....

[evanovitch]

Re: ....

the AIR JAM employees did their own bit too...dem use it like it was dem own private conveyance....sometimes u call fi book fuss class n dem seh it full n den u see is pure family dem put een deh at the lass moment like...of course dat was before all n sundry stawt fly from yaad..den hell an powda house bruk out wid dat carrier...politician dem wife, dem mistress n dem sweetheart vied fi di few seats....it was a bloody shame...

[Q3210]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Negative eonomic growth from 1974 up. Police murders started unabated with the &quot;suppression of Crimes act&quot; where police were given powers to infringe on the rights of Jamaican citizens. Corruption became a part of life.
Shame and disgrace took the place in minds of people who were once proud and dignified. Afterwards we lost the ability to be shameful and disgraceful when we did badly.
Badness became the in thing. Informer fe dead. Entrepeneurship was seen as exploitation of the little man.
People became entwined in gun culture and &quot;tek weh&quot; rather than to give.
We became lookers and added to the numbers who fled to other parts of the world instead of doers and patriots.
We saw ourselves divided by party politics and saw Jamaica not as of our own....Jamaica`s economic, moral and political downward spiral started with the leadeship of Mike Manley in 1972. </div></div>


Another individual propagating the myth fabricated by the British and other preferred minority groups (that benefited from the subjugation of the majority black population) asserting that Jamaica was a prosperous country experiencing economic growth before 1972 and Michael Manley.

From its conception the former overt slave plantation, known as Jamaica, was never designed to benefit the majority of its people .The majority of Jamaicans were living in poverty long before Michael Manley became prime minister. In 1865 one of the underlying cause of the rebellion was the high unemployment and poverty that was rampant on the island The 1930s violent labor unrest were kindled by the harsh economic reality on the island, the unemployment rate for population in Kingston was over 50% in that time period.

If Jamaica was experiencing so much growth before 1972, why did such a large number of Jamaicans migrate to Britain in the 50s and early 60s?

Your claim that “Jamaica’s economic ,moral and political downward spiral started with the leadership of mike Manley in 1972” , is disingenuous at best or worst a flagrant attempt to mislead the readers, who might be ignorant about the history of the former slave island. Like the man said “you can fool some people some time but you can’t fool all the people all the time’’ </div></div>

Hey Know it all, if you can read, I said that things got worst during the Manley era thereon. I didn`t say that Jamaica was prosperous before.
Since Manley, Patterson and the exuberant SistaP have not made things any better.
The present JLP admin inherited a stte in immense disrepair.
Scandal after scandal were being spawned almost daily.
Politics was not about creation of wealth but about redistribution of spoils and scarce benefits. Opportunity and the proposal for well being had been lost. Only party faithfuls had any inclination on gaining contracts. Contracts that exploited Operation Pride causing Carl Blythe to resign and certain persons with their snouts in the trough to continue digging away from the public coffers like never before.
Quality of Education produced kids who could not identify with reading matter. Pre-trained teachers were put in charge of infants who required expertise in phoenetics and alphabetical identification. A pre-trained teacher was just a fancy word for saying a teacher who was not trained to teach.
That was the great vision that was unfolding during your time warp.
At least before the 70s vast amounts of children could read and be knowledgable with numbers. Nowadays, the rsults have adults in the 20 to 35 age group groveling with comprehension of the written word, struggling with simple commands, some not knowing to differntiate between left and right, north and south and the corruption bog wag which miseducated people from knowing morality. A socialism that educated people to want from others what they could not produce for nothing.
Ultimately causing your parents to run from this island in search of civility and opportunity.
You dont know what you`re talking about. I know because I have seen it happen every day of my life.
Ask just what are the complexities that have caused 571 murders so far this year. Ask why Jamaicans are unconcerned with what happens in other neighbourhoods as long as it doesn`t happen to them. The brutal slayings of children and women never before seen prior to the era of the 70s to the presnt day. Ask why jobs are scarce as a willy penny. Production and manufacturing almost zero compared to the days of Bob Lightbourne and Wills Issacs when factories were being openned daily and people were going to work even if the pay was minimal, they had hope and did not rot into idleness digging out hand middles with their favourite fix.

