am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

[neutral]

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

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OutOnbail says:
November 19, 2009 at 8:29 am

We Jamaicans have this acute ability to gravitate towards stupidity over common sense. Here we are swamped with crime, generated by politicians in league with area dons and “community organizers”. Yet when we get a chance to eliminate a known gun runner we hesitate. We need to ask ourselves how many good Jamaicans have died due to Dudus exportation of guns to Jamaica. Saying he helps people in the community is like saying Hitler was good for Germany. His holding of small self gratification events in the area is no substitute for the countless murders and pain he has caused Jamaica.

Even more crazy is Jamaicans trying to defend Dudus from being sent to the USA for trial. Using argument that the USA ignored request to send CIA personnel to Italy for trail is self defeating. Are we to holding on to people causing suffering to our family just to prove a “point” to the US? Is proving a point to the “great big USA” this important? Who is willing to sacrifice themselves or their love ones to prove this point? Well, this is exactly what we are flirting with. Seems to me we should export all our criminals and ask the US to send us psychiatrists.
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mike Beckles says:
November 19, 2009 at 12:02 pm

The shocking Ignorance of Jamaicans is breathtaking, I have read most of the comments here and as always I am more confident that Jamaica will never be lifted from the morass of crime and violence, with the type of people it has, where there is no wisdom the people perish, Jamaicans have got to be the most Arrogant Ignorant Nation on Earth.
To hear Jamaicans continue to make the argument that the youths have to be protected from Police is bordering on insanity, the young people need to stay away from, crime and they have nothing to fear from Law enforcement,The rule of law must carry the Day, all Jamaicans are quick to talk about their rights , but they have no idea of their responsibilities, freedom is never free.

Secondly the Argument that a slime ball small time thug is keeping the peace and helping people, shows the level of depravity of Jamaicans, Give me Barabas,that’s their mentality ,this Nation will perish because as a people Jamaicans care nothing about their children’s future they live for now, let me eat a food now, they have no patriotism, or civic pride all they care about is lewd sexuality, drunkeness, and gluttony.
They are quite prepared to sell the Nation’s future down the drain for a bellyful without a thought to what kind of Country they are leaving their Children.this my dear friends is the heart of what ails our once beautiful Country,.
All are culpable and the corruption is palpable, and yes the Police Force has corrupt members but it also is the only Agency in Jamaica that has any kind of transparency,or is subject to any evaluation of consequence ,so of course if one is looking one will find something wrong,and rightly the Police needs to change and become more professional.
As a past member I salute that move , however there needs to be a top down review of all agencies starting from the Prime Minister’s Office.
Lastly the Golding Administration , is finishing the destruction of our Nation, the destruction started by Edward Seaga with his Syrian Enclave type Politics, the same garrison,Politics practiced in the Middle East, The Party of Bustamante, and Hugh Lawson Shearer is almost now gone, the Labor Party is now a disgrace, and the opposition is hardly any better.
Golding is lost and bereft of ideas ,or will, the ship that is Jamaica is floundering and will in time crash on the rocks of crime, his challenge to debate the Opposition last week is indeed telling, but even if he was to debate , what would Portia be able to add.
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Corve DaCosta says:
November 19, 2009 at 12:08 pm

I’m not surprised. Jamaica is gone to the dogs.
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AKJ says:
November 19, 2009 at 1:11 pm

Why the heck is “Dudus” still in Jamaica. Dear God man! Why can’t Jamaica see that if this man is not extradited that simply means no IMF money and and even bigger drop in the Criminal Perception index. Why does Jamaica allow one man to let all this happen. Mark my words; if he is not gone before the end of the year. The entire nation of Jamaica will suffer because of it. Examples: US, UK & Canadian Visas will be severely reduced to Jamaican citizens (next to none, and causing us to waist our money at embassy). No debt write off from the UK especially. And all Jamaicans honest or not will be subjected to stringent screenings at airports or other points of arrival internationally. Our exchange rate compared to all the big economies will be diminished further. All of this will be done unspoken. If and when Jamaica gets any worst it will result in verbal & monetary sanctions against the country. I left Jamaica in 1996 and am now an American Citizen. I will never visit Jamaica, the area I grew up is a notorious gang area, and I would never subject my wife or my children to it. If Jamaica does not eradicate crime and corruption from the country, it will remain a doomed nation for years to come. It will become the Somalia of the Caribbean.
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Maria W says:
November 20, 2009 at 10:45 am

This is ridiculous. In a country which suffers from such high crime how can we be squeamish about extraditing one of the biggest alleged criminals.

The US as far as I can see was and has been very patient in requesting his extradition as some of his crimes took place years ago. This is the problem with Jamaica, our politicians are unwilling or incapable of dealing with the monster called ‘crime’ which they created.

