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<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">"The Colchians, Ethiopians and Egyptians have thick lips, broad nose, woolly hair and they are burnt of skin."</span></span> -- Herodotus, 450 BC
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
Yeah, di greek dem seh nuff tings bout di Egyptians/Ethiopians.
Dem neva really hide nutn bout dem race.
Is like wa dis Frenchman (Constantin de Volney) seh in 1787:
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In 1787, a Frenchman who visited Egypt for the first time expressed amazement that the Egyptians – whose civilization was greatly admired in Europe – were not White! "All the Egyptians," wrote Count Constantine de Volney, "have a bloated face, puffed-up eyes, flat nose, thick lips – in a word, the true face of the mulatto. I was tempted to attribute it to the climate, but when I visited the Sphinx, its appearance gave me the key to the riddle. On seeing that head, typically Negro in all its features, I remembered the remarkable passage where Herodotus says:
'As for me, I judge the Colchians to be a colony of the Egyptians because, like them, they are black with woolly hair...' "In other words, the ancient Egyptians were true Negroes of the same type as all native-born Africans. That being so, we can see how their blood, mixed for several centuries with that of the Greeks and Romans, must have lost the intensity of its original color, while retaining nonetheless the imprint of its original mold."
"Just think," de Volney declared incredulously, "that this race of Black men, today our slave and the object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, sciences, and even the use of speech! Just imagine, finally, that it is in the midst of people (i.e., Americans) who call themselves the greatest friends of liberty and humanity that one has approved the most barbarous slavery, and questioned whether Black men have the same kind of intelligence as whites!" </div></div>
More of what Greeks said about Ethiopia (which is black people not just modern Ethiopia).
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Another point, which we need to take note of, is the Black African's reputation for probity in the Graeco-Roman world. Homer (Iliad I.423-4) had laid the foundation for this image when, using the medium of mythology, he described Ethiopians, i.e. Black Africans, as blameless people whom Zeus, accompanied by all the gods, visited for conviviality. That the Black African's probity is not merely a figment of the fertile imagination of a mythographer is proved by the corroborating evidence of other Graeco-Roman writers. Perhaps the most interesting corroboration is Herodotus' account of trade between Carthaginians and Black Africans. This significant account deserves citation in large part. Herodotus says
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The Carthaginians also tell us that they trade with a race of men who live in a part of Libya beyond the Pillars of Heracles (i.e. the straits of Gibraltar--mine). On reaching this country, they unload their goods, arrange them tidily along the beach, and then, returning to their boats, raise a smoke. Seeing the smoke, the natives come down to the beach, place on the ground a certain quantity of gold in exchange for the goods, and go off again to a distance. The Carthaginians then come ashore and take a look at the gold; and if they think it represents a fair price for their wares, they collect it and go away; if, on the other hand, it seems too little, they go back aboard and wait, and the natives come and add to the gold until they are satisfied. There is perfect honesty on both sides; the Carthaginians never touch the gold until it equals in value what they have offered for sale, and the natives never touch the goods until the gold has been taken away.
This is an authentic description of dumb barter or the silent trade, a well-known system of trade in ancient Africa, which was still being practised when Europeans first arrived on the West African littoral. Equally interesting and significant is the evidence of Stobaeus (IV.2.25), who says not only that the houses of Black Africans had no doors, but also that one could leave things in the streets and nobody would steal them. It is interesting to note that such practices persist in certain parts of Black Africa, where there are houses with no doors, fitted with locks, bolts and bars, but mere mats for privacy.
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Since so many of Africa's historical artifcats were stolen or destroyed you sometimes have to look at the records of europeans to discover what Africa was like before rampant colonialism, slavery and racism.