[barosa]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Jamaicans state was constructed on a foundation of violence and mayhem. From the day Europeans set foot on that now wrenched island ,it has been a hell hole and or a death ground for Tainos and the majority of the population ,who are of African descent .“YOU’’’ are a testament to the potency of the European/ Americans conditioning ,it is remarkable you would feign that Jamaica’s problems started in 1972 while at the same time you ignored the hundreds of years of exploitation and inequity that existed before 1972.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Let me put forth this question again. If Jamaica’s economy was such a success before Michael Manley, why was there a mass migration of black Jamaicans to Britain in the 50s and early 60s?</span>

The so called growth that the former slave plantation island experience, did little or nothing to alleviate the high unemployment and poverty that affected most of the descendants of Africans slaves .Manley to his credit sought to redress some of the inequities in the society, unfortunately, he under estimated the resolve of the local and foreign elites, to keep in place a exploitive system that they profited handsomely from. The rest as they say is history, the people with the ill gotten capital sided with the JLP and the SEE.I.A (sic) to destabilize the country and in the process brought more untold hardship on the poor and some middle class Jamaicans.</div></div>
Panajar, it would appear that from your statement above, you have concluded that the period in Jamaica beginning in 1950 into the early 60s was the most calamitous period, economically speaking, in the history of Jamaica... Where did you ever got that idea? ~ and from which text book? ~ Let me say here and now, &quot;most emphatically&quot;, nothing else could be further from the truth! In fact, I can speak of that period and beyond, because I lived through those years as a youngster and young adult.

Jamaicans didn't mass migrate to Britain because the economy of Jamaica wasn't a success as you would want others to believe... No one ever said Jamaica was was rich and prosperous, but average folks got by. ~ It was post WW2, and the need for average skilled and unskilled workers in Britain was great for the re-building of that country and its economy... `Because of the British open door policy at the time, many young emmigrants went there for educational opportunities, and I may add, they went to Britain from all over the British Commonwealth as it was kwown then... Hopefully, this will set you on a course to gather the facts about the period without the added distortions...
_____________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act : George Orwell [/quote]

[Panajar]

Jamaicas crime and poverty

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hey Know it all, if you can read, I said that things got worst during the Manley era thereon. I didn`t say that Jamaica was prosperous before.
Since Manley, Patterson and the exuberant SistaP have not made things any better.
The present JLP admin inherited a stte in immense disrepair.
Scandal after scandal were being spawned almost daily.
Politics was not about creation of wealth but about redistribution of spoils and scarce benefits. Opportunity and the proposal for well being had been lost. Only party faithfuls had any inclination on gaining contracts. Contracts that exploited Operation Pride causing Carl Blythe to resign and certain persons with their snouts in the trough to continue digging away from the public coffers like never before.
Quality of Education produced kids who could not identify with reading matter. Pre-trained teachers were put in charge of infants who required expertise in phoenetics and alphabetical identification. A pre-trained teacher was just a fancy word for saying a teacher who was not trained to teach.
That was the great vision that was unfolding during your time warp.
At least before the 70s vast amounts of children could read and be knowledgable with numbers. Nowadays, the rsults have adults in the 20 to 35 age group groveling with comprehension of the written word, struggling with simple commands, some not knowing to differntiate between left and right, north and south and the corruption bog wag which miseducated people from knowing morality. A socialism that educated people to want from others what they could not produce for nothing.
Ultimately causing your parents to run from this island in search of civility and opportunity.
You dont know what you`re talking about. I know because I have seen it happen every day of my life.
Ask just what are the complexities that have caused 571 murders so far this year. Ask why Jamaicans are unconcerned with what happens in other neighbourhoods as long as it doesn`t happen to them. The brutal slayings of children and women never before seen prior to the era of the 70s to the presnt day. Ask why jobs are scarce as a willy penny. Production and manufacturing almost zero compared to the days of Bob Lightbourne and Wills Issacs when factories were being openned daily and people were going to work even if the pay was minimal, they had hope and did not rot into idleness digging out hand middles with their favourite fix. </div></div>

First let me express my gratitude to you for the know it all compliment that you gave me, one of my mentors always tell his students to accept any compliment offered to them. You assert that “things” got worst after Manley in 1972 which implies that it was better before, I might have to agree with you. In fact “things” were much better for the former colonial rulers /slave masters. For hundreds of years Jamaica had phenomenal growth under direct colonial rule but the majority, of the African slaves and their descendants did not benefit from this growth, that they were mostly responsible for via their unpaid labor .Growth in an inequitable society has little or no positive effect on the lives of the majority of its citizens.

Jamaica was and is one of the most inequitable societies in the western world. The only transgression Mike Manley was guilty of was an attempt to redress the issue of inequity. You claim that education was much better before, if this was the case why was there a need for the creation of JAMAL?

You attempt to associate the present “scandals” with the previous administration , yes they are responsible for some of these “scandals” but the present JLP have a lot of their own making ,the Mannat Phelps and Phillips scandal can be placed squarely at the feet of the JLP so is the Mayberry and Johnson scandal. You have a propensity to perceive Jamaica’s problems through the prism of party politics which prevent you from seeing the bigger picture. You might be surprise that I view the Patterson administration as a failure, in fact Patterson, Omar et al presided over POSSIBLY ONE OF THE LARGEST TRANSFER OF WEALTH FROM THE POOR TO THE RICH, IN MY VIEW FINSAC WAS A DISASTER.Let me conclude by saying, poverty will always breed crime!

