am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

**sistactry** · 05-21-2010, 02:05 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

it shameful yes Vanny, we only grace is that it not on the reg news channels, tank God

now as for the diapora groups, so far enoh, they have been very quiet, not a peep so far, i suppose this weekend, dem might come out the closet, i suppose on the radio they were discussing it, but me never ketch it, as me get home so late,

but shameful???, double shameful, dem come in like some backawall place whey savages dem deh, sasscrise,

**Xavier** · 05-21-2010, 02:10 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

I will address the diaspora group questions. I have mixed feeling about these groups. I have been invited to a few meetings of the different groups. I attended the conference they had last year. I have <span style="font-weight: bold">not taken an active role </span>because I think we Jamaicans love a good soap box. I am a person of action and like to cut through the "speechs" and get something done. Okay let me get off my soap box.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how many feel represented by the supposed Diasporan groups who keep getting press</div></div>
I think there is a mis-conception here. The quotes are from individual "leaders" in the diaspora not the formal "Jamaica Diaspora Board/Advisory". These individuals maybe delegates of the board but do they speak for the Board of advisors? I don't these individual represent the views of everyone but they get the temperature of the community because many of them are out their. Keep in mind it is a large community.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
do u feel dat dem speak fi u or r they as partisan as any political group </div></div>

Based on my experience I don't think they are partisans. I see many of the leaders of the different groups go out of their way to <span style="font-weight: bold">NOT</span> pick sides.

Edited to add "NOT" pick sides.

**neutral** · 05-21-2010, 02:18 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

Speaking as a fellow diasporian (love that word lol !)

There is nothing to feel ashamed about,corruption and skullduggery is not a preserve of only jamaican politicians,it happens all over the world,even here in the UK we recently experienced one of the biggest sleaze and political scandals,which resulted in numerous politicians helping the police with their enquiries.

What I feel ashamed about are the weak kneed traitors in the diaspora who call themselves "jamaican", but think that jamaica should lick uncle tom`s boots,even worse are the ones in jamaica that would willingly throw a jamaican to the wolves before any guilt has been confirmed,if it means saving their visas.

In little over 3 decades Jamaica seems to have made a seemless transition from subservience to the "mother country"...to total boot licking to "daddyusa",is that what they call "independence"...?
I always say on this board,and will repeat it again,jamaica was far from ready for independence,and even in another 10 decades of independence most jamaicans will still look for a father/mother figure country to revere.

**sistactry** · 05-21-2010, 02:20 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

<span style="font-weight: bold"> Based on my experience I don't think they are partisans. I see many of the leaders of the different groups go out of their way to pick sides.
</span>

thats funny u should say that, because in my experience, i find it the other way, they are mostly partisan, and just seeking out the best man/woman for the job!

when sistap did win, nuff ppl did have great hopes, that things would turn around, and for a while it did look good, Mobay Airport, Kgn Airport, etc....den when Bruce win, dem say yes, dat good to, give dem a chance now, a 18yrs pnp a run tings...but now~~

Bruce disappoint nuff people, and esp now~~

**neutral** · 05-21-2010, 02:23 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xavier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Based on my experience I don't think they are partisans. I see many of the leaders of the different groups go out of their way to pick sides.

</div></div>

In my opinion they all view things based on their political affiliations,none of these groups can be relied on to be objective about any political matters affecting jamaica.

**Peasie** · 05-21-2010, 02:31 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

Honestly, ok, VERY honestly, I cannot say I feel shame. I do feel a little numb to all the political drama that continues to spew out of my beloved Jamaica.

I left Jamaica nearly 30 years ago and essentially the politics-fear-violence-rumors-warra warra have not changed. Even the political names from 30 years ago are still being banded about! I feel like Rip Van Winkle waking up from a 30-year long sleep only to find that really I had only napped for a few seconds

**Emperah** · 05-21-2010, 02:37 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SistaCtry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it shameful yes Vanny, we only grace is that it not on the reg news channels, tank God

</div></div>
YET!

