Should Bruce resign? yes r no?

[Magician]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would he not discuss his resignation with the head of state (Queen or GG)? </div></div>

Bruce was driving his '86 Lada from Vale Royal to King's House to tender the resignation and:

a. The engine dead (again)
b. His Claro phone ran out of credit and had to detour
c. He encounter a roadblock lead by Dr. B.
d. He never left his house.

[barosa]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmoothOp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the narrative will be that Bruce offered to resign and his party rejected his resignation. Noice.
</div></div>

smaddy enlighten me on the constitutionality of this, pls. if he is prime minister, would he not discuss his resignation with the head of state (Queen or GG)? how is it that it is the party that decides whether he is prime minister or not?
</div></div>
MGee, I see what you are driving at. The Queen, hence her GG's are only titular head(s) of state without any authority. The authority or power is vested in the elected leader of the Govt./Party that forms it. In Golding's case, he hasn't resign (at least not yet) so the GG is just an observer like the rest of us. Until a situation develops when he is needed to carry out certain duties on the instructions of the PM, he really is a figure head... Jamaica should do away with the Monarchy, why have it?
___________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act: George Orwell

[MarieK]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

http://www.facebook.com/RESIGNNOWBRUCEGOLDING?ref=search&amp;sid=1386201156.76647290..1&amp;v=wall

[Xavier]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

@ Magic - He encountered a roadblock lead by Dr. B and tried to call but his Claro phone ran out of credit. He had to detour. While on the detour his engine went dead (again). He contemplated that he never should have left his house.

[mountaingal]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmoothOp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So the narrative will be that Bruce offered to resign and his party rejected his resignation. Noice.
</div></div>

smaddy enlighten me on the constitutionality of this, pls. if he is prime minister, would he not discuss his resignation with the head of state (Queen or GG)? how is it that it is the party that decides whether he is prime minister or not?
</div></div>
MGee, I see what you are driving at. The Queen, hence her GG's are only titular head(s) of state without any authority. The authority or power is vested in the elected leader of the Govt./Party that forms it. In Golding's case, he hasn't resign (at least not yet) so the GG is just an observer like the rest of us. Until a situation develops when he is needed to carry out certain duties on the instructions of the PM, he really is a figure head... Jamaica should do away with the Monarchy, why have it? </div></div>

hi, barosa. i understand the role of the GG. what i'm trying to put forward is that resigning as a <span style="font-weight: bold">prime minister of a country </span>is different from resigning as the l<span style="font-weight: bold">eader of a party</span>.

i know the 2 roles are related, but a prime minister has different accountability than a party leader. whether the GG or Queen are titular is a bit beside the point. a prime minister in a country belonging to the british commonwealth serves at indulgence (i think there's an official word for it, but cyaan memba it right now) of the queen, so if that position is to be vacated, then the queen or her rep (the GG) would have to accept the resignation.

as far as i know, if bruce were to resign as prime minister, it would be the queen (via the gg) who would decide to accept it or not, and if it is accepted, to name/accept a replacement or ask that new elections be held.

that's my understanding of the parliamentary/constitutional model in which jamaica operates. if i'm wrong on that, hope smaddy enlighten me.

[Dyoll_73]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

Discussions with the GG regarding a resignation (or informing him of resignation) is a mere formality and would take place only after the PM fails to command the support of a majority in the House of Representatives whether because he resigned the leadership position of his party and the party accepted his resignation, or if he doesn't survive a vote of 'no-confidence' in the House. Yes, it is the GG to whom he must submit his resignation from the office of PM, not the party, but that would come only after the scenario above. As you know, leadership of the majority party is a pre-requisite for being appointed PM. If he lost the former, he cannot retain the latter.

[Magician]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@ Magic - He encountered a roadblock lead by Dr. B and tried to call but his Claro phone ran out of credit. He had to detour. While on the detour his engine went dead (again). He contemplated that he never should have left his house. </div></div>

In other words &quot;what had happened was...&quot;

[Tuff Gong]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Queen_of_d_A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.facebook.com/RESIGNNOWBRU.....1&amp;v=wall </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL</span> Good thing I don't have facebook!

[sistactry]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Queen_of_d_A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.facebook.com/RESIGNNOWBRU.....1&amp;v=wall </div></div>

me juss see it in the STAR and send it to all my friends,

BRUCE MUST GO!!

