What's up with Fidel ?

**Derek** · 09-01-2010, 12:05 AM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does "nuance" apply to over 50 U.S. invasions and interventions since WWII ?

<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">Can you name a country that has done more killing and damage to the world ?</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Please list all or some of the good things done for the world by the United States since WWI</span>I that would balance off the tens of millions killed by U.S. foreign policies during that time..</div></div>

They gave baseball to the Japanese.

**f0rTyLeGz** · 09-01-2010, 02:37 AM

Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

Fidel Castro has said that he is ultimately responsible for the persecution suffered by homosexuals in Cuba after the revolution of 1959.

The former president told the Mexican newspaper La Jornada that there were moments of great injustice against the gay community.

"If someone is responsible, it's me," he said.

In the 1960s and 70s, many homosexuals in Cuba were fired, imprisoned or sent to "re-education camps".

Mr Castro said homosexuals had traditionally been discriminated in Cuba, just as black people and women.

But, nevertheless, he admits he didn't pay enough attention to what was going on against the gay community.

"At the time we were being sabotaged systematically, there were armed attacks against us, we had too many problems," said the 84-year-old Communist leader.

"Keeping one step ahead of the CIA, which was paying so many traitors, was not easy."

In 1979, homosexuality was decriminalised and, more recently, there have been efforts to legalise same-sex unions.
'At death's door'

In the interview with La Jornada, Mr Castro also spoke of the economic embargo against the island, which was imposed by the United States in 1961. He said it was just as damaging today as it was then.

"The biggest problem was always medicine and food, which is true even today," he said.

Mr Castro's comments came in the second installment of a lengthy interview with the journalist Carmen Lira.

On Monday's instalment, he said he had been "at death's door" during the long illness which forced him to step down as Cuba's leader.

Mr Castro fell ill in 2006 and handed power to his brother Raul in 2008.

He underwent several operations for an intestinal illness.

"I asked myself several times if (the doctors) would let me live under these conditions or whether they would allow me to die," he told La Jornada.

Mr Castro led Cuba for almost 50 years after toppling the government of Fulgencio Batista in a revolution.

The Communists remain in power and Fidel Castro remains head of the Communist Party, although his brother Raul is president of the country.

Fidel Castro takes blame for persecution of Cuban gays

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11147157

Former Cuban President Fidel Castro says he is to blame for the persecution of homosexuals after the Cuban revolution of 1959.

**halfwaytree** · 09-01-2010, 05:11 AM

Re: Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

Isn't Fidel's own daughter Lebanese?

**Derek** · 09-01-2010, 06:57 AM

Re: Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

Where's this thread heading?

**R_C** · 09-01-2010, 09:28 AM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">During the Cold War operating under "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" the mujahedin came under the wing of the United States. All the Afghans opposed to the Soviets were trained and supplied by the United States and this included the so-called "freedom fighters" whom today we call al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Once the Soviets were defeated, the U.S. had no more use for the Taliban or al-Qaeda.
They just became the usual ignored ex-clients and then of course after 9/11/2001 they became the targets they are today.

There is no long term loyalty between the CIA and people they find useful overseas</div></div>.

Agreed.

Now, do you care to address why Bin Laden is <span style="font-style: italic">still</span> thought to be a CIA “agent” (as Fidel has claimed him still to be)?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RC, Have you read much of Noam Chomsky?</div></div>

I am familiar with his context free writings , yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about the two books I mentioned? How about the articles posted daily at Znet?</div></div>

No

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you read the introduction to "Killing Hope" as I recommended?</div></div>

Yes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does "nuance" apply to over 50 U.S. invasions and interventions since WWII ? Can you name a country that has done more killing and damage to the world ? Please list all or some of the good things done for the world by the United States since WWII that would balance off the tens of millions killed by U.S. foreign policies during that time.</div></div>

A wonderful plurium interrogationum. Sorry, not going to fall for it.

**franksterr** · 09-01-2010, 08:24 PM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually it doesn’t explain it.

My question has to do with the assertion that once a CIA agent, always a CIA agent. As I pointed out there are many examples that contradict this in history. Given that history, why is it so difficult to imagine that Bin Laden has turned against the agency and the US …as so many other “agents” have done in the past ? What is it that makes him different ?

Thanks
</div></div>

Sorry I could'nt be of more help.
As I said I was addressing the "different standard" vis a vis Bin Laden and Agee, in particular what or who are actually CIA agents.
Now to your new question - What is it that makes him (Osama) different ?
several reasons can be given
He is still at large - an unending war.
He has provide a pretext for the US to invade and secure oil reserves - globally
He has provide the necessary fear factor for the US to push through specific draconian laws at home.
He has generated a boom in US military sales.
He has provide the US military with places and oppurtunities to execute military games - try out weaponary and tactics in the field.
He has enlargen the US sphere of military occupation - empire
He is not on the FBI most wanted list.
He was allowed to escape
His family, friends, and associates was allowed to leave the US when it was under lock down
He is and was being finance by ISI which is finance by the CIA( triple cross/bin laden spy)
He base in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism) remains intack.

**jah_yout** · 09-01-2010, 10:50 PM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually it doesn’t explain it.

My question has to do with the assertion that once a CIA agent, always a CIA agent. As I pointed out there are many examples that contradict this in history. Given that history, why is it so difficult to imagine that Bin Laden has turned against the agency and the US …as so many other “agents” have done in the past ? What is it that makes him different ?

