Jamaican Patois

[Xavier]

Re: Jamaican Patois

Here we go again...There are two articles this month on Jamaicans.com on this topic. One is my change of heart as I now see it as language. The other is an interview with the Professor Hubert Devonish an advocate for patois as a language who has created a language system for patois.

Yesterday I got an email from Queen Quet the Chieftess of the Gullah/Geechee Nation in the US (many of you know who they are). Every word she used in the email was "patois". I was a little shocked how well she wrote it. It was like seeing a board post.

PS: As I mentioned before I do not advocate replacing English as the launch we teach in schools.

[evanovitch]

Re: Jamaican Patois

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go again...There are two articles this month on Jamaicans.com on this topic. One is my change of heart as I now see it as language. The other is an interview with the Professor Hubert Devonish an advocate for patois as a language who has created a language system for patois.

Yesterday I got an email from Queen Quet the Chieftess of the Gullah/Geechee Nation in the US (many of you know who they are). Every word she used in the email was &quot;patois&quot;. I was a little shocked how well she wrote it. It was like seeing a board post.

PS: As I mentioned before I do not advocate replacing English as the launch we teach in schools.




</div></div>

i have mentioned on her before dat the geechies sound like us...i have been asked if i was a geechie nuff time...dem diet r some ways of cooking is very similar to us, Red bean n rice being one....the first time i set down in Baton Rouge during mi touring days i went up to a complete stranger n asked him to speak since i had been told dat we sound alike...the look on his face was comical

also theat island Cumberland, is full of them...i visited juss to see wat we had in common...their fight to maintain their ownership of the land is one dat we should support ..at least i support it

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Jamaican Patois

Since I has studied how the easy replace the better.
I would never suggest that patwa is even recognized in schools.
If at present wher the stipulation is that the children should be taught in English.
yet we have such poor command of English generally.
Can you imagine if it was allowed to be taught alongside English??
It wiould result just as it did in Haiti.

before the70's all educated Haitians was able to speak French. After The introduce creole ans an alternative language.
They did not officially replace french.
But they can't speak French anymore.
As a result it is very difficult for an educated haitian to compete abroad with there peers.
One reason is that not much knowledge is recorded in creole. So if Jamaican s get the opportunity, they will completely ignore English. and then ther education will be limited to that which is available in patwa. Ther are the lot that is promoting thi change.
Since they will benefit from translation of articles and books.
the country will brevert to the stage of Haiti in only a few years.
with educated people withtheir education limited to the few hundred texts in their language..
And not being able to even use the phone if they go abroad.
They can't watch cable,no Internet,i mean completely isolated. That would be a shame.
I Would like to see them change in Haiti and teach the children in either English or Spanish.
i would like to See that happen real soon.
they are Hispanics after all. they should speak Spanish. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go again...There are two articles this month on Jamaicans.com on this topic. One is my change of heart as I now see it as language. The other is an interview with the Professor Hubert Devonish an advocate for patois as a language who has created a language system for patois.

Yesterday I got an email from Queen Quet the Chieftess of the Gullah/Geechee Nation in the US (many of you know who they are). Every word she used in the email was &quot;patois&quot;. I was a little shocked how well she wrote it. It was like seeing a board post.

PS: As I mentioned before I do not advocate replacing English as the launch we teach in schools.




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[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Jamaican Patois

Is over there The <span style="text-decoration: line-through">blacl</span> coconut supreme court justice is from.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go again...There are two articles this month on Jamaicans.com on this topic. One is my change of heart as I now see it as language. The other is an interview with the Professor Hubert Devonish an advocate for patois as a language who has created a language system for patois.

Yesterday I got an email from Queen Quet the Chieftess of the Gullah/Geechee Nation in the US (many of you know who they are). Every word she used in the email was &quot;patois&quot;. I was a little shocked how well she wrote it. It was like seeing a board post.

PS: As I mentioned before I do not advocate replacing English as the launch we teach in schools.