[Yuriatin]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">WOW!</span></span>

Dem ah gwan wid tings pan facebook bah bah!!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Queen_of_d_A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.facebook.com/RESIGNNOWBRU.....1&amp;v=wall </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL</span> Good thing I don't have facebook! </div></div>

[barosa]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuri_</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">WOW!</span></span>

Dem ah gwan wid tings pan facebook bah bah!!!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Queen_of_d_A]http://www.facebook.com/RESIGNNOWBRU.....1&amp;v=wall </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL</span> Good thing I don't have facebook! </div></div>What's this &quot;Facebook&quot; hoopla is all about? Since when is it OK for &quot;social media&quot; to carry sway over what ordinary Jamaicans want or what their elected Government decides to do? ~ I am not saying it is, but how do we know that this hysteria it is not backed by the OPPOSITION or any other group for that matter not having the interest of Jamaica at heart. I dont trust a lot of what goes on in Facebook...
_________________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act: George Orwell

[X]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

Bruce should, and most likley will resign.. if only the party will accept it.
As I said early, that leadership is tainted and only the overly ambitious or the naive would want it right now.
Its hot patty.

This is interesting as I remember a few years ago I was being driven around the island by a prominent former MP (from Seaga days). The elections were around the corner, and it was pretty obvious from the polls and the vibez that the people were finally ready to evit the PNP.
As we waited on a field inCalrendon for a gentleman who was running late even by &quot;Jamaica time&quot;, i started prodding the MP for his toughts on the comming elections and wheter or not he would be active in the party and what plans the JLP had for the country.
Cant remember his exact words, but he made it clear that Bruce DID NOT relish the idea of becoming the new PM of Jamaica. He was concerened that he really did not have the remedy to fix the damage done by the PNP and he was also concerned that this was the worse possible time to finally get a shot at leadership as the global economy was tanking.

Its Bruce chance to go, and if the JLP will let him, I'd bet he'd gladly go.

If the JLP is unable to fess up an appropraite stead for leadership, and some how (flash elections) Portia/ Peter and the other Moral Gods of Jamaica take leadership.. then God help Jamaica..
One thing for sure, whatever we get next, we da-m well deserve..

[mountaingal]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Discussions with the GG regarding a resignation (or informing him of resignation) is a mere formality and would take place only after the PM fails to command the support of a majority in the House of Representatives whether because he resigned the leadership position of his party and the party accepted his resignation, or if he doesn't survive a vote of 'no-confidence' in the House. Yes, it is the GG to whom he must submit his resignation from the office of PM, not the party, but that would come only after the scenario above. As you know, leadership of the majority party is a pre-requisite for being appointed PM. If he lost the former, he cannot retain the latter. </div></div>

there's still something not quite right about the process here, and the main reason i'm puzzled is because we here in canada have gone thru our share of political turbulence and brinksmanship that are rooted in party politics, yes, but also invoke the rules of the parliamentary model we are following.

my biggest question continues to be why bruce's standing as prime minister is being determined by his party and not the parliament on a matter that has to do with the governance of the nation?

i found this excerpt from ricky singh at the observer, and it made me realize that one of the big differences between what's going on in JA and what has happened here in Canada is the that the opposition in Jamaica seems chary about bringing down the government in a no-confidence vote - which would seem to me the logical determinant of whether bruce should continue as prime minister.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Consistent with established norms of the Westminster-style multi-party democracy to which governing and opposition parties in Caricom generally subscribe, a head of government who felt compelled to confess giving false information on a matter of grave national importance -- as done by Golding -- can expect to face a no-confidence motion, having damaged his personal credibility and that of the administration he leads.

At the time of writing, while Opposition Leader Portia Simpson Miller was emotionally engaged in a sort of political war cry about lack of confidence in the prime minister, there was no indication of her party initiating a formal no-confidence motion against Mr Golding in the House of Representatives. </div></div>

[SmoothOperator]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

Another potential conflict of interest as I see it. Tom Tavares-Finson - JLP senator - is the lawyer for Christoper Coke. Go figure.

[evanovitch]

Re: JLP rejects Golding's offer to resign

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmoothOp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another potential conflict of interest as I see it. Tom Tavares-Finson - JLP senator - is the lawyer for Christoper Coke. Go figure. </div></div>

Y...Neita is lawyer fi a gang a uptown to downtown....given dat di said social circle covah di judiciary a yaad, if u can pay fi ha a lawyer from di circle u go wid it...