Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

BlackStar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is the Nigerian government defending the interests of the people? If Nigerian leaders don't care, why should the international media/community? Really, what is stopping leadership from passing laws and enforcing them? After all, Nigeria is an extremely wealthy country and doesn't have to beg anyone for assistance.</div></div>

You mean like what Manley did and Mugabe is doing?
What do you think would happen if they did? - CIA orchestrated REGIME CHANGE.

<span style="font-size: 8pt"><span style="font-style: italic">Rhetorical questions, but you get my drift.</span></span>
NO..tell me whats rhetorical?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The oil companies just ignore it. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">The lawmakers do not care </span></span>and people must live with pollution daily. The situation is now worse than it was 30 years ago. Nothing is changing. When I see the efforts that are being made in the US I feel a great sense of sadness at the double standards. What they do in the US or in Europe is very different.&quot;

&quot;We see frantic efforts being made to stop the spill in the US,&quot; said Nnimo Bassey, Nigerian head of Friends of the Earth International. &quot;But in Nigeria, oil companies largely ignore their spills, cover them up and destroy people's livelihood and environments. The Gulf spill can be seen as a metaphor for what is happening daily in the oilfields of Nigeria and other parts of Africa.

&quot;This has gone on for 50 years in Nigeria. People depend completely on the environment for their drinking water and farming and fishing. They are amazed that the president of the US can be making speeches daily, because in Nigeria people there would not hear a whimper,&quot; he said.

<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">It is impossible to know how much oil is spilled in the Niger delta each year because the companies and <span style="color: #CC0000">the government </span>keep that secret. </span></span>However, two major independent investigations over the past four years suggest that as much is spilled at sea, in the swamps and on land every year as has been lost in the Gulf of Mexico so far.

...

&quot;Oil spills and the dumping of oil into waterways has been extensive, often poisoning drinking water and destroying vegetation. These incidents have become common due to the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">lack of laws and enforcement measures </span></span>within the existing political regime...&quot;

...

In Nigeria, both companies and government have come to treat an extraordinary level of oil spills as the norm...

...

&quot;It is clear that BP has been blocking progressive legislation, both in the US and here. In Nigeria, they have been living above the law. They are now clearly a danger to the planet. The dangers of this happening again and again are high. They must be taken to the international court of justice.&quot;</div></div> [/quote]

The Government is a pawn, and does not reflect the will of the people, the government was put in charge by the west and are their stoogies....the will of the people has and is being undermined and usurped.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the Nigerian government is the principal owner of ALL of the major upstream companies operating in Nigeria. They own 55% of Shell Nigeria, 60% of Agip, 60% of Mobil and 60% of Chevron.</div></div>

Propaganda - do not believe it for a second. They are principal owner in name only - titular/nominal.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The oil companies bring millions and millions of tax dollars into Nigeria and where does it go? The place should look like a swampy version of Bahrain by now, but no...its all in numbered accounts in Swiss banks. Whos fault is that? theres no colonial government to blame now.

This country is potentially one of the jewels of Africa, yet is so corrupt from top to bottom that it is virtually ungovernable... the blame for the mess doesnt lie with foreigners, it lies with the Nigerians who are too busy lining their own pockets to care about their own country and their fellow man.

If a tiny amount of the potential oil wealth of this country could be put properly into health, education and infrastructure for the population, Nigeria could be an African superpower within a decade. Sadly, it'll never happen and the divide between obsenely rich and poor will continue to grow.

I'm not normally such a rabid extremist, but the injustice and poverty caused by such greed and corruption in this superb country makes me incredibly angry and blaming it on anyone other than the Nigerian governing class is just patronising and insane.</div></div>

Sure blame the victims..
How can I line my own pockets if the money is in your banks?
Who is in possession of the Funds/Money?
_________________________

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamaica_dreamin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! Another one! I don't recall seeing this one on the news </div></div>

And you most likely wont.
because here is what the media wants you to think in your subliminal mind -
Its &quot;N&quot; suffering who really cares, its their own fault, they choose thieving politicians who have no sense, you know they are not ready for self-rule.