</div></div>

i have mentioned on her before dat the geechies sound like us...i have been asked if i was a geechie nuff time...dem diet r some ways of cooking is very similar to us, Red bean n rice being one....the first time i set down in Baton Rouge during mi touring days i went up to a complete stranger n asked him to speak since i had been told dat we sound alike...the look on his face was comical

also theat island Cumberland, is full of them...i visited juss to see wat we had in common...their fight to maintain their ownership of the land is one dat we should support ..at least i support it </div></div>

[H_O]

Re: Jamaican Patois

Dr Dudd--while I agree with certain statements made, how do you figure they should be Spanish?
That would be like going to Argentina and telling them there German

And the Haitians go to Quebec when they come to Canada and the Quebecers HATE THEM

[Wendy]

Re: Jamaican Patois

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here we go again...There are two articles this month on Jamaicans.com on this topic. One is my change of heart as I now see it as language. The other is an interview with the Professor Hubert Devonish an advocate for patois as a language who has created a language system for patois.

Yesterday I got an email from Queen Quet the Chieftess of the Gullah/Geechee Nation in the US (many of you know who they are). Every word she used in the email was &quot;patois&quot;. I was a little shocked how well she wrote it. It was like seeing a board post.

PS: As I mentioned before I do not advocate replacing English as the launch we teach in schools.

</div></div>


Xavier,

I read your article with keen interest but you have not convinced me to believe Patois is a language. I still maintain that it is fragmented English. If that be the case – throw in cockny (sp) as a language while we are it.

Jamaican patois continues to be considered an unacceptable official language and if it were to be adopted as official - it would have to be used for matters of history, state, politics and any other form of language communication.

Can you imagine the possibility of traffic signs reading &quot;nuh park yah soh&quot; or &quot;Ongle one way&quot;. ..Or the doors of Banks saying “Wi open 9 am and shet dung at 5 pm”

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Jamaican Patois

If they understand Spanish their level of education would be easily advanced.

Since all their neighbors are Spanish speakers, and much knowledge and opportunities for education is recorded and accessible in Spanish.
I think that Jamaican schools should be teaching the children in Spanish and English too.
I have nothing to do with wher they are from.
It is all about preparing them to achieve their highest potential.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H_O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dr Dudd--while I agree with certain statements made, how do you figure they should be Spanish?
That would be like going to Argentina and telling them there German

And the Haitians go to Quebec when they come to Canada and the Quebecers HATE THEM </div></div>

[sistactry]

Re: Jamaican Patois

the idea is ridiculous and would only serve to make us more oppressed if u ask me~

[H_O]

Re: Jamaican Patois

Well, the other french speaking countries in the carribean Like Guadeloupe, St. Barts, Martinique dont seem to have a problem using french.

I think wht you are sayin is unfounded. Spanish, french, english.
creole in Quebec when they come to Canada doesnt work.

[Wendy]

Re: Jamaican Patois

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SistaCtry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the idea is ridiculous and would only serve to make us more oppressed if u ask me~ </div></div>

True dat.

As a person who writes in patwa ..I embrace it from a cutural perspective.

However, when these Amercians, who are exposed to hearing &quot;Jamaica Speak&quot; on tv or elsewhere, ask me what language is spoken in Jamaica - I proudly answer... <span style="font-weight: bold">&quot;English</span>&quot;

[mountaingal]

Re: Jamaican Patois

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wendilina</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So why is not taught in school in language classes MG? </div></div>
politics and history.

patwa it is seen as a language of the uneducated (much as English was a few hundred years ago). so there is a stigma.

there is no motivation (except on the part of a few) to work on patwa so that it can be taught - for example, you'd have to develop a standard spelling system.

also, you have folks like dr. dudd who feels teaching patwa means english have to take a back seat, and he feels that this will make it harder for jamaicans who will have to deal with a world of non-patwa speakers if they want to get ahead.