Fortunately, the kind of racism that took hold later which had as its aim the erasure Africans from past and future didn't exist among ancient Greek historians. -
Re: Quote from Herodotus
This is what Vivant Denon saw in 1798 before the Sphinx was defaced.Comment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
the current egyptian antiquities chief- zawi hawass i think his name is---
would rather die before he would admit to the inner african origins of nile valley civilization...
if you watch the history channel or discover & thoise channels, they would also rather die before portraying ancient nile valley civilization as a black african one;
even when dramatizing figures who were were clearly black they will always use so-called caucasian actors;
the world-wide conspiracy still in force---
their bad-mindedness is epicComment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the current egyptian antiquities chief- zawi hawass i think his name is---
would rather die before he would admit to the inner african origins of nile valley civilization...
if you watch the history channel or discover & thoise channels, they would also rather die before portraying ancient nile valley civilization as a black african one;</div></div>
I wanna punch that guy in the mouth. I just sent him this email:
<span style="font-style: italic">Why do you continually deny the fact that the pyramid builders were mainly - not all - black Africans?
The Turk/Caucasian/Arabs didn't arrive in that region until 7th century BC.
OK, maybe the ancient Egyptians weren't as black as the ace of spades, but don't you agree that they were dark enough to would've had to sit at the back of the bus in 1950s Alabama?</span>Comment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
The ancient Egyptians were black because native Africans are black and they were native Africans originally from the area around the upper/middle reaches of the Nile.
Invaders from the North eventually pushed black Africans southward, which is why people now talk of Sub-saharan Africa being black Africa while North Africa is Arab.
Sudan represents modern evidence of this phenomenon as Southern Sudan has just voted to secede from the Arab controlled North after years of civil war.
Remember, the ancient Egyptians were not Muslim, they worshipped animistic gods and revered their ancestors as the more traditionally conservative Africans still do today.
So there has been a tremendous amount of demographic, political and cultural transformation since the heydey of the ancient dynasties.
It seems as if that would be a simple thing to admit, given how obvious it is if your eyes are open.Comment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
Andronian 2,
Thanks for that very informative post .
It helps to clear up some erroneous thinking on the subject.Comment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: andronian2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sudan </div></div>
There are more pyramids in Sudan than there are in Egypt.
Most of them are lopsided and out of shape. Over time, Africans slowly perfected the technique, as they moved north towards Egypt.Comment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
Yeah, it is interesting.
Evidence of continuity with Africa as a whole is present in ancient Egypt in other ways too.
Take, for example, a silly little thing like the headrest:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Ancient Egypt</span>: http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/you...e/headrest.aspx
Also: http://www.carlos.emory.edu/COLLECTI...T/egypt07.html
Zimbabwe: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/2001.759.2
South Africa: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1999.47.101
Asante, West Africa: http://www.genuineafrica.com/Ashanti_headrest.htm
Ethiopia: http://www.africancuriosities.com/detail.asp?ID=43
Somalia: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1979.206.31
One being used in Kenya: http://www.photographersdirect.com/b...imageid=940738
etc.etc.
Almost without fail, native African peoples, past and present, and from anywhere on the continent, make the same kinds of headrest.
Now, Africa is a VAST continent and these groups are, today, separated by thousands of miles and may have been out of contact with each other for centuries.
The retention of cultural identifiers shows me that Black people are essentially one people who spread out over Africa and then diverged in some respects.
Furthermore, there are historical clues that the dispersion wasn't completely voluntary but arose from necessity due to loss of territory.
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Egypt the greatest civilization of all times umatch and unequaled even by todays standard.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the current egyptian antiquities chief- zawi hawass </div></div>
I wanna punch that guy in the mouth. I just sent him this email:
<span style="font-style: italic">Why do you continually deny the fact that the pyramid builders were mainly - not all - black Africans?
The Turk/Caucasian/Arabs didn't arrive in that region until 7th century BC.
OK, maybe the ancient Egyptians weren't as black as the ace of spades, but don't you agree that they were dark enough to would've had to sit at the back of the bus in 1950s Alabama?</span> </div></div>
In fact I was being generous - the Arabs didn't arrive until the 7th century <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">AD</span></span>!