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A comment on the same article in The Guardian - figures would have to be verified.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">the Nigerian government </span></span>is the principal owner of ALL of the major upstream companies operating in Nigeria. They own 55% of Shell Nigeria, 60% of Agip, 60% of Mobil and 60% of Chevron. </div></div> </div></div>

lawd sumadi finally hear wha mi been saying fi years pan yah.... when mi tell unno none ah unno listen.. add to dis.. shell Nigeria is also owned further by various nigerian entities... But it is easy to condemn shell, chevron ect.....

Obasanja made the point that withing the Shell organisation they account for every penny.. once out of shell there is no accountability...

But mi naw talk mi nuh wan get call hidiat no more! </div></div>

You really need to read Capitalism and slavery by Eric Williams, you are sooooo faaaaar gooone.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">“Where political sovereignty has been conceded but economic power remains untouched, equality remains a myth, social justice proves unattainable and even freedom becomes an ambiguous phenomenon.”</span></span>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAX2qh7xkZM

[johnnycakes]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???


“Where political sovereignty has been conceded but economic power remains untouched, equality remains a myth, social justice proves unattainable and even freedom becomes an ambiguous phenomenon.”


Truer words have never been spoken and these words apply to Nigeria, to Jamaica, to the United Snakes and to most of the world's people.

Thank you franksterr

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
“Where political sovereignty has been conceded but economic power remains untouched, equality remains a myth, social justice proves unattainable and even freedom becomes an ambiguous phenomenon.”


Truer words have never been spoken and these words apply to Nigeria, to Jamaica, to the United Snakes and to most of the world's people.

Thank you franksterr </div></div>

Thats Manley's words at International Conference in support of the peoples of Zimbabwe and Namibia, in Maputo, Mozambique, May 17, 1977

[Wahalla]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A comment on the same article in The Guardian - figures would have to be verified.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #CC0000">the Nigerian government </span></span>is the principal owner of ALL of the major upstream companies operating in Nigeria. They own 55% of Shell Nigeria, 60% of Agip, 60% of Mobil and 60% of Chevron. </div></div> </div></div>

lawd sumadi finally hear wha mi been saying fi years pan yah.... when mi tell unno none ah unno listen.. add to dis.. shell Nigeria is also owned further by various nigerian entities... But it is easy to condemn shell, chevron ect.....

Obasanja made the point that withing the Shell organisation they account for every penny.. once out of shell there is no accountability...

But mi naw talk mi nuh wan get call hidiat no more! </div></div>

You really need to read Capitalism and slavery by Eric Williams, you are sooooo faaaaar gooone.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">“Where political sovereignty has been conceded but economic power remains untouched, equality remains a myth, social justice proves unattainable and even freedom becomes an ambiguous phenomenon.”</span></span>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAX2qh7xkZM </div></div>

Ive read it... A marxist interpretation of history.. a very good methodology of analysing history... And actually beleive it was a classic for its time.. An acedemic tour de force.. However it is I relevance has diminished...Then who sponsored Eric Williams to write it ? And exactly what did Eric Williams do when he was Prime Minister ? The proof is not in the theory it is in the actual practice...
..

Concepts that Eric Williams practice of leadership. funny enough is closer to mine that you would think.. A carribean identity a Creole Identity per say, a level of goverment control, a boyant private sector, fiscal responsibility.. Not shouting of rhetoric popularist or other wise and making that the center of policy.. See how he dealt with the coup attempt.. Or when Venezuela attempted a border incident who did he turn to ???? Real Politics not rhetoric...

He beleived in seperation of goverment from the judicary, party politics as a determiner of people rights, not single parties incorperated into the goverment.. He did have his arrogance though... He discarded incompetence of socialism when it did not work, he invested in schools...

Examine Eric Williams writing, his governance and you find notlind acceptance of &quot;socialism&quot; or black nationalism, nor pan africanism.. a b the search and a journey to wards a Caribbean identity Creole identity, Carribean thought, not Castro,, Not Manley but good competent governance.. The man discard CLR James by 71 I beleive... The man was closer to Gordon Brown than Fidel Castro!

