A massacre:British Barbarity

[Panajar]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: St_Bess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Panajar dat picture up a top dey look like me frien brother Devon Dick - can you confirm? I know he is interested in jamaican history and the morant bay rebellion in particular. </div></div>

Yes, this piece was written by Rev Devon Dick.

[Wahalla]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

suh unno neva know dis before????or deh ole song wey did guh cross deh islan...

war duna muklan
war duna murrumbey
war oh heavy war oh
wa deh everi wey???

i havent watched the video but there were a number of external aspects that were interesting it came after the india muntity and there were aspects because of the india rising how it was dealth with,,,
the maroons whom every one love these days were not liled by most jamaican poor people,,,,,because of their participation in the supression of rebellion... not because as I have heard on here that they were freedom fighters.. no they were as part their treaty slave chasers..

also Bogle was a proto black nationalist.... before garvey his leaflets were seen in Black River... and

[Panajar]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With regards to the quote,admittedly there are numerous such documentaries aired in the UK that are not aired in Jamaica or elsewhere,simply because they were comissioned for domestic viewing. </div></div>

Point taken, but given our history of withholding information deemed by the authorities to be “seditious” one cannot help but to be skeptical .You might or might not be aware that as recently as 1968 it was the official policy of the Hugh Shearer led JLP administration , to ban all books the administration and its<span style="font-size: 14pt"> financial backers</span> considered “inappropriate” i.e. books that attempted to inform the black population about their history and outlined some of the reasons why blacks are in such a dismal situation worldwide.

Fact is it was downright illegal to be in possession of The Autobiography of Malcolm X .They even banned a book entitled BLACK BEAUTY, which was laughable since the book was about a horse and had nothing to do with the struggle of black people .

It was the law of the land if you were caught with any of these books you could be sent to prison .All of this happen in a supposedly independent Jamaica where the population is over 90% black. Through our history there has been a sustained effort by the powers that be, to misdirect, discredit and neutralize all efforts by our leaders to enlighten our people about their past. Given these indisputable facts I would never put it past the powers that be ,to orchestrate the concealment of this documentary from the general public.


Can we change history of course not. But we can adopt the famous quote from Auschwitz ,“NEVER AGAIN” .Which leads me back to my other post, concerning the incarceration of black men in the homeland of the former colonial/slave masters …but that maybe for another time and place.

[jah_yout]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

it is no accident;

they banned dr. walter rodney from jamaica when he attempted to teach the true history;

jamaica has always been a lackey of the british &amp; the queen is still official head of state;

it is strange that jamaicans seem to know more about american &amp; british historical figures than their own...
but the gov't made it this way...
it is absolutely not in their interest to inform the majority population;

that's why i say pnp &amp; jlp have unequivocally failed jamaica

[jah_yout]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">suh unno neva know dis before????or deh ole song wey did guh cross deh islan...

war duna muklan
war duna murrumbey
war oh heavy war oh
wa deh everi wey???

i havent watched the video but there were a number of external aspects that were interesting it came after the india muntity and there were aspects because of the india rising how it was dealth with,,,
the maroons whom every one love these days were not liled by most jamaican poor people,,,,,because of their participation in the supression of rebellion... not because as I have heard on here that they were freedom fighters.. no they were as part their treaty slave chasers..

also Bogle was a proto black nationalist.... before garvey his leaflets were seen in Black River... and </div></div>

the british even got the spanish &amp; french to ready war ships for the rebellion;

as far as the maroons..their history as freedom fighters has to be respected for the time it occurred,
but the selling out of bogle must be condemned;
( &amp; other blacks used to work for the british to capture maroons when they were fighting their wars as well- so it goes both ways)

but can't forget there were other blacks besides maroons loyal to the queen who fought bogle's troops on behalf of mother britain

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">suh unno neva know dis before????or deh ole song wey did guh cross deh islan...

war duna muklan
war duna murrumbey
war oh heavy war oh
wa deh everi wey???

i havent watched the video but there were a number of external aspects that were interesting it came after the india muntity and there were aspects because of the india rising how it was dealth with,,,
the maroons whom every one love these days were not liled by most jamaican poor people,,,,,because of their participation in the supression of rebellion... not because as I have heard on here that they were freedom fighters.. no they were as part their treaty slave chasers..

also Bogle was a proto black nationalist.... before garvey his leaflets were seen in Black River... and </div></div>

the british even got the spanish &amp; french to ready war ships for the rebellion;

as far as the maroons..their history as freedom fighters has to be respected for the time it occurred,
but the selling out of bogle must be condemned;
( &amp; other blacks used to work for the british to capture maroons when they were fighting their wars as well- so it goes both ways)

but can't forget there were other blacks besides maroons loyal to the queen who fought bogle's troops on behalf of mother britain
</div></div>
Who you talking.? The mesquito Indians from Honduras? ?

They got a rude awakenning too.
The science of camouflage got the better of them too.

[Wahalla]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

How many black men during the morant bay did the spanish, french or yankis kill????