I agree with the comment that the US might be doing Bruce a favour if it “kidnaps” Dudus. Maybe they could send some of the CIA agents from the Italian case on the mission.
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ZZZ says:
November 20, 2009 at 4:13 pm

OUTonbail, I strongly agree with your comment but people are forgetting also there is a lot of people in jail in Jamaica because they decided to stand up to the “Jim Brown regime” yes, I know a lot of them and paid for it with their freedom. This regime has politicians/policemen/judges/lawyers in their pockets, and these people would not like to see him go to the US to face any charges because the bridges will be crumbling down piece by piece.

http://gleanerblogs.com/diasporaspeaks/?p=44

[neutral]

No to dudus extradition,no to us demands

No to Dudus extradition, no to US demands

While the US continues to subject Jamaica to its superpower one-upmanship over the Christopher “Dudus” Coke affair, many Jamaicans continue to sleepwalk with “matter” in their eyes concerning that and other global geopolitical developments.

Although it will always be true that there are none as blind as those who will not see, and although no amount of preaching, teaching or writing can inject common sense into brainwashed “sheeple”, those who love Jamaica and its people must continue to try to rouse Jamaican sleepers from their socio-political slumber.

Based on the talk on Jamaican streets, radio-show and television comments, Internet blogs and newspaper articles dealing with the Coke case, certain camps among Jamaicans and people with vested interests in Jamaica can be identified. Yet, one gets the impression that among the majority of Jamaicans who should be concerned about this case, namely, the poor and the common people, there is a “couldn’t care less” attitude and outright apathy, leading this writer to wonder when we will all wake up.

The US game of imperialism has utilised the same strategies with slight modifications throughout its history. Strategy number one is for the US to give up the least and gain the most, using every method from deception to brute force. Not enough Jamaicans read US history, especially the massacre of the Native Americans, perhaps because Jamaicans became completely mesmerised by US propaganda movies featuring Indians and lawmen.

Too few Jamaicans understand that the US plants groups and individuals in Jamaica to orchestrate US policies, including the destabilisation of Jamaica, as seen in the Michael Manley era. Very often those US puppets are Jamaicans – including politicians, professionals and people from any level – who are bribed, blackmailed or brutalised to play their parts.The greatest need, therefore, is for this camp of Jamaicans, the innocent ignoramuses, to be taught by politicians, preachers, pedagogues and people who know the truth about US imperialism. If those Jamaicans are not duly educated, then it will be “dog nyam wi suppa”.

US strategy number two is a kind of distraction that approaches deception but which runs much deeper than any one issue or development. The Dudus debacle is a classic case. The US always uses groups and individuals to do its dirty work and then disposes of those suckers. The JLP did some dirty work for America during the Manley years and it might be “sucker time”.

There might be connections between the Buju Banton arrest, the courageous stand of Prime Minister Golding against the homosexuality that the US is promoting worldwide, and the Coke case. Thus certain Jamaican factions, some diaspora entities, and of course, those clandestine forces promoting US interests online and elsewhere, are now swarming like vultures toward this Dudus distraction to help the US accomplish its hidden agendas.

This camp containing Jamaicans and non-Jamaicans, the licky-lickey lucre lovers are those for whom the US can do no wrong and for whom Jamaica can do nothing right. They lack analytical ability, spout overworked clichés and paddle in ad hominem Portia-potties. It will take enlightenment from Yeshua Messiah, or timely repentance when their turn comes to be US suckers, to help that camp. Yet, every single Jamaican is important and should be helped to see the light, if at all possible.

There is also a guild of pathetic pragmatists who deliberately support US policies that they know to be immoral and evil, simply because it is the “wise” thing to do to remain in US favour so as not to lose business, lose visa, or otherwise suffer recrimination. This camp makes it easy for the US to perpetrate its strategy of using Trojan horse gifts to manipulate and exploit Jamaica. They grab at straw arguments to support extradition for Coke and proffer non sequitur ramblings and biased rancours against PM Golding and the Jamaican government. Some are opportunists who play the Coke conundrum for political points, while others try to curry US favour.

It is not totally unwise to play it safe at times, but members of this camp must remember that imperialism is no respecter of persons. It would be better for this guild to remain quietly neutral instead of bad-mouthing Jamaica. Private sector groups, Opposition spokespersons, church organisations and media houses that kowtow to the US position in this Coke affair might be bordering on treachery, especially when some of them played similar roles in the Manley years.