I follow events in the delta fairly closely... I may go back there in the near future... Yesterday I posted a report from Nigeria.. NNPC is bankrupt... How will it then finance it commitments to develop and meet its finacial obligations to its partners ... The history of Nigerian oil is facinating and the first Coup.. The Biafran war..

Out of it came one man who took the surrender, made the deal that prevented the butchery of the Ibo and led to reconciliation... He took over the rains over goverment, handed it back to Civilian Rule,,won an election, stepped back when forced to do that.. Went back to university in his 70's.. so when this man talks I lsiten... Obasanja may be no saint...but he is a practical man...


Blame big corporations capitalism all you want there is a thread of incompetence, corruption and beleif in rhetoric however impractical rhetoric bad governance, ... Corrpection and I wont bore you with my experences in Nigeria, because it is autobiographical hence no revelevance but just say that the 20% of GDP that is estimated to be corruption in Africa is laughable in Nigeria.

A card player knows you play the hand you have, you play the odds... One cannot play the hand you would like to have.. Rhetoric does not mean much in real poltics..

I pointed out at the begining of the oil spill that I did not think that the GOM was any more worst than the Delta.

Manley was incompetent compared to Eric Williams or even his father....

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

Ooops...sorry see next post.

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

Wahalla
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Ive read it... A marxist interpretation of history.. a very good methodology of analysing history... And actually beleive it was a classic for its time.. An acedemic tour de force.. However it is I relevance has diminished...Then who sponsored Eric Williams to write it ? And exactly what did Eric Williams do when he was Prime Minister ? The proof is not in the theory it is in the actual practice...
..
Concepts that Eric Williams practice of leadership. funny enough is closer to mine that you would think.. A carribean identity a Creole Identity per say, a level of goverment control, a boyant private sector, fiscal responsibility.. Not shouting of rhetoric popularist or other wise and making that the center of policy.. See how he dealt with the coup attempt.. Or when Venezuela attempted a border incident who did he turn to ???? Real Politics not rhetoric...
He beleived in seperation of goverment from the judicary, party politics as a determiner of people rights, not single parties incorperated into the goverment.. He did have his arrogance though... He discarded incompetence of socialism when it did not work, he invested in schools...
</div></div>

Are you saying Manley was against &quot;Investing in schools, seperation of goverment from the judicary, party politics as a determiner of people rights,.....A carribean identity a Creole Identity per say, a level of goverment control, a boyant private sector, fiscal responsibility.......&quot; and for &quot;single parties incorperated into the goverment&quot;?? if so provide a link.

Eric Williams policies face open revolt in 1970, failed in 1973, almost the very year Manley came to power, Oil is what saved his government...Like Busta and Norman, Eric enjoyed much popularity during the boom years(50's &amp; 60's), but when the lean times came he had oil(as a support to fall back on), and in order to stay in power he had to align himself with the more radical and socialist leaning black power movement. In a sense he came back to his roots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">
In 1973, in the face of a collapsing economy Eric Williams was prepared to resign as Prime Minister. However, the outbreak of the 1973 Arab-Israeli War led to the recovery of oil prices and Williams remained in office. The high oil prices of the 1970s and early 1980s led to an oil boom which resulted in a large increase in salaries, standards of living, and corruption.</span></div></div>

http://books.google.com/books?id=nTMqWPa...ogy&amp;f=false

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Examine Eric Williams writing, his governance and you find notlind acceptance of &quot;socialism&quot; or black nationalism, nor pan africanism.. a b the search and a journey to wards a Caribbean identity Creole identity, Carribean thought, not Castro,, Not Manley but good competent governance.. The man discard CLR James by 71 I beleive... The man was closer to Gordon Brown than Fidel Castro!</div></div>


