We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To all,

If you believe in and support free market economies I.e. capitalism, then why are you complaining when someone is doing what is perfectly legal and accepted, investing to make money.</div></div>

Yawn, bunch of damn nonsense!
Capitalism &lt; exploitation.
Not only Libya is not a Capitalist Country.
Many of the African Nations do not consider their economy based on Capitalism.
In any case this is not about Capitalism vs. Communism this is about corrupt and/or inept Governments leaving their economies so poor that they will take any loot they can.

Oligarchy and Feudalism is closer to what is taking place.

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

RichD,
Investing in land and other commodities in foreign countries to make money from those resources is free market capitalism. It doesn't matter if Libya is a socialist Islamic state, what the Libyans are doing is taking advantage of pure capitalism outside of Libya to make money i.e. exploiting poorer countries for their wealth.

I should think the pro-capitalism crowd in these fora would applaud his apparent conversion.

I should also think that as backers of the free market and opposed to socialism they would be able to recognize and understand what capitalism is when it is right in front of them.

Investing money to make money in this manner is as capitalist as you can get.

Were Mali to have a socialist economy this sort of thing would not be permitted as the right to someone to make money would be superseded by the moral right of the people of Mali to the wealth of their own country..

[Tuff Gong]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RichD,
Investing in land and other commodities in foreign countries to make money from those resources is free market capitalism. It doesn't matter if Libya is a socialist Islamic state, what the Libyans are doing is taking advantage of pure capitalism outside of Libya to make money i.e. exploiting poorer countries for their wealth.</div></div>

Did the article say Qaddafi would profit from the investments?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I should think the pro-capitalism crowd in these fora would applaud his apparent conversion.

I should also think that as backers of the free market and opposed to socialism they would be able to recognize and understand what capitalism is when it is right in front of them.</div></div>


There are a number of Posters that post on this Board that I am never able to figure out.
One of them is <span style="font-weight: bold">you</span>!
The intent of <span style="font-weight: bold">your</span> every reply it seems is to trace folks who you think are Free Marketers, while repeating, Ad nauseam your preconceived cookie cutter, idiotic notions.
The facts be damned.

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

Tuff Gong,
Those are ad hominems you are resorting to because you don't like what I posted but apparently don't have anything concrete with which to contest what I said..

Do you happen to have any examples of facts that I got wrong ?.

I'd be glad to discuss their merits or lack thereof with you ad nauseum.

[RichD]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

facts?

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

RichD,

FACT:.
Libya's investment in Mali is capitalism;making money from money and through the exploitation of the poor in this case.

FACT:
None of you choose to go to the source of the things you complain about which is capitalism in the form of neo-colonial exploitation; the lack of economic democracy.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RichD,

FACT:.
Libya's investment in Mali is capitalism;making money from money and through the exploitation of the poor in this case. </div></div>

Did the article say Libya is making a profit from the venture?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FACT:
None of you choose to go to the source of the things you complain about which is capitalism in the form of neo-colonial exploitation; the lack of economic democracy. </div></div>

Yawn......is Capitalism the source of Mali's problems?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff Gong,
Those are ad hominems you are resorting to.... </div></div>

What <span style="font-weight: bold">ad hominems</span> point them out?

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

The intent of your every reply it seems is to trace folks who you think are Free Marketers, while repeating, AD NAUSEAM your preconceived cookie cutter, IDIOTIC
notions.
The facts be damned.

Here you are Tuff Gong,
AD NAUSEAM (sic) means to a sickening degree. Less the reasons why you are nauseated, without dealing with the subject matter, it is an ad hominem.

IDIOTIC in most cases need not be explained as to why it is an ad hominem.

&quot;The facts be damned&quot; may or may not be an ad hominem but as with an ad hominem you did not bother to say what facts you were questioning and in effect labeling my post as unfounded. In context with &quot;idiotic&quot; it may be construed as an ad hominem. .

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

Did the article say Libya is making a profit from the venture?


Tuff Gong,
The article said that they were going to evict the farmers from these working farms.
The Libyans are not there for philanthropical reasons but to grow something they need in a way that either makes or saves them money.


Yawn......is Capitalism the source of Mali's problems? [/quote]

Tuff Gong, Sorry that deep thinking wears you down. I googled this up for you but there are lots of other sites on the subject.

http://www.ruralpovertyportal.org/web/guest/country/home/tags/mali

Rural poverty in Mali

National poverty reduction strategies have reduced the proportion of the country's poor people from 63.8 per cent in 2001 to 47.4 per cent in 2006. Still, Mali is one of the world's poorest countries, ranking 178th out of 182 countries in the United Nations Development Programme's 2009 Human Development Index.