**mountaingal** · 05-21-2010, 02:49 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peasie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, ok, VERY honestly, I cannot say I feel shame. I do feel a little numb to all the political drama that continues to spew out of my beloved Jamaica.
</div></div>
ditto. not shamed. i do like observing alla di drama.

**sistactry** · 05-21-2010, 03:02 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

i feel u Peas, same ish, diff day~~~

boy, i can only pray that things will change, and we can be the shining star that we are capable of~ we have too many intelligent and decent jcans to have this thugs ruin our country and our rep...

**sistactry** · 05-21-2010, 03:05 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

u know MG, when dis ting buss, me a go hear ppl like at work a say to me sat, heyy ctry, me hear say ur PM into drugs and guns, cause him no waan leggo him bwoy,

den me haffe go get bringle and go explain ~~

**Wahalla** · 05-21-2010, 03:09 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

i dont feel ashame about anything in Jamaica....I rarely feel pride..

Diaspora groups strike me as something not of any interest or value .. Bit like the national prayer meeting , attending church, bible study psoj ect...

**evanovitch** · 05-21-2010, 03:17 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

i have to admit dat i neva feel shame about Jamaica...I am inordinately proud to be Jamaican ...even tek up fi yaad wen mi sistas who have neva returned since dem kill mi modda, lick out gainst yaad...fi real

i owe so much to that island in that given my start, the long way i have come is solely due to the socialisation, education, experiences afforded me in Jamaica...the good, the bad and the ugly...

I love Jamaica and things Jamaica wid a passion that even belies my understanding

i am not blind r immune to its shortcomings and am between a rock and a hard place as to how i can continue to help out down dere

the place has changed sooooo much as to make my contributions null an void , given the prejudices dat a returning citizen faces...but as i age and as i face the reality that my grandparents fears r still the fears that face the new generation, i am closer to putting my fears of personal safety aside an going bak to face the fire

Jah Know

**sistactry** · 05-21-2010, 03:42 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

and a dat me waan hear~~

**neutral** · 05-21-2010, 03:56 PM

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

Mixed Feelings About ‘Dudus’ Extradition Request

By David Mullings

I have been speaking with a number of Jamaicans living in the USA to get their opinions on the now famous extradition request of Christopher ‘Dudus’ Coke, the reputed “don” for Tivoli Gardens. The opinions are mixed as expected but some of the reasons may surprise readers.

Some Jamaicans believe that the USA is fitting the usual “bully” image that it has had in the past and abusing its size in comparison to Jamaica. Most of these people argue that they have never heard of Jamaica extraditing a criminal from the USA to face charges in Jamaica. Of course, when one asks them to name one person that Jamaica has ever requested for extradition from the USA, there is silence.

Maybe the Government of Jamaica should do some more requesting, but then that of course would only add to the burdens of an already burdened justice system.

Other Jamaicans I spoke with agreed with the request because the Jamaican Government over decades have refused to truly tackle the crime problem in earnest because they get too many votes. They however lament the fact that the USA has refused to send people to the Hague for war crimes even though requests have been generated and even recently has not responded to the guilty verdict of 22 CIA agents for kidnapping a man from Italy. The Obama Administration actually went as far as to say it was disappointed in the verdicts.

These Jamaicans point out that the USA has zero moral standing when it comes to requesting criminals from other countries to be tried if the USA itself does not play by the same rules. Yet another case of “do as I say, not as I do”, which was expected to change under Barack Obama is what they say.

One person also used this CIA kidnapping as an example of what could very well happen in the Dudus case if the Jamaican authorities reject the application or take too long. They indicated that it would certainly be a better outcome for the Prime Minister since he would be able to save face on both sides.

Another person I spoke with believed that as long as the USA kept sending criminals back to Jamaica, even when they have been in the USA since they were 7 years old, obviously learning their criminal ways in the USA, Jamaica should not honour ANY extradition requests.

Finally there are those who see clear cut on either side; Honour the request otherwise risk not getting any IMF money and losing international standing or “mek de USA gweh” because ‘Dudus’ is helping poor Jamaicans and the place would “mash up” and “war would bruk out” if he is extradited.