His struggle against Neo-colonialism and fight for Nationalism and that Caribbean identity/Creole identity is Black Nationalism...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic"> Between 1968 and 1970 the Black Power movement
gained strength in Trinidad and Tobago. The
leadership of the movement developed within the
Guild of Undergraduates at the Saint Augustine,
Trinidad and Tobago|St. Augustine Campus of the
University of the West Indies. Led by Geddes
Grainger, the National Joint Action Committee
joined up with Trade Union|trade unionists led by
George Weekes of the Oilfields Workers' Trade
Union Basdeo Panday, then a young trade union
lawyer and activist. The Black Power Revolution
got started during the 1970 Carnival. In response
to the challenge, <span style="color: #FF0000">Williams countered with a
broadcast entitled I am for Black Power.</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">He
introduced a 5% levy to fund unemployment
reduction and established the first locally-owned
commercial bank.</span> However, this intervention had
little impact on the protests.</span></div></div>

http://www.short-biographies.com/biographies/EricWilliams.html

The quote in bold type looks socialist to me.
The quote in red speaks for itself.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic"> With the notion of black consciousness at its height shortly after the decolonisation process had begun, Williams openly embraced
the Black Power Movement and made three speeches in which he sought to identify himself with the aims of the movement.</span></div></div>

http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/orders_list.asp?show=365

Check that memory of yours Wahalla.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I follow events in the delta fairly closely... I may go back there in the near future... Yesterday I posted a report from Nigeria.. NNPC is bankrupt... How will it then finance it commitments to develop and meet its finacial obligations to its partners ... The history of Nigerian oil is facinating and the first Coup.. The Biafran war..

Out of it came one man who took the surrender, made the deal that prevented the butchery of the Ibo and led to reconciliation... He took over the rains over goverment, handed it back to Civilian Rule,,won an election, stepped back when forced to do that.. Went back to university in his 70's.. so when this man talks I lsiten... Obasanja may be no saint...but he is a practical man...</div></div>


Are you saying the Ibos werent butchered?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Blame big corporations capitalism all you want there is a thread of incompetence, corruption and beleif in rhetoric however impractical rhetoric bad governance, ... Corrpection and I wont bore you with my experences in Nigeria, because it is autobiographical hence no revelevance but just say that the 20% of GDP that is estimated to be corruption in Africa is laughable in Nigeria.

A card player knows you play the hand you have, you play the odds... One cannot play the hand you would like to have.. Rhetoric does not mean much in real poltics..

I pointed out at the begining of the oil spill that I did not think that the GOM was any more worst than the Delta.

Manley was incompetent compared to Eric Williams or even his father.... </div></div>


You fight the battles you must, with the tools you have..Is there another choice??
Yeah there maybe a thread of incompetence, but there are reams and reams of evidence of neo-colonial interventionist policies and malfeasance to the tune of billions of dollars and thousands of man hours.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

Maybe Eric Williams did do the right thing.
the 2009 Human Development index lists T&amp;T at #64 just behind St Kitts &amp; Nevis.
Perhaps if he had a socialist economy and with all that oil wealth he could have put T&amp;T ahead of Cuba which is at #51.

[Wahalla]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

Eric Williams subverted Black Power... neatly.... Examine his postion before the attempted coup...Who was the coup attempt to over throw ??? Eric Williams.. He used the forces of security to mointor and supress these movements... Why did he break with CLR James who saw the coup attempt from a trorskyite perspective ???? T

He leveved a tax on business that is not socialism, that is what all goverments do!.. He did not attempt to take them over.. As I said numerous occasions goverment tax, thats what they are good at.. Their other function is to legistlate to regulate the functionalities of the economics... He took some control of the commanding heights of the economy.. And these were less than successful..

Black nationalism was not what Eric Williams was about.. He used it to get his agenda when the re was not choice..


Where did I say that Ibos wernt butchered ????..
During the war the ibos were butchered and they butchered...At the end of the war there was an amazing level of forgiveness that is unique in Africa.. It demonstrated an African solution... And at the center was Obasanja one man made a difference!!!! A solider did a Mandela thiry years before Mandela...

