HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

[evanovitch]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

i dont disagree that the CIA was complicit in the mad international news fight against Jamaica,,,i am not in agreement that Seaga was a CIA stoooge...his thoughts about nation building were not inspired r directed by the CIA...as to who tawk to who, it is par for the course that any govt will at anytime be in tawks wid the CIA given dat dem dont advertise dat acronym ovah dem office at the embassy...it is usually USAID r some such they hide under...so how do u know wen u talking bout aid to u nation u not talking to legitimate aid workers as opposed to CIA...matter of fact wen u see peace corps workers how many may be CIA plants...the truth comes out years later wen u read di highly blacked out papers wich dont tell much

but Seaga was not a stooge of the CIA in the sense dat stooge connotes...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rollin_Calf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote]In 1989, former Shower Posse member Charles “Little Nut” Miller was charged with drug trafficking but agreed to testify against other gang leaders in order to receive immunity. In his testimony – in which he implicated himself in nine murders - Miller revealed his connection to the JLP as a “political enforcer </div></div>

Do you have transcript?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont disagree that the CIA was complicit in the mad international news fight against Jamaica</div></div>

No one has provided one iota credible proof so far.
My opinion is even if Eddie worked with the CIA to stop the Menlie Terror is good, because he was able stop further destruction in Jamaica.

Anyway I hope Eddie Blinds make a bag of money off his books.

[evanovitch]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont disagree that the CIA was complicit in the mad international news fight against Jamaica</div></div>

No one has provided one iota credible proof so far.
My opinion is even if Eddie worked with the CIA to stop the Menlie Terror is good, because he was able stop further destruction in Jamaica.

Anyway I hope Eddie Blinds make a bag of money off his books. </div></div>

the news that went to the many papers re the salacious headlines and covering had to be at the behest of eida the CIA r the State Dept...eida way, the CIA n State Dept work hand in hand given them farrin ongle directive

[johnnycakes]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

Hey Tuffy,

I know about hiring thugs to look out for one's best interests like those machete wielding guys I hired to protect my house in Jamaica. I hire such people but not Mr.Seaga.

The CIA history is replete with good acts in the world. They are such a nice and humble group that they don't even want the recipients of those good deeds to know that they are the ones with the big hearts and they keep it secret. They are anonymous benefactors.


Right, and the Pope is a Muslim ands snakes can do pushup.

The destabilization of a poor weak country by the empire is a good thing.
Kissinger threatened Manley for being friends with Fidel and for not coming out against Cuban aid to Angola when the racist South Africans invaded that country.

It's the height of the Cold War, the CIA had it's biggest number of employees at the U.S. embassy in Kingston during the trouble but that was purely coincidental.

Seaga was the first head of state to visit newly inaugurated cold warrior Ronald Reagan and three years later Seaga helped the United States in its overthrow/occupation of the government in Grenada.

A very good thing being used and discarded by the superpower.

Look what great shape Jamaica is in now.



.

[evanovitch]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A very good thing being used and discarded by the superpower.

Look what great shape Jamaica is in now.

</div></div>

u do mean Britain wen u refer to being discarded by the superpower...anyone who believe seh we problems juss begin wid Reagan need fi go siddung one side...Britain leff us broke n immediately wid the original Big Stick Doctrine aka helping fruit,bauxite etc companies rape an pillage at will via foreign policey , came long before Reagan

[johnnycakes]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i dont disagree that the CIA was complicit in the mad international news fight against Jamaica,,,i am not in agreement that Seaga was a CIA stoooge...his thoughts about nation building were not inspired r directed by the CIA...as to who tawk to who, it is par for the course that any govt will at anytime be in tawks wid the CIA given dat dem dont advertise dat acronym ovah dem office at the embassy...it is usually USAID r some such they hide under...so how do u know wen u talking bout aid to u nation u not talking to legitimate aid workers as opposed to CIA...matter of fact wen u see peace corps workers how many may be CIA plants...the truth comes out years later wen u read di highly blacked out papers wich dont tell much

but Seaga was not a stooge of the CIA in the sense dat stooge connotes... </div></div>


Evanovitch,

USAID is also a very big CIA hide-out and it is no secret that USAID is a mechanism of U.S imperialism.
I remember very well a story in the Christian Science Monitor back around 1979 that told of a small plane taking off from Opa-Locka airport in southern Florida. That is a well known CIA taking off point, small, quiet and not many observers. The plane was tracked to Montego Bay and it came in and landed and as it did it tossed out a crate of guns onto the end of the unlit airstrip before it taxied up to the gates.
That crate of guns would have been picked up by those opposing Manley had not another plane landing soon after seen the crate in its headlights and reported it.