He still hasn't replied.Comment
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Re: Quote from Herodotus
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Egypt the greatest civilization of all times umatch and unequaled even by todays standard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IywJ1...eature=related </div></div>
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Egypt the greatest civilization of all times umatch and unequaled even by todays standard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IywJ1...eature=related </div></div>
The loss of Egypt was the earliest and biggest blow to black civilization.
If you lose your capital and breadbasket...dawg nyam yu suppa.
First trade, then trading posts, trading towns, economic control then military conquest: that's how the Central Asian whites gradually won Egypt.
And the same playbook was used later by Western Europeans in West Africa leading up to the slave trade and the end of West African kingdoms (Benin etc).
I guess the saying is right: if you don't know your history, you're doomed to repeat it.
A di same 'free trade', globalization and odda fawt continue to deny African (black) people control of their own raw materials or internal consumer markets.
Anyway, mi afi watch dem video deh lata wen mi have time.Comment
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The loss of Egypt was the earliest and biggest blow to black civilization.</div></div>
Egypt is not lost, what you see today is here because of Egypt. Without Egypt there is no Greece or Rome.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you lose your capital and breadbasket...dawg nyam yu suppa.
First trade, then trading posts, trading towns, economic control then military conquest: that's how the Central Asian whites gradually won Egypt.
And the same playbook was used later by Western Europeans in West Africa leading up to the slave trade and the end of West African kingdoms (Benin etc).</div></div>
It is the nature of civilization to wax and wane, and for Nations and Peoples to rise and fall.
Military conquest is no indicator of civilization, as we know Rome defeated Greece yet Greece was immensely more civil than Rome.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the saying is right: if you don't know your history, you're doomed to repeat it.
A di same 'free trade', globalization and odda fawt continue to deny African (black) people control of their own raw materials or internal consumer markets.</div></div>
True
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, mi afi watch dem video deh lata wen mi have time.</div></div>
They are great, you will be bowled over.Comment
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The loss of Egypt was the earliest and biggest blow to black civilization.</div></div>
Egypt is not lost, what you see today is here because of Egypt. Without Egypt there is no Greece or Rome.
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It was lost to the native Africans who founded it and it's wealth and knowledge was used to further develop European civilization for which Africans eventually became, ironically, slaves and chattel.
That was what the Frenchman De Volney was reflecting on as he visited the Egypt of the 1700, saw the mixed features of the population of the time and the African features of the more pristine Sphinx.
Likewise, I was reflecting on the broad stroke of history and what lead to Africans, black people, becoming the world's lowest class.
I think that the exclusive control of Egypt by Eurasian peoples was the beginning of that process of decline.
Since here we had the African civilization of greatest antiquity that occupied the most fertile land becoming politically non-African.
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It is the nature of civilization to wax and wane, and for Nations and Peoples to rise and fall.
Military conquest is no indicator of civilization, as we know Rome defeated Greece yet Greece was immensely more civil than Rome.
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In the vast majority of cases a civilization ends because of military conquest.
It is true of the Aztecs, Incas, Ancient Egypt, Greece, Babylon, etc.
So I'd rather be explicit about the obvious than be unecessarily vague and mysterious about it.
Furthermore, after conquest a civilization never waxes, just wanes as it becomes a vassal of some other power.
However, to the victors go the spoils so its resources will be redirected in the interest of the conquerors.
In that sense we can euphemistically say it lives on when only its ghostly works do.
I don't believe military defeat is a sign of inferior civilization (never said that).
However, if you lose militarily, you are almost GUARANTEED eventual inferiority both politically and economically.
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They are great, you will be bowled over.
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Man, once I started listening I couldn't stop.
And when he said he had to conclude I was "aawing" like the audience.
(Mi no sure bout some of the Dogon stuff but other than that...good info)
True African history is a good way to treat those who have AICS (pronounced like 'aches'): Acquired Inferiority Complex Syndrome.Comment
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