Jamaica : A legacy of racism

**jah_yout** · 08-07-2010, 12:34 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not call what is happening in Jamaica Racism, It is more aptly described as Colorism.
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=19SEtchQOGY </div></div>

it is racism....and colorism & colonialism & classism & capitalism & materialism & devilism...

any ism you can think of...

the thing is the forces work their plans to keep this order but i and i know that this order must be fought in order to be defeated...

it's simple;
illunitati, CIA & KKK & john pope's forces will not hand over any of their ill-gotten gains to afrikan ascendants who were forcibly brought to jamaica's shores solely for the purpose of their own enrichment...

there is no progress without struggle...
and there will be no struggle without knowledge of who you are and what you are struggling to achieve...

**Panajar** · 08-13-2010, 08:59 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would not call what is happening in Jamaica Racism, It is more aptly described as Colorism.
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=19SEtchQOGY </div></div>

You can dress it up all you want to ,calling Jamaica's issues colourism might make it more palatable to some, but the fact is race plays a huge part in Jamaican society how else could one account for a society that is over 90% black yet the wealth is mostly controlled by none black Jamaicans.

The online encyclopedia of nations has a interesting take on Jamaica: check this out...

<span style="font-size: 17pt">"Jamaica - Poverty and wealth</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">When it comes to wealth, Jamaica is a land of extremes</span>. On the northern coast—home to tourism—and in the suburbs of Kingston, wealthy Jamaicans live in first-rate housing, visit shopping centers featuring the best imported goods, and enjoy an elevated standard of living. Living in such suburbs as Cherry Gardens, Arcadia Gardens, and Forest Hills, the wealthy send their children to private schools and to universities abroad, and employ private security forces. Yet not far from these wealthy enclaves a significant number of poor Jamaicans live in squalor, with poor housing, limited food supply, and inadequate access to clean water, quality health care, or education. Kingston's poor congregate in the slum districts of Trench Town, Jones Town, and Denham Town, where

GDP per Capita (US$)
Country 1975 1980 1985 1990 1998
Jamaica 1,819 1,458 1,353 1,651 1,559
United States 19,364 21,529 23,200 25,363 29,683
Haiti 500 607 527 481 370
St. Lucia N/A 2,076 2,150 3,542 3,907
SOURCE: United Nations. Human Development Report 2000; Trends in human development and per capita income.

water supplies are often polluted and violent youth gangs clash with police for control of the streets.

<span style="font-size: 17pt">The wealth is distributed largely along racial lines, reflecting Jamaica's slave-plantation heritage. The descendants of black slaves tend to be among the poorest classes in Jamaica, while white and mixed-race descendants of plantation owners and traders tend to be better off. </span>These extremes are reflected in the nation's distribution of income: in 1996 the wealthiest 20 percent of Jamaicans controlled 43.9 percent of the wealth, while the poorest 20 percent controlled only 7 percent. In fact, the poorest 60 percent controlled just 34.3 percent of wealth. Due in large part to the decline of services in urban slums, the percentage of people with access to safe water has declined from 96 percent in the period from 1982-85 to 70 percent in the period from 1990-96; access to sanitation facilities (plumbed toilets) has dropped from 91 percent to 74 percent in the same period."

more.. SOURCE

**R_C** · 08-13-2010, 09:36 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

What is Espeut saying that has not been said before ?

This is nothing more than a restatement of the obvious.

**Wahalla** · 08-13-2010, 10:59 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

I read this and wondered.. Did any black people ever do well in Jamaica ? Has there been any redistrution of wealth between the sectors ???? And these mixed race decendants are they not decended from salves as well.. Examine the families of the leaders.. Ornette Golding is obviously mixed race.. yet he married a woman of strong african features...

I question this simply in that Jamaica is a "blacker" place than 50 years ago as alot of themixed races have emigrated...That is teh feel I get but it may simply be ancedotal...