The CIA was most definitely operating in Jamaica to destabilize the government using the same tactics they had used in Chile in 1973.

It defies belief that Seaga, now reported tied to Cokes, would not have resorted to cooperating and actively working with the CIA since they both had the same intentions.

It would be one thing if Manley was left alone to fail and have the Jamaicans not elect him again but the U.S. was making sure that Manley, already having problems, would be toppled by the added violence and poisoned grain shipments among other things.

They did not trust the Jamaican people to do the job and had to scare them into it as they did to the Nicaraguans a few years later.

The Jamaican people believed the CIA planted rumor that the Manley government was hoarding rice and cooking oil (?) to drive up the price and created a run on those staples that caused store shelves to empty out as people bought many times the amount they normally did . That created a shortage that was exacerbated when two emergency shiploads of grain were found to be poisoned with parathion and some Jamaicans died as a result.


These are not all coincidences and anyone believing they were is doing so in the same manner and with the same credibility as those who to this day claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.


There is no logic at all in claiming that somehow Jamaica ALONE was spared the anti-communist wrath of the United States given the history of the region.

Further, to claim that it didn't happen because a top-secret agency which never admits it does what it does does not admit it did it is, at the least so weak as to be laughable and sad as regards the gullibility or disingenuousness of the claimant.

[johnnycakes]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A very good thing being used and discarded by the superpower.

Look what great shape Jamaica is in now.

</div></div>

u do mean Britain wen u refer to being discarded by the superpower...anyone who believe seh we problems juss begin wid Reagan need fi go siddung one side...Britain leff us broke n immediately wid the original Big Stick Doctrine aka helping fruit,bauxite etc companies rape an pillage at will via foreign policey , came long before Reagan </div></div>


Evanovitch,

Eddie went to all that trouble and helped create the chaotic gun violence that is increasingly plaguing Jamaica, essentially ruining the country's image as the land of smiling, friendly, calypso, Rasta, Bob Marley innocence to one of drug running and gang violence and terror in the streets.
He played stooge in the U.S Grenada invasion, kissed up to Reagan but after Grenada came no payback except perhaps for more odious loans that drove up the huge debt load.
With friends like that, Jamaica needed no enemies.

U.S. aid to Jamaica is minimal as it is all over the Third World. You don't have anything the U.S wants or needs.

Conditions for the Jamaican working class have gotten worse since Seaga/Reagan; since 1980.
Except perhaps for those working in cocaine running, gun smuggling, gang leadership, armed robberies, murders; all major all growth industries

[evanovitch]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

wen u seh help created, who him was in league wid ...at least u not giving him the sole responsibility feet...wen did Seaga enter politics...people going awn like bad man came about wen him set up di housing scheme...people going awn like patronage, wich is politician having dem hench man happen to come about due to Eddie...


as to Grenada it was my lady from Dominica who led the way fi cawl pon di US...Eddie because of his standing as pro-democracy wich the US like to think is their catchcall, he was called on to play a part...a laughable part wen u tink dat JDF had one helicopter wich worked at any given time...but the US has ALWAYS had an eye on Jamaica fi di said reason Britain held us dear to dem during fi dem time...location ,location , location...


condtions for the Jamaican worker has always been bad...at no time has it ever been good...we have never gone to the bargaining table wid the chips in our favour..wedda wid our bauxite , banana , sugar etc...y, because having been left bare we did not have the infrastructure to hangle dese resources on our own

Eddie was the first to say we needed to own our brand Jamaica, hence his Things Jamaica project

as to guns. mek me tell u seh dat T from PNP was well known fi drap by helicopter eena Wareika hIlls fi gi out fi dem share a weapons

see oonoo hear bout di runninga a yaad..but some privy to it pon a level...nutten no get done dat dont discuss pon somebody varendah r rung somebody dining room table....that is how arrogant our leaders r...

so all dis laying of blame at Eddie's feet is foolishness...n I fi one wi neva mek such writing go tru pon yah unchallenged...