I have seen too often that the maroons were cast as freedom fighters.. that is never quite as cut and dry..

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many black men during the morant bay did the spanish, french or yankis kill????

I have seen too often that the maroons were cast as freedom fighters.. that is never quite as cut and dry.. </div></div>
May be because the Maroons did what they had to do to survive.

After all they were effectively sorrounded, with the superiorly armed and well supplied and most powerful in the world,british as their mortal enemy.

We have better sense than to expect them not to have weaknesses.

[Wahalla]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

As a kid I recall a number of older people ie men in their 70's never liked the Maroons... I recall one saying that they hated Jamaicans.. and killed bogle..

[Panajar]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many black men during the morant bay did the spanish, french or yankis kill????

I have seen too often that the maroons were cast as freedom fighters.. that is never quite as cut and dry.. </div></div>


Naturally you will agree with me ,that although the maroons played a part in the massacre, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">ULTIMATE</span></span> responsibly for this most odious crime against humanity <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">MUST</span></span> be placed squarely at the feet of the British .After all the island at that time was under full control of the of the colonizers and whatever actions taken by the maroons and or any other combatants were at the behest of the authorities.

[X]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20091023/cleisure/cleisure2.html

<span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #000099">National Heritage Week is &quot;Feel-Good Week&quot; when we lionise our national heroes and revel in our unique cultural heritage and its contribution to the world. We revisit the valiant moments of our history - slave uprisings such as Tacky's Easter Revolt, and Sam Sharpe's Christmas Rebellion, and the great Morant Bay peasant insurrection of October 1865 - when some of our ancestors fought for their rights, many losing their lives in the process.

As a people, we need these moments, for often there is little to distinguish us as a people in a blasé world of KFC and blue jeans; some even discount Jamaican culture as dark and backward in a world of iPods and BlackBerrys.

<span style="font-weight: bold">We need to be in touch with our history, not just to romanticise, but to learn about ourselves!</span> Yes, some of our ancestors fought against slavery and died, but others compromised and supported the system, and some fought to maintain it.<span style="font-weight: bold"> There is no way a few thousand white people could have subjugated several hundred thousand black slaves without traitors in the mix. </span>One of the reasons no slave revolt was ever successful in Jamaica was because most of the conspiracies were betrayed by &quot;loyal&quot; slaves.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The location of Nanny Town was betrayed to British soldiers in 1728 by an African slave named Sambo. </span>In May 1730, a party of soldiers consisting of 95 black shots (armed black slaves) and 22 baggage negroes under Captain Samuel Soaper found the town and attacked it.

Ballard Beckford, owner of Frontier estate (St Mary), sent two loyal slaves on horseback to Spanish Town to warn the Governor of Tacky's 1760 rebellion, who immediately dispatched soldiers and militia to put down the rebellion along with the Scotts Hall Maroons. <span style="font-weight: bold">The Maroons put down not only Tacky's rebellion, but Sam Sharpe's and Paul Bogle's as well. Does that make them heroes, or what?</span>
In October 1765, 45 Coromantyn slaves led by Quaco rose in revolt at Cross Path and Cornwall Estate, Westmoreland and killed four Britons and 11 black slaves in one night. Four militia and 10 black shots pursued them and engaged them at Dean's Valley, killing two of them.

Rebel attack

In April 1795 four slave-owners, Henry Paulett, Alexander Steel, Joseph Biggs and Thomas Kew were relaxing on the piazza of a house in Ventura, Trelawny, when a loyal slave named Rebecca Pleasure Wilton ran up and told them that the house was surrounded by rebels. They jumped up, ran for their guns, and took up defensive positions at the windows and doors. Shots rang out. A bullet went through Kew's head, killing him on the spot. Another bullet grazed Paulett and a third passed through Bigg's right shoulder. <span style="font-weight: bold">Just then Billy, a loyal slave, ran into the house, picked up the gun which Kew had dropped, and began shooting at the attackers. The four held off the insurgents for hours.

RUN FOR SAFETY

Five times the rebels tried to set the house on fire, <span style="text-decoration: underline">and each time Billy risked his life to put out the flames. </span>The rebels called him a &quot;damn Chambo, cut-faced son-of-a-[censored]&quot;. At sunrise some of Paulett's loyal slaves approached the house, but were shot at and driven off by the rebels. When things were quiet, Paulett and Steel threw their valuables through a window for their slaves to carry and hurried through the woods to Duanvale Estate for safety.</span>

In 1805, the Trelawny Vestry paid for the freedom of William Reid, a slave, for his services in heading a party of black shots who apprehended a number of notorious &quot;runaways&quot;.

The headman of Roehampton, St James, a slave named John Baillie, had a stone house with a mahogany sideboard in which wine was kept. He had as much provision grounds as he wanted, extra allowances of rum, sugar, pork and clothing; he kept cattle, hogs and poultry, and had the use of an estate mule and boy; he had a wife, and kept two other women; his wife was washerwoman at the Great House, and his daughter was &quot;housekeeper&quot; (euphemism for &quot;mistress&quot for the slavemaster. When offered his freedom, he said, laughing: &quot;Massa, I know better&quot;.