The extradition treaty between Jamaica and the US is lopsided and pragmatically flawed. It smells like an agreement between entities, one of which is more equal than the other. In its Narcotics Report the US admits that 70 per cent of guns used in crimes in Jamaica come from the US, yet there is still only a one-way extradition from the weaker nation to the other. Most of the agreements between the US and other nations mentioned in that report simply give licence for the US to have free run in those countries which in turn give up their sovereignty to US imperialism. Jamaica already suffers too much from such manipulation and exploitation from European, North American, and other nations and NGO groups.

This fight for Jamaican sovereignty and justice for Coke should not be a Golding gladiator bout but a cause in which every single conscientious Jamaican should stand up against US bullying.

Thank God for the conscientious crew that analyses this extradition issue from the standpoint of Godly justice and divine righteousness. It includes the Rev Al Miller, PM Golding, and others. If it were not for the spectre of imperialism, grounded in social Darwinism, overshadowing this issue, long ago there would have been delegations of diplomats from each country meeting behind closed doors to resolve this issue respectably, and there would not have been that US one-upmanship displayed in their Narcotics Report.

Too much “sufferation” among Jamaicans is being caused by foreigners. Careful analysis of the Dudus case will help Jamaicans learn many vital lessons about how they are being exploited from without. Wake up and live, Jamaicans!

http://glbtqja.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/no-to-dudus-extradition-no-to-us-demands/

[WiseJamaican]

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">#

#
OutOnbail says:
November 19, 2009 at 8:29 am

We Jamaicans have this acute ability to gravitate towards stupidity over common sense. Here we are swamped with crime, generated by politicians in league with area dons and “community organizers”. Yet when we get a chance to eliminate a known gun runner we hesitate. We need to ask ourselves how many good Jamaicans have died due to Dudus exportation of guns to Jamaica. Saying he helps people in the community is like saying Hitler was good for Germany. His holding of small self gratification events in the area is no substitute for the countless murders and pain he has caused Jamaica.

Even more crazy is Jamaicans trying to defend Dudus from being sent to the USA for trial. Using argument that the USA ignored request to send CIA personnel to Italy for trail is self defeating. Are we to holding on to people causing suffering to our family just to prove a “point” to the US? Is proving a point to the “great big USA” this important? Who is willing to sacrifice themselves or their love ones to prove this point? Well, this is exactly what we are flirting with. Seems to me we should export all our criminals and ask the US to send us psychiatrists.
#
mike Beckles says:
November 19, 2009 at 12:02 pm

The shocking Ignorance of Jamaicans is breathtaking, I have read most of the comments here and as always I am more confident that Jamaica will never be lifted from the morass of crime and violence, with the type of people it has, where there is no wisdom the people perish, Jamaicans have got to be the most Arrogant Ignorant Nation on Earth.
To hear Jamaicans continue to make the argument that the youths have to be protected from Police is bordering on insanity, the young people need to stay away from, crime and they have nothing to fear from Law enforcement,The rule of law must carry the Day, all Jamaicans are quick to talk about their rights , but they have no idea of their responsibilities, freedom is never free.

Secondly the Argument that a slime ball small time thug is keeping the peace and helping people, shows the level of depravity of Jamaicans, Give me Barabas,that’s their mentality ,this Nation will perish because as a people Jamaicans care nothing about their children’s future they live for now, let me eat a food now, they have no patriotism, or civic pride all they care about is lewd sexuality, drunkeness, and gluttony.
They are quite prepared to sell the Nation’s future down the drain for a bellyful without a thought to what kind of Country they are leaving their Children.this my dear friends is the heart of what ails our once beautiful Country,.
All are culpable and the corruption is palpable, and yes the Police Force has corrupt members but it also is the only Agency in Jamaica that has any kind of transparency,or is subject to any evaluation of consequence ,so of course if one is looking one will find something wrong,and rightly the Police needs to change and become more professional.
As a past member I salute that move , however there needs to be a top down review of all agencies starting from the Prime Minister’s Office.
Lastly the Golding Administration , is finishing the destruction of our Nation, the destruction started by Edward Seaga with his Syrian Enclave type Politics, the same garrison,Politics practiced in the Middle East, The Party of Bustamante, and Hugh Lawson Shearer is almost now gone, the Labor Party is now a disgrace, and the opposition is hardly any better.
Golding is lost and bereft of ideas ,or will, the ship that is Jamaica is floundering and will in time crash on the rocks of crime, his challenge to debate the Opposition last week is indeed telling, but even if he was to debate , what would Portia be able to add.
#
Corve DaCosta says:
November 19, 2009 at 12:08 pm

I’m not surprised. Jamaica is gone to the dogs.
#
AKJ says:
November 19, 2009 at 1:11 pm