di whole lot ha dem good n bad but wen it come to Eddie dat man had more of a Jcan mentality fi identifying as a Jcan dan nuff whe love brandish dem colour as dem Jamaicaness

as to di dope...ah sah...is wich big man did get drap so mek Jcan know seh big runnings was going awn wid dope a yaad...ah sah...oonoo juss a come to di latta day average man smuggling...mi memba wen town was up in uproar to find out who an who was rich ,not due to di bizniz dem had but due to wat dem using said bizniz fi hide...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Tuffy,

I know about hiring thugs to look out for one's best interests like those machete wielding guys I hired to protect my house in Jamaica. I hire such people but not Mr.Seaga.
</div></div>

Here is deal every time I get banned from this Board the rules are either changed or tweaked. The funny thing is I am the victim and my accusers and abusers never get run just I.
The last time some <span style="font-weight: bold">idiot</span> posted a name that I have never used on this Board. Now I see according to the rules you can't do that anymore.

I say that to say this <span style="font-size: 17pt">Johnny Fakes</span>, if you intend to have a <span style="font-weight: bold">discussion</span> with I. Please do so on the <span style="font-weight: bold">facts</span> and on the issue <span style="font-weight: bold">pertinent</span> to the post that you are replying to.....
If you <span style="font-weight: bold">persist </span>in idiocy I am going to tell you bout your parts and I suppose I'll pay for it as is normally the case.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

Now to the issue. To no one in particular, there are huge holes in these discussions about Eddie Blinds + CIA + Jim Brown + Little Nut + Shower.

First off there was no Shower Posse in Jamaica in the 80s.
The Shower Posse was formed in the USA.
Secondly the neither the JLP nor the PNP needed enforcers in the period between 1980 when the JLP came to Power and 1989 when they lost power. Why because almost magically the Political shooting war was over and it was the Police that was killing folks and not PNP vs. JLP.

After 1989 when the Political War briefly resumed the country settled down to a long period of Criminal Gang wars that was less about politics and more about turf. The exception was Spanish Town, East Kingston and later South Side Tel-A-Aviv.

The Shower Posse was drug gang started by a Labourite Supporter who had moved to the USA as a teen. Most of the members were Jamaicans or Caribbean Youth who had moved to the USA in the 70s a mere babies.
Jim Brown who most folks focus on moved to the USA after the JLP victory in the 80s and formed the later recruits of the Shower Posse.

If the Shower Posse ever established itself in Jamaica is was as an import in the 90s and not the way it been argued by most folks.

Which brings I to another flawed argument Eddie Blinds and the CIA. Let's say Eddie Blinds went to the CIA, when and why did this take place? Was it just as soon as Menlie won Elections in 1972? Because as soon as Menlie won his thugs started kicking out white Jamaicans and Chinese out of their homes and businesses.

Was is 1974 when Menlie declared Democratic Socialism? Because by that time Menlie and his gang, had turned and other Jamaicans and we who lived in PNP Garrisons were already armed. Who armed our side?

Was it in 1976 when Menlie locked up the Opposition?
Was it in 1979,when the PNP loves to claim is civil war broke out?

The point is there is caused and effect. I was born in a Comrade Garrison. I don't know one Labourite, but I Know when we got guns. The question is if Eddie Blinds went to the CIA who did Menlie go to and when? Which came first?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

Shower posse existed in Jamaica as early as the 70's.

It only went American after the US Congress cut off funding to the Nicaraguan And Colombian CIA operations.

Then used as the retail branch of the drug trade that was developed as a substitute source of funding.

This is not a novel we can't write the way it suits us.

Neither Did it happen centuries ago in far off places.

It happen within the lifespan of people in close proximity and is well recorded.

Stories of the exploits of the shower posse in The 70's can be found in the archives of the Gleaner and other media organizations That existed then.

They are available for free at the institute of Jamaica for those who only trust online sources when it support their case.

[R_C]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

See here and here.

[Blackstar*]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-style: italic">You don't have anything the U.S wants or needs.</span> </div></div>
There is absolutely no truth in this statement. Off the top of my head: cheap English-speaking labor, market for subsidized US goods, location, bauxite, cheap holidays, cheap retirement, etc.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: HON Edward Seaga book signing at VP Records

It was actually the Norman Manley regime That preceded the JLP That set up the original housing schemes That included tivoli And Remain housing schemes.
Mr Seagate inherited the plan And program That was out in place by the previous PNP government .
The previous PNP government was only in power for about 3 years.
Mr Manley called the referandom and lost so the JLP got in power And carried out tgr housing plans of the previous regime.
You wouldn't know the way the media credit Mr seaga with it to the point whereas it seem like history.