Several slaves were offered their freedom for their &quot;good conduct&quot; during Sam Sharpe's 1831-32 rebellion.

Our history is replete with heroes and villains, definitely more of the latter than the former. Future historians writing about today may say the same about us. Are the creators and maintainers of today's garrison constituencies (and their funders) heroes or villains? Should we shower them with national honours, or vilify them?

Peter Espeut is a sociologist and a Roman Catholic deacon. Feedback may be sent to [email protected]</span>.</span>

[Wahalla]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Panajar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many black men during the morant bay did the spanish, french or yankis kill????

I have seen too often that the maroons were cast as freedom fighters.. that is never quite as cut and dry.. </div></div>


Naturally you will agree with me ,that although the maroons played a part in the massacre, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">ULTIMATE</span></span> responsibly for this most odious crime against humanity <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">MUST</span></span> be placed squarely at the feet of the British .After all the island at that time was under full control of the of the colonizers and whatever actions taken by the maroons and or any other combatants were at the behest of the authorities. </div></div>

no i dont they had a choiceultimately responsibility is in the hands of the killers, the maroons were the killers they had a choice.... <span style="color: #FF0000">not all maroons fought Bogle</span>... the communitys were split. But most young bloods did... The maroons were central to the massacres....they were essential to control they were hated for what they did. ... they revelled in the killing and had to be restrained by the white officers... in the end the West India regiment fired at them to stop them raping and killing... putting the blame periferally on the maroons is like saying the guards at a Nazi camp ect... The British were the colonial masters who ruled by fear but hte maroons never saw them selves as aligned to slaves or freedom fighters for blacls as they are now being more and more cast.. The maroons had a choice they made the choice.. (most refused to hunt Toussaint but some went to Haiti I beleieve) ...

Instead they were running independently they could have spent the days in the hills without catching one rebel instead they brought body parts and claimed blood money, they revelled in it...they took the blood money enthusiasticly....Just like they did with 3 finger jack....No they were a guilty as the British and more enthusiastic at the executions...

so now all those who like saying their ancestors were maroons, did they ever find out if their ancestors did at St Thomas????

[jah_yout]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

so jamaican in-fighting has deep roots;

i remember reading that the accompong maroons did not get involved with capturing blacks for the british...

i would love to see any photos that exist as panajar says he did...

so jamaica fought longer &amp; harder against slavery than haiti did but haiti was successful at an earlier date due to jamaica's lack of unity...

so the maroon situation at first a blessing later became a curse as far as overall jamaican unity...

but how are the political tribalists of the 70's &amp; 80's who killed more people than the maroons did any different?
are they also hated?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

This nonsense that because they had some idiots amongst them then, that should distract us from the barbarity ig the british only point to the writer as one such idiot amongs us today.

How is it. That today in the 21st century with all the technological advances a few families by their financial control of politicians have succesfully kept the decendants of those slaves effectively out of the economic and financial control of the coun try?

They do so by keeping them un armed and therefore unable to secure their achievement long enough to pass it on to their progeny.
They do so by selectively educating blacks. And purging the population of those they recognize as potential leaders.
They do it by appointing only blacks that are dumb enought to keep down other blacks to position of power.
They do it by educating blacks to be near slaves in phylosophy.
The more educated the less likely to advance the cause of the black people.

[Panajar]

Re: A massacre:British Barbarity

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
no i dont they had a choiceultimately responsibility is in the hands of the killers, the maroons were the killers they had a choice.... <span style="color: #FF0000">not all maroons fought Bogle</span>... the communitys were split. But most young bloods did... The maroons were central to the massacres....they were essential to control they were hated for what they did. ... they revelled in the killing and had to be restrained by the white officers... in the end the West India regiment fired at them to stop them raping and killing... putting the blame periferally on the maroons is like saying the guards at a Nazi camp ect... The British were the colonial masters who ruled by fear but hte maroons never saw them selves as aligned to slaves or freedom fighters for blacls as they are now being more and more cast.. The maroons had a choice they made the choice.. (most refused to hunt Toussaint but some went to Haiti I beleieve) ...

Instead they were running independently they could have spent the days in the hills without catching one rebel instead they brought body parts and claimed blood money, they revelled in it...they took the blood money enthusiasticly....Just like they did with 3 finger jack....No they were a guilty as the British and more enthusiastic at the executions...

so now all those who like saying their ancestors were maroons, did they ever find out if their ancestors did at St Thomas???? </div></div>

The maroons were accessory to these crimes, but in war or peace the buck must stop somewhere. In this case any <span style="font-weight: bold">reasonable</span> person will agree with me that the British were the mastermind and the major beneficiary FROM THESE CRIMES to say otherwise, is to <span style="font-weight: bold">willfully</span> deny history .I rest my case!