As expected, Jamaicans in the USA do not always agree but the varied reasoning certainly gives much to think about.

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use the bridges will be crumbling down piece by piece.
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Kadia says:
November 20, 2009 at 4:53 pm

Am i the only one who finds it funny how neither Jamaicans for Justice nor the church have any opinions on this one?

Its convenient that all of a sudden we are interested in “rights” when we ourselves tout the law and infringe on each others rights daily without any cares or concerns about rights.

The new buzz word seems to be “socioeconomic” we use it to defend and excuse the minority criminal elements amongst us, as if there is really any excuse to rape and decapitate a child(a trend thats rapidly on the rise). What happened to her rights?

Little did we notice that our rights were invaded when the Prime Minister of our country went on International Television and told the world that he and by extension all Jamaicans are prejudice, or when recently he told the Nation how much of a model community Tivoli Gardens was, now i don’t know about you, but that seems like and endorsement to me. In fact not only were we oblivious to it but we were in agreement.

Mr. Coke is not the only Jamaican who has rights we all do, but we are so willing to sacrifice our own rights, dignity and good standing for one man? like lambs to the slaughter we are willing to disrupt an entire country in order to “make sure” his rights are protected.

How far are we willing to go to make sure that our children get a good education? which is their right, how far are we willing to go to make sure that they get good medical care? which is their right, but we are willing to go to bat for Mr.Coke, who lets not kid ourselves we all know is not an innocent.

And lets be honest here people we would find any excuse(we are good at finding excuses)to argue not extraditing him. Jamaica has subscribed to the Declaration of Human Rights and we insist on making sure that Government adhere to it (Jamaicans for Justice especially), we also subscribed to the Extradition Treaty why not make sure that the Government adheres to that too?

The point? simply this, every time we ignore corruption in a party that we are affiliated with, we are infringing on our rights, every time we know of, protect or hide criminals we are infringing on our own rights, every time we allow Politicians to manipulate and lie (blatant) and not be accountable for their actions(inaction) we are infringing on our own rights and i could go on and on.
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Neutral Justice says:
November 21, 2009 at 1:38 am

This JLP administration has done the only thing possible, to stand up to the USA. However, honoring this request to send Dudus is wrong. He is not the main reason why this peace in West Kingston remains quiet for a while. There are bigger influences behind this guy. Who saw the face of Jim Brown in a coffin, what ID was used to certify that he was dead? There is something wrong. Lets see.
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OutOnBail says:
November 21, 2009 at 9:01 am

ZZZ, you are absolutely right, corruption runs through the entire fabric of the Jamaican society. However if good people keep pointing out the this corruption and the people responsible for it, we might start seeing a change in Jamaica. Yeah…I know this is a long shot but corruption loves nothing better than for good people to be silent.

Again, I know our “elected leaders” are primary players in the “Somalification” of Jamaica but we still have to resist…else the entire Jamaica society perishes.
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Rayal Johnson says:
November 22, 2009 at 10:00 pm

There should be concerns about the extradition of citizens of Jamaica to stand trial in the US if there are good reasons to think that these people will not be treated justly and also if the charges are not seen as proven, in Jamaica, beyond the shadow of a doubt by Jamaica’s legal system. However I am also concerned with the idea of citizens trying to prevent the order from being carried out if the charges are deemed true by the Jamaican Judicial System. On too many occasions citizens have created chaos when the legal system used the guidelines of the law to make a determination which may not be in harmony with the people’s opinion. Citizens, in disagreement, took the laws in their hands and committed destructive acts which serve only to erode both the fabric and the moral values of Jamaica. Care should be taken not to use emotions in making a decision and allow good wisdom to prevail.
About Mr Coke’s situation, I think the Jamaica Judicial System should make the determination if Dudus should be released to the US authorities and should base this purely on their conviction that he is guilty as charged.
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Reginald Dubwise says:
November 23, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Growing up on Rosseau road, my route to school [St Aloysius Boys School] took me down West street to Bumper Hall, east on Spanish Town Rd, pass May Pen Cemetary, Queens Theatre, Back a Wall, [name for the place the early rasta man use to burn wood and sell the coal] Cornation Market, then on to Parade.