The strange nexus the Biafran war when the Brits and Russians supported the Govement, and all the rest supported the Biafran.. (BP got kicjed out after wards! God I love those Nigerians ! That was the ultimate 419 scam


Start at the point we are not at the point we were 50 years ago. Times have changed When Eric williams wrote Capitalism and slavery there was a need for us to align ourself that manner. , now does a critical analysis of the evolution from a fuedal society to capitalism against a bacck drop of evolving to independence the perfect paradgim for development, .. See his speeched ..Africa is not anywhere else it is not black america light , it is hundreds of disperate experiences and no single solution fits.. That is my experience in the delta...Libya, Liberia, on the big rivers, Cote Du'Ivore, ect doing buiness doing investments, ...

Black nationalism as we see it in yanki dom.. But what do I know I am too far gone to believe in messanic paradgims... or one solution fits all or using Africans as proxies for white peoples ideologicals misinterpretations of history.... My experience is not via Utube either it is wading in the mud in Port Harcourt, in Warri on fast boats on the delta, at bush bars with working girls.. But it is only incidental...

My contention is that ideology is passe! yesterdays politics.. What Nigeria needs from oil is the NNPC to be efficent.. It has the human capital to do just that.. And out of the NNPC will come the solution not me telling Africans how to fix it...an Nigerians not yankis cubans, kamunists, christians, Nigerians! But I am too far gone now aint I..?

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

Wahalla

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eric Williams subverted Black Power... neatly.... Examine his postion before the attempted coup...Who was the coup attempt to over throw ??? Eric Williams.. He used the forces of security to mointor and supress these movements... Why did he break with CLR James who saw the coup attempt from a trorskyite perspective ???? T</div></div>

If he was subverting Black Power he did a very damn good job, better than most, in ONE full swipe with the aid of oil wealth he fullfiled many of Manley's socialist agenda
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Williams argued that his administration had created 1,523 black small farmers, had encouraged small businesses in manufacturing and tourism and had boosted free education and training. He insisted: “We have unceasingly sought to control or at least alleviate the unemployment which we inherited...” Still, the issue was larger than that: It was about greater people participation in the critical economic sectors. Interestingly, in the decade after the Black Power flare-up, Williams <span style="font-weight: bold">launched initiatives for localisation of the oil industry, </span>a thrust partly prompted by trade unionist George Weekes’ “Texaco Must Go” campaign. <span style="font-weight: bold">Even earlier than that—on July 1, 1970, to be exact—Williams localised the Bank of London and Montreal, which he turned into the National Commercial Bank, a forerunner to the current First Citizens’ Bank.</span>

Williams also boosted the <span style="font-weight: bold">cooperative sector</span>, and, before long, outlined a five-year plan aimed at <span style="font-weight: bold">giving nationals a larger piece of the national pie</span>. That, of course, had been a rallying call of Daaga’s Black Power revolution. Williams termed his agenda “national reconstruction”. He defined it as “<span style="font-weight: bold">increasing the degree of national control over the national economy.”</span> Diversification of the economy and full employment were other hallmarks of the Williams post-Black Power programme. <span style="font-weight: bold">“Workers would be encouraged to play a more positive role in the economy of the country,” </span>he vowed. He was adamant that “the claims of black people to social justice, economic dignity and a fuller life would be unequivocally supported and encouraged by my Government.” Forty years later, Daaga has stated this dreams and aspirations were now being fulfilled. Manning, Williams’ successor, has plucked an incident of the heady Black Power days to tar Daaga, in the latter’s makeover as electoral foe of the PNM. In all of this, truth is becoming a major casualty.
</span></div></div>
http://guardian.co.tt/news/politics/2010...and-black-power

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He leveved a tax on business that is not socialism, that is what all goverments do!.. He did not attempt to take them over.. As I said numerous occasions goverment tax, thats what they are good at.. Their other function is to legistlate to regulate the functionalities of the economics... He took some control of the commanding heights of the economy.. And these were less than successful..</div></div>

When Manley levied taxes for NHT it is called socialism, why is it not socialism when Williams does it -(<span style="text-decoration: line-through">you can not have it both ways</span>).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black nationalism was not what Eric Williams was about.. He used it to get his agenda when the re was not choice..</div></div>
Thats not what the links I have provided is attesting to....in short you were doped into thinking he was a imperialistic capitalist while he was about Black Consciousness.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did I say that Ibos wernt butchered ????..</div></div>

