JFK two-minute piece of film

[Derek]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In context, both the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the POSSIBILITY that JFK intended to pull out of Vietnam in no way pointed to anything like a turnaround for the consistent and then 50 year old fight against socialism.</div></div>

The POSSIBILITY?
JFK wanted a complete pull out of Vietnam by 1965 and was going to have 1,000 troops home by Christmas 1963. That of course was reversed by Johnson.
Executive Order 11110 would have taken the printing of currency out of Federal Reserve hands.

[johnnycakes]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;One family in the White House for all those years would have been like a monarchy - and frightening to outsiders.&quot;

Derek,
I don't get who the &quot;outsiders&quot; would be.</div></div>

How about the Bush family and the Republicans? </div></div>



DEREK (this time),
Well, politically where were the Bushes in 1963?
They were just Republicans like the rest of them and while the two parties fought for power their ends were and are not much different.
The maintenance of imperial hegemony; the preservation and extension of capitalism and the suppression of socialism and democracy is right across the board in both Dems and Republicans.

[RichD]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">&quot;One family in the White House for all those years would have been like a monarchy - and frightening to outsiders.&quot;

Derek,
I don't get who the &quot;outsiders&quot; would be.</div></div>

How about the Bush family and the Republicans? </div></div>



RichD,
Well, politically where were the Bushes in 1963?
They were just Republicans like the rest of them and while the two parties fought for power their ends were and are not much different.
The maintenance of imperial hegemony; the preservation and extension of capitalism and the suppression of socialism and democracy is right across the board in both Dems and Republicans. </div></div>

why yuh callin up my name ?

[johnnycakes]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Kennedys were members of the U.S. elite and were certainly no threat to the status quo, the ruling elite, the military industrial complex but rather like rock stars whose images of youth and vigor carried them in elections. </div></div>

True but they had their own ideas and agendas - unlike future presidents.
Pulling out of Vietnam, for example, was a BIG threat to the military/industrial complex's earnings potential. Why do you think the US is in Iraq and Afghanistan today? </div></div>

DEREK,
The agenda of JFK was the agenda of the Democrat Party. Were it otherwise he'd never have been nominated. Today this is reflected in the election of Obama, supposedly different when campaigning but exactly the same as all presidents once in office.
Anyone even remotely different like a Kucinich or Nader are eliminated by their own party very early in the selection process as too radical.

JFK most certainly went thorough all those approvals.

As explained, even if JFK were to have pulled out of Vietnam, the Empire even then had its tentacles wrapped around much of the world and Vietnam was but one small piece and perhaps JFK understood that having to kill most of the people there to achieve victory would somehow backfire..

[johnnycakes]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

RichD,

You never heard of senility?

Sorry, I meant Derek but it's nice chatting with you anyway.

[johnnycakes]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In context, both the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the POSSIBILITY that JFK intended to pull out of Vietnam in no way pointed to anything like a turnaround for the consistent and then 50 year old fight against socialism.</div></div>

The POSSIBILITY?
JFK wanted a complete pull out of Vietnam by 1965 and was going to have 1,000 troops home by Christmas 1963. That of course was reversed by Johnson.
Executive Order 11110 would have taken the printing of currency out of Federal Reserve hands. </div></div>



Derek ( I got it now RichD)

The Vietnam war began with Truman (D) went on with Eisenhower (R) Kennedy (D) Johnson (D), Nixon (R) and ended with Ford (R). That's the history.

Both parties agreed on the need to stop Ho Chi Minh from being elected and establishing another socialist state and infecting the area (Domino Theory).

Kennedy may have been thinking about withdrawal but if so, he had not yet taken any concrete steps in that direction and given the imperial nature of the parties and the country I don't think he would want to look weak especially after the Bay of Pigs loss of face because I'm sure he would have wanted to get reelected.

[Derek]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
DEREK (this time),
Well, politically where were the Bushes in 1963?</div></div>

Prescott Bush, George W.'s grandfather, funded Nixon's campaign against JFK in 1960.

THAT'S where the Bushes were.

George H.W. was at the time helping out his CIA friends off the north coast of Cuba. He wasn't quite ready for the White House.


Anyway, we could argue forever on why JFK was killed. This piece of film shatters any notion that Oswald did it, which IS the thread topic.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XY02Qkuc_f8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XY02Qkuc_f8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

[johnnycakes]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

Derek,

I am complete agreement with you that Oswald was not the only one shooting at JFK that day.
If no evidence of the other shooter or the plot has surfaced in all these years it indicates a very professional job and probably the CIA or other secret and tightly knit group.

Why they would do it just seems a mystery to me.

I just cannot believe Kennedy would stray from the anti-socialist imperial path to the degree that he would require killing rather than to wait out his term and have the next president undo what he had done .

[Derek]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Derek,

I am complete agreement with you that Oswald was not the only one shooting at JFK that day.
If no evidence of the other shooter or the plot has surfaced in all these years it indicates a very professional job and probably the CIA or other secret and tightly knit group.