Since then, Back a Wall has turned into Tivoli Gardens, Trench Town is now divided into Arnett Gardens and Wilton gardens [Rema] ,Queens Theater is long gone, May Pen cemetary is run down and delapidated, Cornation Market is a shadow of what it use to be.[ i have fond memories of going to market on sunday mornings]
Western Kingston has always have top class politicians as its’ representitives, [former Prime Minister Edward Seaga and the powerful Spalding brothers,i am not sure who the representitives are now] who have built up strong political bases, where the masses vote with their bellies instead of on issues,or what the MP has done to benifit the constituency. [infrastructure, Jobs etc.]
If you live in Tivoli you better not vote for PNP, or risk having to move out of the area, or even death.
Its a mistery, how these politician get elected over and over when they have done nothing to upgrade and enhance the community.
They have chosen to give the people fish instead of teaching them how to go fishing, which in turn has lull voters into becoming suckers for hand outs, when their respective political party is in power.
Now that the politcal land scape has change, the moniker “area don” could easily be “drug baron”. Some of the power politician had, as shifted to these hench men that use to do the dirty work
These so call area leaders now have the same or more sway over the constituency than the politician.
Voting with thier bellies is the situation the people of Western Kingston find themselves in when it comes to the extraditation of Dudus to the USA, after all, he is the one now handing out the fish not the politicians.
The politicians who are against extraditing Dudus to the USA are scared their connection with this known thug, who they have allowed to opperate with impunity for all these years, may be brought to light if this area don is extradited and brought to trail.
I truly believe that Jamaica will not get any better until the politics of ‘voting with your belly” is totally eradicated from the Jamaican political landscape.
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ElgeigoBaka says:
April 18, 2010 at 5:25 am

I am reading between the lines all the comment that have been made regarding the Extradition request for Mr Coke.

All the comment made so far potray a strong sense of bias regarding the decision of the ruling government.

Ask yourself the question, is it sufficient evidence to drag a suspect to court for trial without having enough evidence to present to the court? What evidence does America have regarding the suspect activity. A recorded conversation with an informer. Another attempt by the USA to Entrapt someone they heard having a conversation but having no practical evidence of his involvement. Does America have more evidence? Well?

The Jamaican government asked for full disclosure of it. Until that is submitted and it is carefully verified, no extradition regarding the suspect will be done. That’s the bottom line.

Please note!!!!! It does not matter how many extradition request were honoured in past. If the government wants to peer into it, the government can. Again it shows how disrespectful most people are for Jamaica and its government. What a shame.

It’s ignorance to talk about America as if America is a perfect from all crimes. Under the name of Super Power America has committed so many crime internationally and has sold so many illegal guns and drugs in the name of the CIA. It’s disgraceful.
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MGA says:
April 30, 2010 at 10:04 pm

The Dudus affair is just another black-eye on Jamaica’s international image. If we had any to begin with!!! Mr. Mullings argument about a mixed feelings is just not credible to say the least. That is said with the utmost respect in regards to his point of view.

We live in a world where we operate by contracts which we must adhere to. The Jamaican government signed the extradition treaty and must honour the conditions of the same. This is a very slippery road we are venturing on when we start to refuse to honour contracts.

19 other Jamaicans were removed from Jamaica in 2009 based on the same treaty. This charade is creating an impression that the government as something to hide!

A judicial matter has been turned into a political spectacle. This is a clear example of what we see in the Jamaican society. The police cannot apprehend a known criminal without having the streets blocked.

This matter needs to be settled in the court’s and not via the political bully pulpit.
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Jah Moon says:
May 14, 2010 at 5:59 pm

Send him to the States so my man can get a US visa! US has severely cut back on giving Jamaicans visas because of this fiasco. It really isn’t fair for the honest, hardworking Jamaicans who have to re-apply for a visa. It is not cheap

am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

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