You said &quot;<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of it came one man who took the surrender, <span style="font-weight: bold">made the deal that <span style="color: #FF0000">prevented</span> the butchery of the Ibo </span>and led to reconciliation</div></div> the butchering(pogrom, communialism) is what started the wars.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">During the war the ibos were butchered and they butchered...At the end of the war there was an amazing level of forgiveness that is unique in Africa.. It demonstrated an African solution... And at the center was Obasanja one man made a difference!!!! A solider did a Mandela thiry years before Mandela...

The strange nexus the Biafran war when the Brits and Russians supported the Govement, and all the rest supported the Biafran.. (BP got kicjed out after wards! God I love those Nigerians ! That was the ultimate 419 scam


Start at the point we are not at the point we were 50 years ago. Times have changed When Eric williams wrote Capitalism and slavery there was a need for us to align ourself that manner. , now does a critical analysis of the evolution from a fuedal society to capitalism against a bacck drop of evolving to independence the perfect paradgim for development, .. See his speeched ..Africa is not anywhere else it is not black america light , it is hundreds of disperate experiences and no single solution fits.. That is my experience in the delta...Libya, Liberia, on the big rivers, Cote Du'Ivore, ect doing buiness doing investments, ...
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">THE COMMON THREAD.</span>
The more things change the more the remain the same.
What has really changed...The book was about how the blood sweat tears land mineral labour wealth of the Afrikan peoples funded and support European wealth and development while underdeveloping Africa and the Caribbean. Thats still happening today. Afrika pays out to European 50times what it recieves, stolen Afrikan wealth now reside in European banks to the tune of $220billion

http://www.bigpicture.tv/?id=3499

IT IS STILL VERY RELEVANT

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Black nationalism as we see it in yanki dom.. But what do I know I am too far gone to believe in messanic paradgims... or one solution fits all or using Africans as proxies for white peoples ideologicals misinterpretations of history.... My experience is not via Utube either it is wading in the mud in Port Harcourt, in Warri on fast boats on the delta, at bush bars with working girls.. But it is only incidental... </div></div>

True I have never travelled to these countries, what does that mean? the experience of those who lived and studied the situation who I cite and link does not count but yours does?

Dont fight youtube, its just information being liberalize.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My contention is that ideology is passe! yesterdays politics.. What Nigeria needs from oil is the NNPC to be efficent.. It has the human capital to do just that.. And out of the NNPC will come the solution not me telling Africans how to fix it...an Nigerians not yankis cubans, kamunists, christians, Nigerians! But I am too far gone now aint I..? </div></div>
Who would disagree with that....
what we are arguing is why it is not effecient and wherein lies the cause.

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

TRUE words
Capitalism will not allow for competition and so it is forced by its very nature to stifle the development of possible future competitors.
Socialism on the other hand tries to level the playing field, or give the Man on the bottom a chance, where none existed before.

[Wahalla]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

yet texaco, shell, bg, ananadarko ect are in Trinidad and never left.....And they run their oil industry as per the model i advocated.. and the effect of the partial nationalisation was exactly what happened in Venezuiela falling production...

And when Venezuela threatened they turned to the States to provide a security blanket.

Eric Williams sort not to destroy the private sector but encouraged it... INITIATIVE that is always my solutin not ideology. Not goverment as a solution(and I know I am an idiot). At the moment there are programs in Trinidad that encourages the formation of small buinesses. Not demonise them.. that is where I am at... There are locally owned private companies that compete with the big oil companies this is a throw back from the time investments was made to encourage private companies under Eric Williams. now they have companies that can. Trinidad workers are found in every single oil feild on the planet.Goverments tax.. That is there function.. Not production.. they are crap at that.. Let people &quot;try a ting&quot; people creat wealth.. goverments spend wealth.