Thanks
</div></div>

Sorry I could'nt be of more help.
As I said I was addressing the "different standard" vis a vis Bin Laden and Agee, in particular what or who are actually CIA agents.
Now to your new question - What is it that makes him (Osama) different ?
several reasons can be given
He is still at large - an unending war.
He has provide a pretext for the US to invade and secure oil reserves - globally
He has provide the necessary fear factor for the US to push through specific draconian laws at home.
He has generated a boom in US military sales.
He has provide the US military with places and oppurtunities to execute military games - try out weaponary and tactics in the field.
He has enlargen the US sphere of military occupation - empire
He is not on the FBI most wanted list.
He was allowed to escape
His family, friends, and associates was allowed to leave the US when it was under lock down
He is and was being finance by ISI which is finance by the CIA( triple cross/bin laden spy)
He base in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism) remains intack. </div></div>

good points...
they never even mention finding this guy anymore;
it's certainly possible-----politrix is a dirrdy game

**Derek** · 09-01-2010, 11:09 PM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually it doesn’t explain it.

My question has to do with the assertion that once a CIA agent, always a CIA agent. As I pointed out there are many examples that contradict this in history. Given that history, why is it so difficult to imagine that Bin Laden has turned against the agency and the US …as so many other “agents” have done in the past ? What is it that makes him different ?

Thanks
</div></div>

Sorry I could'nt be of more help.
As I said I was addressing the "different standard" vis a vis Bin Laden and Agee, in particular what or who are actually CIA agents.
Now to your new question - What is it that makes him (Osama) different ?
several reasons can be given
He is still at large - an unending war.
He has provide a pretext for the US to invade and secure oil reserves - globally
He has provide the necessary fear factor for the US to push through specific draconian laws at home.
He has generated a boom in US military sales.
He has provide the US military with places and oppurtunities to execute military games - try out weaponary and tactics in the field.
He has enlargen the US sphere of military occupation - empire
He is not on the FBI most wanted list.
He was allowed to escape
His family, friends, and associates was allowed to leave the US when it was under lock down
He is and was being finance by ISI which is finance by the CIA( triple cross/bin laden spy)
He base in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism) remains intack. </div></div>

good points...
they never even mention finding this guy anymore;
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 11pt">it's certainly possible</span></span>-----politrix is a dirrdy game </div></div>

Certainly possible? It's all true - apart from Franksterr's assertion that Bin Laden is still at large.
He died in (I think) 2003 - but the US and Britain don't want to tell us that because the fear factor would diminish.
And the US/Britain need reasons to further erode of our civil rights and install military bases/perform military action anywhere/anytime.

**diabolical_Tanya** · 09-01-2010, 11:11 PM

Re: Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't Fidel's own daughter Lebanese? </div></div>His niece Raul's daughter

**halfwaytree** · 09-01-2010, 11:30 PM

Re: Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diabolical_Tanya</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't Fidel's own daughter Lebanese? </div></div>His niece Raul's daughter </div></div>

Ahhh! Right you are.

**Derek** · 09-02-2010, 04:53 AM

Re: Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diabolical_Tanya</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Isn't Fidel's own daughter Lebanese? </div></div>His niece Raul's daughter </div></div>

Ahhh! Right you are. </div></div>

Yeah. Castro's niece sleeps with women. They maybe use dildos and their tongues on each other for enhanced sexual gratification.

**neutral** · 09-02-2010, 05:58 AM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

How does "nuance" apply to over 50 U.S. invasions and interventions since WWII ?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Can you name a country that has done more killing and damage to the world ?</span>

</div></div>

Good bloody question,....the US is pretty good at giving the impression that they have the moral high ground,when it comes to duplicity they are second to none.
They have managed to invade,plunder,murder,and impose sanctions on other countries like confetti,....all at the same time giving the impression that they are the good guys.

To adress some other points raised,yes bin laden was their main man during the soviet invasion of afghanistan,practically their best buddy in the region...only then he wasnt part of "al-quaeda",,,he was a brave freedom fighter in the mujahadeen.
And saddam hussein was also their best buddy during the war between iran and Iraq,..the US supplied saddam with...yes you guessed it....WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

**neutral** · 09-02-2010, 06:02 AM

Re: Fidel says, "injustices against gays"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Yeah. Castro's niece sleeps with women. They maybe use dildos and their tongues on each other for enhanced sexual gratification. </div></div>

and,and,and *drool* *slobber*.....maybe sometimes get their other girlie friends to join in a threesome,or a girlie foursome.

**R_C** · 09-02-2010, 10:49 AM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

frankster, In terms of a pretext, there is no doubt that the US government claimed the purpose of invading Afghanistan after 9/11 was to eliminate the Taliban regime (and replace them with the corrupt Karzai as it turns out), neutralize Al-Qaeda, find Osama bin Laden and put him on trial. On that we can agree. The rest of your list is a conflation of fact, conjecture, apodeictic assertions and untruth ( e.g. Bin Laden<span style="font-style: italic"> is</span> on the FBI’s ten most wanted list ) so it is useless for the purpose intended.

Bin Laden may have been a CIA operative during the Soviet Union’s adventure in Afghanistan, I won’t argue that point. His problems with the US backed Saudi puppet regime after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait however are as well documented as his jihadist credentials so I am trying to understand what is the <span style="font-weight: bold">factual </span>basis of the idea that he was (? and still is) in the employ and acting on the behalf of the US government in some conspiratorial role during the Bush years.

Incidentally, that Fidel would be embracing the ideas of Daniel Estulin, and by extension Lyndon LaRouche, speaks to his wisdom in stepping down from day to day involvement in public life.

**Derek** · 09-02-2010, 10:56 AM

Re: What's up with Fidel ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">( e.g. Bin Laden<span style="font-style: italic"> is</span> on the FBI’s ten most wanted list )
</div></div>

He is now.

For years I used to argue that if the guy had anything to do with 911, why isn't he on the FBI's Most Wanted list?

I used to even provide the link for people to check it out for themselves.

A few years later, someone (FBI?) noticed this strange omission and added OBL to the list.

What's up with Fidel ?

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