Why they would do it just seems a mystery to me.

I just cannot believe Kennedy would stray from the anti-socialist imperial path to the degree that he would require killing rather than to wait out his term and have the next president undo what he had done . </div></div>
Oswald didn't do ANY shooting!


As well as being a CIA operative (learned Russian; went to Russia) Oswald was also an FBI informant and was telling the FBI all about the CIA's illegal anti-Castro training camps in Louisiana and Florida.
It 'made sense' from a CIA point-of-view to frame Hoover's favourite snitch for the killing of JFK.

And the next president would have been Bobby!

The Kennedy's are banned from the White House. Look how many murders and attempted murders had to take place before 'order' was restored (in the shape of Nixon).


Then look at what happened to JFK junior's plane.

[R_C]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;James Files claims to be a former assassin working for both the Mafia and the CIA who participated in the assassination along with Johnny Roselli and Charles Nicoletti at the behest of Sam Giancana. Judith Campbell Exner, an alleged girlfriend of President Kennedy was also Sam Giancana's mistress. The Mafia also hated the Kennedys because, as Attorney General, the young and idealistic Robert Kennedy conducted an unprecedented legal assault on organized crime.

Jack Anderson, who knew Kennedy well and had many sources within Organized Crime, concluded that Cuba and Fidel Castro worked with Organized Crime figures to arrange the assassination. In his book &quot;Peace War and Politics,&quot; Anderson said Johnny Roselli gave him extensive details on the plot. Anderson said he was never able to independently confirm Roselli's entire story, but he wrote that many of Roselli's details checked out and he never found one detail that he could refute. Anderson said that whatever role Oswald played in the assassination, he was convinced that there was more than one gunman.&quot;</span></div></div>

[Derek]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;James Files claims to be a former assassin working for both the Mafia and the CIA who participated in the assassination along with Johnny Roselli and Charles Nicoletti at the behest of Sam Giancana. Judith Campbell Exner, an alleged girlfriend of President Kennedy was also Sam Giancana's mistress. The Mafia also hated the Kennedys because, as Attorney General, the young and idealistic Robert Kennedy conducted an unprecedented legal assault on organized crime.

Jack Anderson, who knew Kennedy well and had many sources within Organized Crime, concluded that Cuba and Fidel Castro worked with Organized Crime figures to arrange the assassination. In his book &quot;Peace War and Politics,&quot; Anderson said Johnny Roselli gave him extensive details on the plot. Anderson said he was never able to independently confirm Roselli's entire story, but he wrote that many of Roselli's details checked out and he never found one detail that he could refute. Anderson said that whatever role Oswald played in the assassination, he was convinced that there was more than one gunman.&quot;</span></div></div> </div></div>

We are supposed to believe Oswald did it. But if you think there are too many holes in that suggestion, you're supposed to think maybe the Mafia did it. If you're not sure about the Mafia, then it could have been anti-Castro Cubans.
And if you're still not sure about them, then how about an international communist conspiracy headed by the Russians?

Or a mix of any of the above?

Virtually EVERY possible faction, organisation, gangster and political entity has been blamed for the murder of JFK.

The ONLY people who haven't been blamed are the ones who ordered it.

The Mafia were involved, yes, but at a lower, 'errand boy' level.

Do you honestly believe the Mafia had the power to order the secret service to back away from JFK's limo?

Averill Harriman, David Rockefeller, Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles are some of the people you SHOULD be looking at.

[R_C]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

Well Derek, I'll confess to not knowing much about this subject but you must admit, it takes a lot of balls for you and your brother to try and put the mafia out of business then turn around and screw the Don's mistress. I'm just saying. Many have gone to sleep with the fishes for much less than that.

Anyway, what do you mean by &quot;errand boy level&quot; ?

[Peasie]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

All,

C'mon now. Isn't there a statute of <span style="text-decoration: line-through">regurgitation</span> limitations regarding the JFK conspiracy business?

Nuff recent conspiracies out deh that needs our attention!

[Derek]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well Derek, I'll confess to not knowing much about this subject but you must admit, it takes a lot of balls for you and your brother to try and put the mafia out of business then turn around and screw the Don's mistress. I'm just saying. Many have gone to sleep with the fishes for much less than that.</div></div>
I agree the Mafia hated the Kennedys.

But so too did the CIA, anti-Castro Cubans and above all corporations such as Bell Helicopter, Schlumberger and General Dynamics and bank owners at the First National Bank of Boston and the Federal Reserve, who all stood to lose billions if JFK pulled out of Vietnam and took the printing of money out of private hands (the Fed).



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, what do you mean by &quot;errand boy level&quot; ? </div></div>
How about delivering rifles, arranging safe houses for the shooters, taxiing them out of town and planting evidence for example, like the bullet Jack Ruby left at Parkland Memorial Hospital? (On the WRONG stretcher I might add!)

[Derek]

Re: JFK two-minute piece of film




And let's not forget Ruby's other errand: to shoot Oswald.