Hee is the issue in Africa the modern goverments have never replaced the tradtionsla institutions..
..Manley and his cadres rhetoric which irrationally mirrored fidels sort to demonise the small businesses..the image of five flights and the right wing jamaicans overseas who sort to have a coup...

All wars have butchery it is inevitable.. biafran was no different, compared to what happened then to the yankis in iraq today are boyscouts . That is the nature of war. But the end of Biafran was done with chivarly...african initiatives and forgiveness ... and it prevented a long drawn out process as happens now in the Congo of recriminations and reprisals.. that needs to be studied and highlighted..

[johnnycakes]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

My contention is that ideology is passe! yesterdays politics.. What Nigeria needs from oil is the NNPC to be efficent.. It has the human capital to do just that.. And out of the NNPC will come the solution not me telling Africans how to fix it...an Nigerians not yankis cubans, kamunists, christians, Nigerians! But I am too far gone now aint I..?


A more efficient form of any capitalist enterprise merely means more profit and that does not go to the millions upon millions of poor in Nigeria.
The Nigerians that you say should find a solution have few choices in finding a solution and it sure as hell is not more of the same.

Why do you have such a big problem with DEMOCRACY?

The capitalism you espouse is not a solution. It is totalitarian in nature.
What the corporation heads say is law with no input from the workers.
Likewise multi-party electoral systems are also totalitarian and most often in league with the corporations.

You offer proven failures and fight against what works and that is democracy and a participatory economy..

[franksterr]

Re: Niger delta Oil spill - does anybody care???

Wahalla

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yet texaco, shell, bg, ananadarko ect are in Trinidad and never left.....And they run their oil industry as per the model i advocated.. and the effect of the partial nationalisation was exactly what happened in Venezuiela falling production...</div></div>

DId Manley partially nationalize the bauxite companies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And when Venezuela threatened they turned to the States to provide a security blanket.

Eric Williams sort not to destroy the private sector but encouraged it... INITIATIVE that is always my solutin not ideology. Not goverment as a solution(and I know I am an idiot). At the moment there are programs in Trinidad that encourages the formation of small buinesses. Not demonise them.. that is where I am at... There are locally owned private companies that compete with the big oil companies this is a throw back from the time investments was made to encourage private companies under Eric Williams. now they have companies that can. Trinidad workers are found in every single oil feild on the planet.Goverments tax.. That is there function.. Not production.. they are crap at that.. Let people &quot;try a ting&quot; people creat wealth.. goverments spend wealth.
</div></div>
Are you saying Manley sought to destroy Jamaica's Industries?
Manley demonise no company, he spoke the truth and sometime the truth can be painful.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hee is the issue in Africa the modern goverments have never replaced the tradtionsla institutions..
..Manley and his cadres rhetoric which irrationally mirrored fidels sort to demonise the small businesses..the image of five flights and the right wing jamaicans overseas who sort to have a coup...</div></div>

PURE unadulterated propaganda.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All wars have butchery it is inevitable.. biafran was no different, compared to what happened then to the yankis in iraq today are boyscouts . That is the nature of war. But the end of Biafran was done with chivarly...african initiatives and forgiveness ... and it prevented a long drawn out process as happens now in the Congo of recriminations and reprisals.. that needs to be studied and highlighted..</div></div>

To say something was &quot;prevented&quot; means it never happen...which was not the case. ONE OF The causes of the war was &quot;ethnic cleansing&quot; the butchering of the Ibos. The causes of which is very similiar to what happen in Rwanda between the majority Hutus and the Minority Tutsi - In both cases it was an incident waiting to happening, just as how the West spitefully with malice aforethough cut up the new Nations of Afrika without regard to tribal and ethnic affiliation and demographics. Making it easy if necessary for the West to stir up ethnic rivalries resulting in the destabilization of these countries.

In the Congo, the war there is being maintain and manage by the West to keep access to the Congo's mineral wealth cheap and out of the control of the Congolese as they will not be able to organize and benefit from there mineral wealth. Should the West find another willing puppet like Mobutu, who is willing to compromise himself while doing the West bidding, peace will break out there immediatley.