And out of curoicity has any one ever studied the wealth of say the mixed races in ST E where the Red man dem are ? How do they fare against their darker brethren say ?
As our pocket marxist loves telling us what is the % weathl that the top ten % of the US control ??? 10% 92 % of the weatlth???. How do we compare to Barbados ???? Note I am not contradicting the fact but try to put it into context.... I beleive the

Personally I would like to tax those weathly Jamaicans more.. and socila mobility as well as weath has increased... what was the % weath distribution at independence.. I am curious as to wheter we are making progress or not ?

Lower interest rates in Jamaica is needed to increase weath as well as access to formal banking system...

**evanovitch** · 08-14-2010, 12:36 AM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I read this and wondered.. Did any black people ever do well in Jamaica ? Has there been any redistrution of wealth between the sectors ???? And these mixed race decendants are they not decended from salves as well.. Examine the families of the leaders.. Ornette Golding is obviously mixed race.. yet he married a woman of strong african features...

I question this simply in that Jamaica is a "blacker" place than 50 years ago as alot of themixed races have emigrated...That is teh feel I get but it may simply be ancedotal...

And out of curoicity has any one ever studied the wealth of say the mixed races in ST E where the Red man dem are ? How do they fare against their darker brethren say ?
As our pocket marxist loves telling us what is the % weathl that the top ten % of the US control ??? 10% 92 % of the weatlth???. How do we compare to Barbados ???? Note I am not contradicting the fact but try to put it into context.... I beleive the

Personally I would like to tax those weathly Jamaicans more.. and socila mobility as well as weath has increased... what was the % weath distribution at independence.. I am curious as to wheter we are making progress or not ?

Lower interest rates in Jamaica is needed to increase weath as well as access to formal banking system... </div></div>

yes black men have done well...di fuss yaad black millionaire who built Devon House

more recently PJ who by gossip is wealthy beyond measure

there is the perception dat all dem fairskin who left were wealthy...not necessarily...dem had jobs yes, regular jobs wid regular paycheque so they could live good on extended credit....bank, grocery store n wen all else fail, dem day workers would have fi dem likkle pay held bak sometimes wid dem neva getting paid off...but wat recourse did they have...i not juss saying dis, i have heard lady of the house tell di helper she ongle givin di helper dis much of har pay dis week...no apology no notten...dem tings mek mi cringe ....

all dem people felt dat dem supposed class would carrry dem abroad...dat is why many chose Canada...dem work experience in Ja would be understodd in Canada n dem lack of paper qualification would not be so glaring...i again seh dat many who were in real estate stole from dem clients in Ja...disapperared from di shores afta tekking money fi house etc

wat amuses me is dat even unda di black PM ,given the time in office nutten of substance was achieved unless u tek it dat blk people ongle needed cell phone , cyar an ooman...

Ja is an island of social climbers who say wat is necessary to get access to the silver spoon....dem start out being 'grounds' but fall in line like all before dem

**Wahalla** · 08-14-2010, 08:28 AM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

Luana and shell must have paid well!

**jah_yout** · 08-14-2010, 10:47 AM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The online encyclopedia of nations has a interesting take on Jamaica:</div></div>

yes the facts are out there...

it is nothing new nor is it unique to j-a;
the elites will protect their own interests...

it is a global reality...so-called 'blacks' were physically & mentally enslaved & economically exploited...
do you think there is a connection between mental enslavement & the condition of the black masses?

personally i think a people without knowledge of self are doomed to be exploited...
they won't have to be told to get to the back of the line-- they will voluntarily go there;

the history is all there....the question is what will we do with it...
seems we want to be the white or brown people (skin-bleaching/hair-creming/weaving) instead of developing the black people...
who can we beg to love us if we do not love ourselves?

