived, all he needed was some anti-biotics. He threw his life away, and the superstitious fools around him let him. Then they wailed at his deadyard like a herd of cows.

so let's not be silly, or purposefully obtuse, for no reason. </div></div>
<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">monk, if we DID evolve, did we evolve from something created, or did we evolve from nothing?</span></span>
Keep your answer short and intelligible, please.

[rudemonk]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">monk, if we DID evolve, did we evolve from something created, or did we evolve from nothing?</span></span>
Keep your answer short and intelligible, please. </div></div>

we DID evolve. the evidence in our genome alone proves this, irrefutably. we, as well as apes, evolved from a common ancestor we shared with our primate relatives. we see by the same genetic evidence which, say, proves paternity, or the guilt or innocence of crimes, that we as well as all other organisms belong in a gigantic tree of life. similarities and differentiation from and between other organisms is predicted and readily observed. if evolution were NOT true, we would not expect to see this.

It is either accept this reality, or throw out EVERYTHING we know is true that has developed because of this scientific understanding. And the placement in time of some footprints does not accomplish that epic feat.

This fact is simply inescapable.

Can you define 'created' and what you mean by 'nothing.' Because there is only one mode of thinking which claims everything came from nothing, and that is in the Bible and other creation myths.

In the classical sense of the word, so far, there is no evidence any creator beyond observable natural processes is needed to explain the speciation of life.

Yet it must be said that science makes no prediction on the possibility of there being a God/Creator. Science must accept the possibility exists of such a being, however unlikely it might seem once people start defining this being. As soon as any claim is made on such a being's behalf, that is when the problems start.

At the most basic level, the God of the Bible, as he is portrayed therein, is not possible, as the truth claims made for that God are not reconcilable with what is easily observed. Consider that most people have literally NO problem dismissing entire pantheons of gods and goddesses who once clearly existed in our near past. Yet those gods and goddesses were all believed in according to the same quality of truth claims in which &quot;God&quot; now exists. All most people have managed to do, is substitute many gods for one. And his kid. And ghost.

The actual mechanism which caused the origin of life yet remains a mystery, although the same question of everything coming from 'nothing' is actually more fatal to any religious claim than to evolution, because in evolution there is not a concept of 'nothing.'

the problem with creation in that regard is that it claims a creator is needed. hence, a created creator is also needed.

anyway, we must be careful here, because these issues are often conflated when they really have nothing to do with each other- the theory of evolution does not deal with the origin of life- it only deals with what happened after life began, and explains why we see the abundance of different forms of life and how that happened. the origin of life is called Abiogenesis.

And speaking to that it has been observed that various amino acids and other organic compounds do tend to cluster and spontaneously combine into the building blocks of life, due to their nature. a lot of work is now being done in this field and many papers published with repeatable findings.

I truly appreciate you entertaining the conversation and respect your asking questions rather than letting it end. I'm very confident that you will soon see the position you formerly adopted is not logical once all the facts are digested, nor supportable by the available evidence we have to look at.

[Derek]

Re: evolutionary theory wrang footprints

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: monk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">monk, if we DID evolve, did we evolve from something created, or did we evolve from nothing?</span></span>
Keep your answer short and intelligible, please. </div></div>

we DID evolve. </div></div>
Did we evolve from something created, or did we evolve from nothing?