Jamaica’s problem is far more complex than the period when Michael Manley served as Prime Minister. Morris Cargill seems to had a perfect grasp of Jamaica’s problems, in the following article he made a brilliant assessment the issues affecting the island.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Emancipation, Independence and all that

Morris Cargill
</span>

WE HAVE recently been celebrating Emancipation. Certainly the abolishment of slavery was something greatly to be celebrated. As we all know, <span style="color: #FF0000">however, when the slaves were &quot;freed&quot; by political action no economic provisions were made to turn that &quot;freedom&quot; into a reality. In addition the terms of trade were stacked against them. In consequence the main result of political freedom was a century and a half of poverty; a poverty which has never been alleviated.</span>

And then came another dose of politically contrived freedom. In the 1940s and 1950s our leaders were so intoxicated by the idea of becoming a free and independent nation <span style="color: #CC0000">that we again, like the former slaves, accepted a political freedom without any economic provisions to make that freedom a reality. In consequence ever since 1962 our poverty has continued and the terms of trade have continued to be stacked against us.</span>

Thereafter, after a brief and disastrous love affair with a rhetorical socialism, we switched to something which we called private enterprise. In no time we found ourselves enmeshed in another ideology called Globalisation and Free Trade. It all sounded very promising, but the practical effects have been to give large international corporations, growing larger and larger daily, the capacity to manipulate world trade in their favour. This has undoubtedly increased the wealth of some developed economies, especially that of the USA.

But once again we have become enmeshed in a system which is stacked against Third World countries, and once again Jamaica, in particular, is finding itself in swirling currents without a suitable lifebelt. A few Third World countries, some of them in the Caribbean, have been able to survive and prosper by the application of intelligence, farsightedness and thrift. But, as usual, Jamaican short-sightedness and the love of words without content have contrived to make us the sorry victims of the brave new world of Globalisation and Free Trade.

So in the midst of our celebration of Emancipation and Independence (without economic reality) we are finding ourselves progressively impoverished.

We are told that our salvation depends upon our ability to compete. Fair enough, up to a point. But how can we compete when our Government by short-sightedness and neglect puts our capacity to do so beyond our reach. Worse than that we have adopted a gross materialism which guarantees a progressive sinking into debt. Debt combined with self-foolery are the two provisions which we are currently making for our unfortunate descendants.
READ THE REST OF CARGILL

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Jamaicas crime and poverty

Nobody on this board is interested in these sort of information .

It does not fit the the picture they are painting.

Irrespective of how false.

[Q3210]

Re: Jamaicas crime and poverty

Cargill was right. You and I have many simular thoughts. Introductory words were taken dubiously.
Political independence was all. The constitution was drafted by some elite persons in society. The ordinary man had no input plus there was no referendum on the matter.
Economic development in the 60s was eroded by the politics of ad hoc redistribution of benefits and spoils, partisan trade unionism, increase in sophisticated crime, increase in divisions in society.
Nowhere was it thought that the people were sovereign. David Coore warned that to give justiciable rights to the people would derogate the sovereignity of parliament.
Instead, our own born and bred sons and so-called intellects of the soil have disappointed us taking up and doing worst than ever the colonists did in post Jamaica slavery.
We kill one another now more than ever before. Our economic base has long been disolved where we have almost nothing of worthwhile production to rely on.
Recent events due to the world recession dampened bauxite mining and aluminium production. World trade regulations played havoc with banana exports.
We were producing sugar uncompetitively for many years, thus making sugar unviable.
Tourism luckily still attracts many from across the seas, Air Jamaica or none. Remittances spoil us into a sense of laziness and dependence on the goodwill of relatives abroad.
Education is worst now than it was before JAMAL. You never found hundreds of adults attending JAMAL classes, but you find thousands of youngsters leaving school unskilled and semi-literate.
Youngsters on the corner see drug pedalling, gun-running and dee-jaying as a ways and means of making a living. Academia is not attractive for boys to take up, hence girls are the majority passing out of tertiary institutions.
Men are not able to court women with equity of mouth and pocket. Only the few men that have it end up having a dozen women. The career girls end up being single parents. Children have no father figure simply because there is no father present except on week ends. Society breaks down by way of broken family life and a broken political system.
I heard a minister of religion this morning calling on the politicians to lock down and bring in the church so that a revival of spirituality be propagated to save Jamaica.
How much sense does that or does that not make?

[Wendy]

Re: Jamaicas crime and poverty

Makes a lot of sense Q – More and more it appears that the Bruce Golding government has neither the will nor the ability to be 'new and different' from its predecessor.