[LusciousJohnson]

Re: Jamaican Patois

in my opinion for some of the ppl that live in JA and speak only patwa, patwa is a language for them. i dont know about schooling in JA but this guy in JA said to me &quot;slow down and talk clear&quot; because he doesnt speak nor understand &quot;regular english&quot; that well. and it was hard for us to communicate at first. simple words like &quot;yall&quot; he didnt understand cuz they say &quot;unu.&quot;

so i guess i'm kinda torn...but i guess i would say its a language if i had to choose whether it is or not. when my friends asked me do i understand &quot;Jamaican&quot; as if it is a language, i say &quot;Jamaicans speak patwa not Jamaican&quot; because when u dont know about the Jamaican culture and here a Jamaican speaking patwa it sounds like a foreign language. it doesnt sound like english at all.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Jamaican Patois

I could say that about the way a lot of African Americans from some inner city speak too. And yes Jamaicans don't say Y'all, neither do they say you all either. Since we were taught in elementary that it is an improper use of English. And yes I know that African Americans use the term. We were taught to use 'you in referring to one or many people.
So if it one person is is &quot;you&quot;. and if it is a dozen, a hundred or 2, it is still &quot;you&quot; Incidentally thatis how it is used in college English too.
In other words even the Jamaicans that speakand understand English, would hav ea problem with th euse of the term,&quot;u'all&quot;.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fancy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in my opinion for some of the ppl that live in JA and speak only patwa, patwa is a language for them. i dont know about schooling in JA but this guy in JA said to me &quot;slow down and talk clear&quot; because he doesnt speak nor understand &quot;regular english&quot; that well. and it was hard for us to communicate at first. simple words like &quot;yall&quot; he didnt understand cuz they say &quot;unu.&quot;

so i guess i'm kinda torn...but i guess i would say its a language if i had to choose whether it is or not. when my friends asked me do i understand &quot;Jamaican&quot; as if it is a language, i say &quot;Jamaicans speak patwa not Jamaican&quot; because when u dont know about the Jamaican culture and here a Jamaican speaking patwa it sounds like a foreign language. it doesnt sound like english at all. </div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Jamaican Patois

have you ever visited Haiti??
And yes it is the language of the illiterate.
Since if you get aneducation, it have to be done in teh language the texts are published.
So patwa is thelanguage of teh illiterate.
and errespective of whouse it, that does ntochange the fact.
well I have visited the country before they start to teach creole and after. before the taught creole, the echos had books that were in french and cheap and easily available.
today the books are expensive limited duet ot copyright and the education is only good in the country.
Haitians use to work in France. A lot of french professors were haitians.
Yes they use to migrate, and cause brain drain. well Today they can't do that, but Haiti is not better for it.
This is a topic that is taught in elementary economics. So it is not my personal view.
It is a known principle. The easier system will always replace the difficult one, if they are given equal footing. That is what the haitian people did not know when they allowed foreigners, and some dumb locals to goad them into giving the easy language equal footing with the difficult one.
Now they have lost the difficult and most useful one.
As I state, I have the ability to see patterns wher most people see individual and unique systems. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wendilina</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So why is not taught in school in language classes MG? </div></div>
politics and history.

patwa it is seen as a language of the uneducated (much as English was a few hundred years ago). so there is a stigma.

there is no motivation (except on the part of a few) to work on patwa so that it can be taught - for example, you'd have to develop a standard spelling system.

also, you have folks like dr. dudd who feels teaching patwa means english have to take a back seat, and he feels that this will make it harder for jamaicans who will have to deal with a world of non-patwa speakers if they want to get ahead.
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[LusciousJohnson]

Re: Jamaican Patois

#1 not only African Americans say &quot;yall&quot;
#2 the only reason i picked that word is because yall is nowhere near close to unu and if u said unu to someone who doesnt speak patwa they would have no clue what u meant; however if u said something like &quot;bruk&quot; to someone who doesnt speak patwa and they had to guess what it meant they might figure out what it means. but noway would someone guess that unu means yall. so that was an example to show how some patwa words are nowhere near close to English words thus showing my opinion as to why patwa could be considered a language.
#3 the verbage inner city youths speak is still English...its slang that they use that makes it difficult for some to understand what they are saying. slang is different everywhere...doesnt make it sound like a foreign language since they are using English words. its just the order in which they use it that can make it hard to undertand unlike patwa where there are some obvious words that are totally different and are not English.