When kin of slaves and owners meet...

**franksterr** · 05-25-2010, 07:09 AM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

BlackStar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To answer the "my family didn't own slaves" trope, it is more than likely that many non-slave holders were overseers, slave catchers, and participated in lynch mobs - active players in supporting an economy based on slavery then sharecropping.

All the descendants of these participants including the slave owners benefited from Jim Crow laws, New Deal programs, etc. which were explicitly designed to prevent tax paying black people from exercising their rights as citizens.

ETA: More participants in the slave economy who didn't necessarily own slaves:
- Slave ship captains
- Slave ship sailors
- Dock workers
- Auctioneers
- Notaries, lawyers, judges
- "Law" enforcement

All that to show that slavery didn't exist in a bubble with just the owners and the slaves while everyone else outside the bubble remained untouched by the institution.
</div></div>

Well said.....On another level,
WORKING HYPOTHESIS - monkey see monkey do.
if the theory of hereditary disposition holds(is there such a theory?)wherein "genetics" and "modeling" contributes toward habituating one generation to pass on modes of response or adaptation to environment to the next generation - Meme, culture language and ways of thought and doing.

So if your ancestors are murderers you will have more of such a perdisposition than some one who ancestors were not murderers. Once one of your ancestor has done the dastardly deed, then all future generation is stained with the sin(adams curse)of having the biological inprint of the act forever etch(the mark of cain) in there genes.
Ha Ha

**lonewolf** · 05-25-2010, 08:23 AM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well said.....On another level,
WORKING HYPOTHESIS - monkey see monkey do.
if the theory of hereditary disposition holds(is there such a theory?)wherein "genetics" and "modeling" contributes toward habituating one generation to pass on modes of response or adaptation to environment to the next generation - Meme, culture language and ways of thought and doing.

<span style="font-weight: bold">So if your ancestors are murderers you will have more of such a perdisposition than some one who ancestors were not murderers</span>. Once one of your ancestor has done the dastardly deed, then all future generation is stained with the sin(adams curse)of having the biological inprint of the act forever etch(the mark of cain) in there genes.
Ha Ha </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">So, using the same criteria, that's why crime rate stats for blacks is so high?

It's inherited? It's predisposition?</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Heather Mac Donald
Distorting the Truth About Crime and Race
The New York Times is at it again.
14 May 2010

"blacks committed 66 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009 (though they were only 55 percent of all stops and only 23 percent of the city’s population). Blacks committed 80 percent of all shootings in the first half of 2009. Together, blacks and Hispanics committed 98 percent of all shootings. Blacks committed nearly 70 percent of all robberies. Whites, by contrast, committed 5 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009, though they are 35 percent of the city’s population (and were 10 percent of all stops). They committed 1.8 percent of all shootings and less than 5 percent of all robberies. The face of violent crime in New York, in other words, like in every other large American city, is almost exclusively black and brown. Any given violent crime is 13 times more likely to be committed by a black than by a white perpetrator" </div></div> </span>

Page not found | City Journal

http://www.city-journal.org/2010/eon0514hm.html

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 01:25 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Although I'm not certain,I suspect I am a product of ancestors who were both slave owners or overseers as well as slaves. Whoever they were or whatever they did is out of my control. They are long dead.

If some of my relatives were evil despicable people then I guess the higher power will deal with them accordingly. All I can do is make my way through this life the best way I know how and be accountable for my own actions or lack thereof. </span> </div></div>My white ancestors raped black women.

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 01:39 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Well said.....On another level,
WORKING HYPOTHESIS - monkey see monkey do.
if the theory of hereditary disposition holds(is there such a theory?)wherein "genetics" and "modeling" contributes toward habituating one generation to pass on modes of response or adaptation to environment to the next generation - Meme, culture language and ways of thought and doing.

So if your ancestors are murderers you will have more of such a perdisposition than some one who ancestors were not murderers. Once one of your ancestor has done the dastardly deed, then all future generation is stained with the sin(adams curse)of having the biological inprint of the act forever etch(the mark of cain) in there genes.
Ha Ha</span> </div></div>
I hear you, franksterr. Lest my strong language be misconstrued (as it obviously has been), my point is more about the privilege obtained because one's ancestors conducted themselves in a dastardly fashion.

For example, a man robs and kills a next man, uses the stolen money to create an immense fortune that he passes on to his children. The thief's children live well from the fortune: best education, lifestyle, silver spoon, etc. The victim's children, on the other hand, suffer from the loss of their father's income and never get justice or rewarded damages in a court of law.

Do the thief's descendants bear some moral responsibility for what has become of the victim's descendants?

Perhaps I'm mistaken in my impression, but it seems that most people would say 'yes' to the above *EXCEPT* when it comes to the question of African chattel slavery. Just saying...

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 01:54 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

A bit more on the angle that everyone seems to think of first: Psycho-Genealogy

**halfwaytree** · 05-25-2010, 01:55 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Although I'm not certain,I suspect I am a product of ancestors who were both slave owners or overseers as well as slaves. Whoever they were or whatever they did is out of my control. They are long dead.