The only real solution for poverty is wealth creation. But the politics of poverty is that the government throws placating crumbs to the poor, which keep them happy and grateful for small mercies. The government governs as if it despises the poor and does more to keep the most basic opportunity out of their reach than anything else.

If the government cared more for the disenfranchised, it could work wonders for them by just improving the law and order environment for everyone and reigning in corruption. But what we are seeing is the inner-city poor, largely abandoned by the government, must be contneted with what security can be provided by the “donmans” at high personal cost to their dignity, opportunities and marginal livelihoods.

[jah_yout]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bleXXed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Jamaica`s economic, moral and political downward spiral started with the leadeship of Mike Manley in 1972. </div></div>

who? the great Joshua??
how yuh fi sey dat??
Thats probably sacrilege fi di comreds




</div></div>


if jamaica had been under jlp leadership for the last 40 years straight jamaica would have gold-paved streets right now


our tribal/political mentality certainly not helping anything...

blame pnp blame jlp blah blah blah...

ALL THE LEADERS OF BOTH PARTIES can share in this blame game...

we have been willing to maim and kill each other over these guys yet people still come in here and talk bout their tribal allegiances
makes me want to

[Tuff Gong]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bleXXed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jazz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">see this mi nuh understand?? why??? just random violence so??

Well dem woulda haffe shoot mi wile mi ah drive ova dem REES... mi nah tap! </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">&quot;I am going to let them have sleepless nights ... We are going to be their worst nightmare,&quot; </span>
Portia Simpson-Miller

This should help to answer many questions about what is happening a yard now-a-days..

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070917/lead/lead1.html

Yup a now people ago start run over people wid dem car.. even more dan before.. </div></div>

Explains a lot this how Comrades operate.

They tell Jamaicans to get on 5 flights out the country, Lock dem up in Red Fence for no reason, burn old folks out their homes and toss babies into fire.
Lead young men to their deaths at Green Bay and/or in the case of Omar FINSAC dem.

The Comrades have a long and successful history of creating nightmares. The latest is the Dudus business. 18 years of success for Dudus then as a last lick hand him over to the USA anticipating the Nightmarish results.

I did try to warn the JLP but as usual they are so inept that they still got blindsided.

[barosa]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Comrades have a long and successful history of creating nightmares. The latest is the Dudus business. 18 years of success for Dudus then as a last lick hand him over to the USA anticipating the Nightmarish results.

I did try to warn the JLP but as usual they are so inept that they still got blindsided. </div></div>
There is no doubt that there will be political capital to be gained by the PNP when the [censored] hit the fan.. I suppose because of the JLP's ineptitude, they will have no choice but to &quot;gird their loins&quot;, take the blame, accept mistakes and try to survive the best way they can...
_________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act : George Orwell

[Q3210]

Re: ....

Wendy, Barosa, Jah Yout et al, There is hope. Listening to Karl Samuda, minister of trade and development today in parliament outlining the various projects and opportunities being created. If ever they become real, Jamaica can be the Jamaica we all aspire it to be.
Vernamfield Airport, Caymanas lands commercial development, Port development, Agricultural products such as lemon or fever grass extract are songs already sung, but in short order there seem,s plans to make prayers into reality.
We will see as time goes by how these plans materialize and materialize only when Jamaicans benefit from job creations on the short run and wealth creation on the medium to long run.

[Ja. Jewel]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wendy, Barosa, Jah Yout et al, There is hope. Listening to Karl Samuda, minister of trade and development today in parliament outlining the various projects and opportunities being created. If ever they become real, Jamaica can be the Jamaica we all aspire it to be.
Vernamfield Airport, Caymanas lands commercial development, Port development, Agricultural products such as lemon or fever grass extract are songs already sung, but in short order there seem,s plans to make prayers into reality.
We will see as time goes by how these plans materialize and materialize only when Jamaicans benefit from job creations on the short run and wealth creation on the medium to long run. </div></div>

&amp; for your optimism!

[barosa]

Re: ....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wendy, Barosa, Jah Yout et al, There is hope. Listening to Karl Samuda, minister of trade and development today in parliament outlining the various projects and opportunities being created. If ever they become real, Jamaica can be the Jamaica we all aspire it to be.
Vernamfield Airport, Caymanas lands commercial development, Port development, Agricultural products such as lemon or fever grass extract are songs already sung, but in short order there seem,s plans to make prayers into reality.
We will see as time goes by how these plans materialize and materialize only when Jamaicans benefit from job creations on the short run and wealth creation on the medium to long run. </div></div>

Q, Thanks for your optimism. With so much negative news re the murder rate and other things like gang war activities, any hopeful plans for development and employment opportunities, we surely welcome... I hope the &quot;IF&quot; actually turns into REALITY.
____________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act: Geo. Orwell