hopefully the words we say here may reach some of the right people

**barosa** · 08-14-2010, 02:44 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-size: 11pt">"There are many people who claim racism in Jamaica is a thing of the past,
but that what we see now is lots of class prejudice. <span style="font-weight: bold">They must have their heads buried in the sand, for racism is alive and well in Jamaica.</span>
</span> </div></div>
The above has always been debated by Jamaicans from all walks of life and their conclusions vary to reflect their "take" based on factors such as education, historical knowledge, experience, sofistication and a host of other influences.. I personally have used the <span style="font-weight: bold">American Yardstick</span> as a measure of describing "racism" in Jamaica which I've never denied existed in the long forgotten past.. Shurely, there are individuals who may practice it and I'm sure where ever humans of different species cross path with each other, that human trait of "superiority" will always be a facor... What we now have has been morphed into what we commonly know today as "the class system" in Jamaica, which is a derivative from "Colonial racism" that existed during and after "slavery"... Mr. Espeut may want to label the present "class system" as RACISM being alive and well in Jamaica, but I beg to differ using the <span style="font-weight: bold">American Yardstick</span> which the modern world knows only too well...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">I can understand why many people would think so.</span> Ever since slavery, there has been a strong link between race and class in Jamaica, and maybe the two have become confused. For it was the Europeans (the whites) who owned the land and their African slaves (the blacks). Thereafter, in Jamaica, the 'haves' have been light-skinned while the 'have-nots' have been dark skinned.</div></div>

I have no problem with what Peter has written about the underlying reasons why <span style="font-weight: bold">we have what we have</span> but it's not racism in the true sense of the term and it would be ridiculous to call it "racism". Those who think so should pause and think... It would be asinine to call it "Jamaican style" Racism or "Brown Man" Racism, that would be hillarious!
____________________________

Just like oil, the truth always float to the top..

**franksterr** · 08-14-2010, 05:48 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

Panajar

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can dress it up all you want to ,calling Jamaica's issues colourism might make it more palatable to some, but the fact is race plays a huge part in Jamaican society how else could one account for a society that is over 90% black yet the wealth is mostly controlled by none black Jamaicans.
</div></div>

It is not a dress up, but an attempt to more accurately describe what is happening in Jamaica. Without a doubt it has its roots in racism and is a close cousin of racism, but it lacks much of the hallmark of racism

Racism has the following that colorism lacks..
Usually directed at others outside your ethnic group or race
The institutionalization of oppression in law, work, education and society.
The overt display and expression of hatred...lynchings, ostracization and marginalization
Disenfranchisement....unable to participate in the political process
Dehumanization....not considered human
Physical restriction and strict behavior control......how to act when and where can go.
etc

**Panajar** · 08-15-2010, 12:00 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes black men have done well...di fuss yaad black millionaire who built Devon House</div></div>

I would not use this man as a example,if my memory is correct he did not make is fortune in Jamaica .His fortune was made aboard and then he returned to Jamaica.The system in Jamaica in that period would not allow for a black man to become a millionaire,sad thing remnants of that same system still exist in Jamaica even in 2010.

A high percentage of Black Jamaicans who are "successful"
had to seek their fortunes aboard (just like many of us are doing right now) While the beneficiaries of slavery/colonialism remain on the island in full control of the wealth generated by hundreds of years of colonialism /slavery.

**evanovitch** · 08-15-2010, 10:12 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes black men have done well...di fuss yaad black millionaire who built Devon House</div></div>

I would not use this man as a example,if my memory is correct he did not make is fortune in Jamaica .His fortune was made aboard and then he returned to Jamaica.The system in Jamaica in that period would not allow for a black man to become a millionaire,sad thing remnants of that same system still exist in Jamaica even in 2010.

A high percentage of Black Jamaicans who are "successful"
had to seek their fortunes aboard (just like many of us are doing right now) While the beneficiaries of slavery/colonialism remain on the island in full control of the wealth generated by hundreds of years of colonialism /slavery.