Why the heck is “Dudus” still in Jamaica. Dear God man! Why can’t Jamaica see that if this man is not extradited that simply means no IMF money and and even bigger drop in the Criminal Perception index. Why does Jamaica allow one man to let all this happen. Mark my words; if he is not gone before the end of the year. The entire nation of Jamaica will suffer because of it. Examples: US, UK &amp; Canadian Visas will be severely reduced to Jamaican citizens (next to none, and causing us to waist our money at embassy). No debt write off from the UK especially. And all Jamaicans honest or not will be subjected to stringent screenings at airports or other points of arrival internationally. Our exchange rate compared to all the big economies will be diminished further. All of this will be done unspoken. If and when Jamaica gets any worst it will result in verbal &amp; monetary sanctions against the country. I left Jamaica in 1996 and am now an American Citizen. I will never visit Jamaica, the area I grew up is a notorious gang area, and I would never subject my wife or my children to it. If Jamaica does not eradicate crime and corruption from the country, it will remain a doomed nation for years to come. It will become the Somalia of the Caribbean.
#
Maria W says:
November 20, 2009 at 10:45 am

This is ridiculous. In a country which suffers from such high crime how can we be squeamish about extraditing one of the biggest alleged criminals.

The US as far as I can see was and has been very patient in requesting his extradition as some of his crimes took place years ago. This is the problem with Jamaica, our politicians are unwilling or incapable of dealing with the monster called ‘crime’ which they created.

I agree with the comment that the US might be doing Bruce a favour if it “kidnaps” Dudus. Maybe they could send some of the CIA agents from the Italian case on the mission.
#
ZZZ says:
November 20, 2009 at 4:13 pm

OUTonbail, I strongly agree with your comment but people are forgetting also there is a lot of people in jail in Jamaica because they decided to stand up to the “Jim Brown regime” yes, I know a lot of them and paid for it with their freedom. This regime has politicians/policemen/judges/lawyers in their pockets, and these people would not like to see him go to the US to face any charges because the bridges will be crumbling down piece by piece.


http://gleanerblogs.com/diasporaspeaks/?p=44 </div></div>

A nuh ebry fish a sea a shark

[Peasie]

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WiseJamaican</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A nuh ebry fish a sea a shark </div></div>

[Xavier]

Re: am curious...who on here in di Diaspora feel shame etc at

I made an error..I meant to say &quot;Not pick sides&quot;...DWL

[sisterfire]

Re: No to dudus extradition,no to us demands

Man, I write one eloquent response and it gone...

Ok, I live in the States most of my life, but home once a year, usually...

I'm not ashamed of a thing. I have friends from Colombia whose family is in the judiciary -- bulletproof car, bodyguard, and so on -- and they're not ashamed. So why me?

I'm sad, though. Sad that Jamaica, land we love, is about to come like Colombia, where civil society only survives when the narcotraffickers allow it.

And yes, the US is a problem, from they destabilize the Manley govt. and flood the country with guns. I'm seeing all the defenses of the Don as if it's some kind of anti-imperial move. Defend Font Hill, defend the agricultural sector, make the tourist industry pay taxes and their workers -- those are anti-imperial moves I can get behind.

As for the extradition, everyone's in the wrong: US, Govt., political party, police, gunman, and so on. Some wrong from long time, some more recent. But in the present moment, if the govt. can't turn the people of TG towards the state, and away from the Don, you can just change the name of the place to Jamaicolombia and be done.

And I don't belong to no party and no Diaspora organization. These are just my worried views...I defend the ordinary struggling people of Jamaica all the time, and not going stop over this.

[FinanciallySmart]

Re: No to dudus extradition,no to us demands

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sisterfire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, I write one eloquent response and it gone...

Ok, I live in the States most of my life, but home once a year, usually...

I'm not ashamed of a thing. I have friends from Colombia whose family is in the judiciary -- bulletproof car, bodyguard, and so on -- and they're not ashamed. So why me?

I'm sad, though. Sad that Jamaica, land we love, is about to come like Colombia, where civil society only survives when the narcotraffickers allow it.

And yes, the US is a problem, from they destabilize the Manley govt. and flood the country with guns. I'm seeing all the defenses of the Don as if it's some kind of anti-imperial move. Defend Font Hill, defend the agricultural sector, make the tourist industry pay taxes and their workers -- those are anti-imperial moves I can get behind.

As for the extradition, everyone's in the wrong: US, Govt., political party, police, gunman, and so on. Some wrong from long time, some more recent. But in the present moment, if the govt. can't turn the people of TG towards the state, and away from the Don, you can just change the name of the place to Jamaicolombia and be done.

And I don't belong to no party and no Diaspora organization. These are just my worried views...I defend the ordinary struggling people of Jamaica all the time, and not going stop over this.

</div></div>

Jamaica will never been like Columbia. This what happen has open the eyes of the young people who want change and who will do their best to have the change they need.