Veteran journalist John Maxwell is dead

[Tuff Gong]

Re: John Mawell died...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong,
There is no argument that Jamaica under Seaga did incrementally better than under Manley. </div></div>

I like the shifting metrics of these arguments. Eddie Blinds only did incrementally well and Menlie had the world against him? Lies.

Micheal destroyed the economy with the terror he and his gang brought on Jamaican entrepreneurs. He then went further and chased out ordinary Jamaicans out of Jamaica.

Eddie had to turn around an economy that lost over 25% of its value (according to what I think are very conservative estimates).
Secondly he attracted totally new Industries to Jamaica, which employed at least 45K persons in one industry.
He did with a very hostile Opposition that immediately started their nightmarish stunts. Menlie and his gang was out in force from day one and in three years Eddie Government was in trouble.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: John Mawell died...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As usual the economic frauds conveniently ignore the oil crisis of the 70s that was mostly responsible for the negative economic growth.</div></div>

Who are these economic frauds?
Menlie could not afford oil but afforded guns, criminal gangs and other organizations to terrorize Jamaicans?

[johnnycakes]

Re: John Mawell died...

Have the lives of Jamaicans improved or gotten worse since independence under the combined &quot;leadership&quot; of the two parties?

Has corruption gotten better or has it worsened.
Have the poverty levels, educational levels, medical, mental and dental care levels improved or worsened.
Has gang activity, gang violence, drug based violence gotten better or worse?

My contention is that no matter which party is in power, neither has the capability or the willingness to improve the lot of the Jamaican people.

We can point fingers at Manley or Seaga all day and we're doing is sidestepping the elephant in the room which is a failed and irreparable electoral and economic system.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: John Mawell died...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My contention is that no matter which party is in power, neither has the capability or the willingness to improve the lot of the Jamaican people. </div></div>

That is your contention...but Jamaica has two dominant Political Parties one or the other will form Governments in the foreseeable future.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: John Mawell died...

The quality of life for the black Jamaican is better in economic terms,educationally with almost universal high school availabillity and easier or more favourable terms of evaluation and certification.
Better housing stock, water,sewer,roads telephone health care.
Crime is worse.
Corruption is less. At least black people can work ascivil servants.
They can access bank loans and they can hold posts as police cheif and head of the military etc.
We have not achieved our potential. And have had setbacks with crime but we have come a long way.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have the lives of Jamaicans improved or gotten worse since independence under the combined &quot;leadership&quot; of the two parties?

Has corruption gotten better or has it worsened.
Have the poverty levels, educational levels, medical, mental and dental care levels improved or worsened.
Has gang activity, gang violence, drug based violence gotten better or worse?

My contention is that no matter which party is in power, neither has the capability or the willingness to improve the lot of the Jamaican people.

We can point fingers at Manley or Seaga all day and we're doing is sidestepping the elephant in the room which is a failed and irreparable electoral and economic system.


</div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: John Mawell died...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My contention is that no matter which party is in power, neither has the capability or the willingness to improve the lot of the Jamaican people. </div></div>

That is your contention...but Jamaica has two dominant Political Parties one or the other will form Governments in the foreseeable future. </div></div>


Tuff Gong,

Yes, the PNP or the JLP will form the same governments they always have.
That is not news.
As in the U.S, the aims of the Jamaican establishment parties are cast in stone and are unchanging and ineffective in changing much because they don't really want the change that would actually do something positive and far reaching.

Reform has been an illusion or has had only an ephemeral effect. Jamaicans are no different than the voters in the USA in jumping from the party in power when it fails to deliver as they all inevitably do and going with the alleged alternative only to be disappointed again and again.

Plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose.

What is needed? How does Jamaica get there?