</div></div>

n yet under the said system he found a way leave to build a mansion....wouldnt u call dat an a rich achievement given di system...bwoy mi a tell u seh teaching falling far from di mark dese days...nobody naw tink beyond whe infront a dem...such a pity since ALL ur arguments r regarding the lack of opportunity fi black man

**Dr.Dudd** · 08-15-2010, 10:22 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

He was the son if a wealthy Jewish merchant That educated him And set him up with his own vessel.

He went to colombia and invested in gold mining

But ofcourse the exception is always fair game when you sanitary a preconcieved result.[ quote=Panajar]<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes black men have done well...di fuss yaad black millionaire who built Devon House</div></div>

I would not use this man as a example,if my memory is correct he did not make is fortune in Jamaica .His fortune was made aboard and then he returned to Jamaica.The system in Jamaica in that period would not allow for a black man to become a millionaire,sad thing remnants of that same system still exist in Jamaica even in 2010.

A high percentage of Black Jamaicans who are "successful"
had to seek their fortunes aboard (just like many of us are doing right now) While the beneficiaries of slavery/colonialism remain on the island in full control of the wealth generated by hundreds of years of colonialism /slavery.

[/quote]

**Panajar** · 08-16-2010, 12:25 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

n yet under the said system he found a way leave to build a mansion....wouldnt u call dat an a rich achievement given di system...bwoy mi a tell u seh teaching falling far from di mark dese days...nobody naw tink beyond whe infront a dem...such a pity since ALL ur arguments r regarding the lack of opportunity fi black man </div></div>

HUh .. Maybe this will refresh your memory of who the owner of Devon house was. <span style="font-weight: bold">George Stiebel</span> Jamaica's first so called "Black" millionaire was the son of a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">German Jew</span></span> and a Black housekeeper. As this article already states,and most Jamaicans know, <span style="font-weight: bold">mixe race</span> individuals are given higher status and more opportunity, than the average black person in Jamaican society.Doc Dudd was correct when he stated in his post that George Stiblel was given money by his father who was a<span style="font-weight: bold"> German Jew</span>, to start his business and he went to Venezuela to make his fortune. Bottom line, he was not your average black Jamaican! The Devon house story is nothing but half truths and is just another myth perpetrated by the former colonial rulers/slave masters to make it seems as if they had a fair and equitable system ,on that former slave plantation island called Jamaica.

**jah_yout** · 08-16-2010, 05:43 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

<span style="font-size: 11pt">tomorrow is garvey's earthday;

what we need to examine is why so little has changed since garvey was alive and denounced the babylon system of official racism against the african strain...

we need to analyze why 70 years after garvey's death we are less conscious as a people and have less pride in our race....

why have africans/ african-descendants largely ignored garvey's works yet now scream about racism like dem naw nuh sense...

unnu tink di white/brown elites are going to just hand over power and riches to a bunch of black stooges who do not care about their history or the struggles of their forefathers...
a people who have denied their own existence as an african people...
a people who strive to be something else --- anything other than what they are...

i have not seen ONE jamaican leader since the time of garvey who has ever addressed this stuff...
we can post articles from now til the cows come home that there is racism or colorism in jamaica...but we the blacks are just as much to blame for this situation;

only a fool expects his enemy to save him</span>

**jah_yout** · 08-16-2010, 05:55 PM

Re: Jamaica : A legacy of racism

mental slavery is a greater problem than these government guys...

they are here to downpress people...

but all these years and you will only see non-blacks or barely-blacks represent jamaica in babylonia beauty contests;

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gcOUeF8qGRw"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gcOUeF8qGRw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

you will hear entertainers bragging about removing the african strain

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k8uLltJdtvY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k8uLltJdtvY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

our biggest entertainer even tried to change himself into a white man

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YVoJ6OO6lR4"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YVoJ6OO6lR4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

the masses of africans still subliminally see non-blacks as superior, more beautiful, more human, so they are only doing what we gave them power to do...
HOW WILL ANYONE RESPECT US IF WE DON'T RESPECT OURSELVES...

we don't deserve jamaica or africa or any where else on earth if we accept the role as a lesser being

Jamaica : A legacy of racism

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