Three forms of poverty affect people in Mali:

poverty of living conditions, defined as INADEQUATE ACCESS TO WATER, EDUCATION, HEALTH CARE AND HOUSING
monetary poverty, CHARACTERIZED BY A LACK OF ASSETS AND INCOME
poverty of potential, characterized by scant access to LAND, EQUIPMENT, CREDIT AND EMPLOYMENT
More than 77 per cent of the country's rural people live below the poverty line. Poverty is widespread in rural Mali, but it does not affect all poor people in the same way. Over the past decade trends have shown a shift in the geographical distribution of poverty.


The rural inhabitants of the Sahelian and Sahelo-Saharan areas are predominantly farmers and agropastoralists who practise dryland subsistence farming to feed their households. They are Mali's poorest people, with the poorest living conditions (nutrition, education and health) and potential (access to land, equipment, credit and employment).

In recent years monetary poverty has increased among rural people in what were once the country's most prosperous areas. These include the so-called cotton belt and the Office du Niger, where the public sector has invested significantly in hydroagricultural development. The increase in monetary poverty is mainly the result of the sharp drop in world cotton prices and the loss of competitivity of locally produced rice against imported rice.

The causes of rural poverty lie in a combination of agroecological, economic and institutional factors. Mali has natural resources and major hydroagricultural potential, but their distribution is uneven and they are not used to full advantage or managed effectively.
The agricultural sector is subject to unexpected changes in climate. Agriculture has suffered significantly because of low rainfall, which affects production levels and deepens the vulnerability of the rural population.

Among the factors that contribute to rural poverty are INADEQUATE AND COSTLY BASIC SOCIAL SERVICES, RURAL ISOLATION, THE COST OF ENERGY and a weak information and communication network.

Source: IFAD


FYI,
Tuff Gong, None of the highlighted things above cause the negative poverty effects in Cuba that they do in Mali because Cuba has a socialist economy and those who are in rural and isolated areas still get what they need because that is how a socialist society does things. They are problems that are directly linked to a capitalist economy and more so in a poorer country where the limited resources HAVE to be equitably distributed to ameliorate the effects of poverty . .

[evanovitch]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

African land is now appealing to outsiders who want to introduce LARGE scale cultivation....the Chinese are already doing it...it is already in the US hence the disappearance of the generational family farms

corperation farming is the new world order venture...big corps r buying up farmland like it a go out a style..

i look forward to wen dem turn dem yeye to the Caribbean islands ...we will ha jobs den juss like our ancestors

no joke...the scale of farming an the amount of land one biznis entity will own wi mek platntations of the past look like bakyaad vegetable garden

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

Evanovitch,
Is there no history or no hope of future large cooperative farms in Jamaica ?
Many small farmers banding together could run a tractor, buy supplies and get all the necessary work done in an efficient way that would be impossible doing it as individuals.
Too much like socialism?

[johnnycakes]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

Distribution of Income or Consumption by Percentage Share: Mali
Lowest 10% 1.8
Lowest 20% 4.6
Second 20% 8.0
Third 20% 11.9
Fourth 20% 19.3
Highest 20% 56.2
Highest 10% 40.4
Survey year: 1994
Note: This information refers to expenditure shares by percentiles of the population and is ranked by per capita expenditure.
SOURCE: 2000 World Development Indicators [CD-ROM].


Read more: Mali Poverty and wealth, Information about Poverty and wealth in Mali http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/e...#ixzz18yKiDiW2

[evanovitch]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Evanovitch,
Is there no history or no hope of future large cooperative farms in Jamaica ?
Many small farmers banding together could run a tractor, buy supplies and get all the necessary work done in an efficient way that would be impossible doing it as individuals.
Too much like socialism?
</div></div>

actually it has been tried..the problem is the patronage system wich is ingrained in our society so those cooperatives invariably have a political undertone to them n u done know how JA n politics go..the boards etc r subject to the patronage system and wid each govament u ha so much changes dat not much get done in the program going from strength to strength..rather they stagnate until dem is juss a shadow of the original intent

[Tuff Gong]

Re: We were told that Qaddafi owns this land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did the article say Libya is making a profit from the venture?


Tuff Gong,
The article said that they were going to evict the farmers from these working farms. </div></div>

Did the article <span style="font-weight: bold">say </span>Libiya was going to <span style="font-weight: bold">make/intend </span>to make a<span style="font-weight: bold"> profit </span>from the venture?