If some of my relatives were evil despicable people then I guess the higher power will deal with them accordingly. All I can do is make my way through this life the best way I know how and be accountable for my own actions or lack thereof. </span> </div></div>My white ancestors raped black women. </div></div>

I'm not sure I get your point? Are you saying that only the present day "white" ancestors of you kin are destined to become rapist? Forgive me if I have missed the mark on what you are getting at.

Someone's black ancestor slit my white aunts throat during a robbery at her house in Kingston many years ago (back in the late 60s). I would never venture to say that his children would become murderers just because their father was.

**franksterr** · 05-25-2010, 02:04 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

lonrwolf

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">So, using the same criteria, that's why crime rate stats for blacks is so high?

It's inherited? It's predisposition?</span></div></div>

Its learned dysfunctional behaviour, from encounter with those who are enforcing compliance thru cultural indoctrination.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Heather Mac Donald
Distorting the Truth About Crime and Race
The New York Times is at it again.
14 May 2010

"blacks committed 66 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009 (though they were only 55 percent of all stops and only 23 percent of the city’s population). Blacks committed 80 percent of all shootings in the first half of 2009. Together, blacks and Hispanics committed 98 percent of all shootings. Blacks committed nearly 70 percent of all robberies. Whites, by contrast, committed 5 percent of all violent crimes in the first half of 2009, though they are 35 percent of the city’s population (and were 10 percent of all stops). They committed 1.8 percent of all shootings and less than 5 percent of all robberies. The face of violent crime in New York, in other words, like in every other large American city, is almost exclusively black and brown. Any given violent crime is 13 times more likely to be committed by a black than by a white perpetrator" </div></div> </span>

Page not found | City Journal

http://www.city-journal.org/2010/eon0514hm.html

[/quote]
The face of crime the world over is a result of proverty and social oppression.
The face of violence has always been in the possession of those with power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPBHtjZmSpw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr00KMl-Jus&feature=related

THE CRIMINALIZATION OF BEING BLACKS - the new form of christianization and jimcrowism.
If its not a crime until you are found guilty, and thru prejudiced blacks are more likely to be found guilty for the same crime than whites then your stats will show as you quoted Also if you are focusing your efforts in black communities then it stands to reason you will find more crimes there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzXjgZe5sZg&feature=related

How many warships and bombs and missiles have innercity blacks drop on on innocent citizens of foreign countries. Or cause strife and death thru political subterfuge to keep poor countries destabilised?

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 02:05 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone's black ancestor slit my white aunts throat during a robbery at her house in Kingston many years ago (back in the late 60s). <span style="font-weight: bold">I would never venture to say that his children would become murderers just because their father was.</span></div></div>That isn't what I was saying either, but some of the respondents to this thread seem to think that is what I meant in my posts. See my clarification 2-3 posts above.

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 02:08 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">So, using the same criteria, that's why crime rate stats for blacks is so high?

It's inherited? It's predisposition?</span></div></div>Relevance?

**halfwaytree** · 05-25-2010, 02:09 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

OK sorry Black Star, my work is backing up but I will check your post later.

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 02:12 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK sorry Black Star, my work is backing up but I will check your post later. </div></div>Oh yeah, watch out for that spy...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7YvAYIJSSZY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7YvAYIJSSZY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
<span style="font-size: 8pt"><span style="font-style: italic">Somebody's Watching Me</span> by Rockwell</span>

**franksterr** · 05-25-2010, 02:18 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

BlackStar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I hear you, franksterr. Lest my strong language be misconstrued (as it obviously has been), my point is more about the privilege obtained because one's ancestors conducted themselves in a dastardly fashion.</div></div>

Yes...I have not misconstrued your point.
I was only demonstrating that traits and behaviour are passed on generationally which can be considered a unit of cultural behaviour of a particular culture of a group.

Also the denial of the same privilege to others.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For example, a man robs and kills a next man, uses the stolen money to create an immense fortune that he passes on to his children. The thief's children live well from the fortune: best education, lifestyle, silver spoon, etc. The victim's children, on the other hand, suffer from the loss of their father's income and never get justice or rewarded damages in a court of law.

Do the thief's descendants bear some moral responsibility for what has become of the victim's descendants?</div></div>

YES.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Perhaps I'm mistaken in my impression, but it seems that most people would say 'yes' to the above *EXCEPT* when it comes to the question of African chattel slavery. Just saying... </div></div>

Conscious and Unconscious racism

Blackstar* · 05-25-2010, 02:26 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Yes...I have not misconstrued your point.
I was only demonstrating that traits and behaviour are passed on generationally which can be considered a unit of cultural behaviour of a particular culture of a group.</span></div></div>Psychogenealogy is indeed be a valid part of the discussion, I'm just not qualified to delve into it.

Other than that, we seem to be on the same page.

**franksterr** · 05-25-2010, 02:31 PM

Re: When kin of slaves and owners meet...

Curmudgeon_Milo
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Someone's black ancestor slit my white aunts throat during a robbery at her house in Kingston many years ago (back in the late 60s). I would never venture to say that his children would become murderers just because their father was. </div></div>

I am the guilty party.

Most of us are products of our environment.
So It depends was s/he brought up in an environment of violence?
Does s/he accompanies or hears about and glorifies his/her fathers exploits?
Is such behaviour accept as normal?
The above is only three major factors, that will create a tendency to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa2WB0r7L7s&NR=1

When kin of slaves and owners meet...

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