Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JC, my problem was not with your passion, or most of what you said.

We all have the right to the way we fee. I just think it was totally unnecessary to refer to a board member as a posterior canal, das all. Di disagreement is good it makes for a interesting an lively discussion but we can disagree without crossing the lines of civility, especially if we are not joking.

Personally, I welcome the diversity around here, even if I may not agree with the point of view. </div></div>


Jkid,

My question would be: what do you call a person who is a pimp for an economic system that kills tens of millions of people including eight million children each year?
And no, I was certainly not joking about anything I said in that censored post.

The moderator was absolutely justified in deleting my post and issuing a warning and in the future I will endeavor to crucify any such enemies of humanity in a more civil and hopefully more effective way.

Come the revolution however, the firing squad is going to be very busy.

[R_C]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

Well well well, speaking of hitting a bit close to home…

My friend, enjoy the peace of mind you will have in your retirement years that was purchased with the labor of those in sweat shops. Just don’t injure yourself as you try to explain away the obvious contradiction between what you do and what you say. Most men and women of conscience struggle with this, far fewer of us choose to self righteously lecture each other about this struggle.

In the meantime, as they say in China, dum tempus habemus, operemur bonum.

dixi

[RichD]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

eh missa calf yuh still sit unda di mango tree?

[R_C]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

mi lurk

[Tony_Royal]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

<span style="font-weight: bold">THE ONLY CURE FOR POVERTY IS WEALTH acquired the old fashion way. Create it!</span>
You continue to blame capitalism while you ignore the FACTS! I will prove that your claims are<span style="font-weight: bold"> NOT</span> factual and that you are inflating numbers. You are utilizing some of the same schemes used by Jessie Jackson, Sharpton, NAACP, et al to misinform the Black community.

The easiest thing to do is complain and continue the blame game. That is why mediocrity reigns supreme, because some people fail to realize that there are requirements in this world. Doctors have to learn chemistry or an Engineer must know math to build a stable bridge! There is no getting around that. However the reality is that there are some people who want to evade hard work, sit and complain expecting government to solve their problems. Socialist blamed everything for their short comings and evaded the facts. You are angry because we are not as outrage as you are and join you as you denounce and complain (without facts) about capitalism.
Three question that can put a hole in any of your arguments are:
1) In comparison to what?
2) At what cost?
3) What hard evidence do you have?

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Myth</span> #1</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Every year in the world tens of millions of the poorest people living in capitalist economies die of starvation and preventable or curable diseases because under capitalism that cannot earn enough money to survive.</span>

You are in correct. Based on data (source below) compiled. Starvation occurs primarily due to government policies and the effects of weather. There is no starvation in the USA nor any capitalist country. A<span style="font-weight: bold">s poor as Jamaica is I NEVER HEARD OF SOMEONE DYING FROM STARVATION. Never!!!</span>
Check the facts sourced below. Starvation occurred in countries where the governments are corrupt, fail to embrace true democracy and free market. CAPITALIST COUNTRIES ARE THE ONES TO PROVIDE AIDE.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2027079.stm

Millions of Chinese (socialist) starved under communist China’s great leap forward. It was not until they embraced Capitalism that their condition changed.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Myth</span> #2</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">In the United States the richest and most successful capitalist state there is a 25% poverty rate, 50 million people without adequate health care, some 37 million who do not know where their next meal is coming from.</span>

Drink the Kool-Aid Johnny! Facts acquired from the CBO data and census figures, put holes in your arguments. The number of uninsured is less that 10 million. Check the CBO and the sourced provided. <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Health care lies</span> </span>http://www.mrc.org/bmi/articles/2007...Americans.html

People are uninsured for various reasons. One of the main reasons for the high cost of health insurance IS GOVERNMENT meddling with the free market. They fail to allow the free market to set the rate, by not allowing interstate insurance competition.
“Today, state regulations have effectively established 50 separate insurance markets, each with its own coverage mandates, requirements, and limits; this fragmentation has, in turn, severely limited the degree to which market forces can exert downward pressure on prices”.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Myth </span># 3</span> THIS WAS VERY FUNNY
<span style="font-weight: bold">Just what alternate universe do you live in that you cannot see these things? Were you born and living in rural Rwanda, you wouldn't be as ignorant as you are. It is by the luck of the draw that you were born into a comfortable life and didn't die at age 3 months with a bloated belly.</span>

Socialist are always jumping to conclusion, that if you defend the free market, you don’t care about the poor , because you were born rich and did not experience poverty and have no understanding about the plights of the poor.

You need to understand that rhetoric is no substitute for reality.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Jonny I know poverty. I grew up in</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">Tavares Gardens</span>. I have seen people killed liked animals on a Safari. <span style="font-weight: bold">We did not have enough food. We had to sell D&amp;G bottles to get money and “Run Boat” I was so poor I could not afford Nice &amp; Nuff, school lunch.</span> We experienced power cut every night. Thank God for the Moon.
I experienced Democratic Socialism. (It sucks). We lived under both Michael Manley’s democratic socialism and Edward Seaga’s liberalization and privatization. The 1980’s were the best of times.
I have heard it all Johnny!! We a sufferers and government nuh care fi &quot;POOR PEOPLE&quot;. Dem nuh care fi bout wi. Mek wi go rob the rich people dem. blah blah.
Able bodied men complaining like a bunch of sissy's, waiting for handouts, while others made a way for themselves.
My Aunt and a group of women decided that they are going to start selling at the entrance of the school. Some doubted while other kept the faith. With the money made from that venture, she was able to engage in another business opportunity that came knocking. She moved on to become an ICI (Higgler) She was able to move out of the ghetto and buy a huge house and own other business.
She did not achieve that as a result of Democratic socialism. She tried that under the Manley Government, as a “Crash Program worker” and achieved nothing!
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">The only way out of poverty is to create wealth. Capitalism provide that opportuni</span>ty.</span>

[jah_yout]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

do you really believe the $#it you write?

both so-called communism AND capitalism are DEAD on arrival...

humanity will have to develop more intelligent models of allocating scarce resources if life as we know it should survive...

if people like you, even with the current so-called global economic crisis, can't see that capitalism as practiced by the so-called first-world nations has become bankrupt then there is nothing left to say

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

[quote=Rollin_Calf]Well well well, speaking of hitting a bit close to home…

My friend, enjoy the peace of mind you will have in your retirement years that was purchased with the labor of those in sweat shops. Just don’t injure yourself as you try to explain away the obvious contradiction between what you do and what you say. Most men and women of conscience struggle with this, far fewer of us choose to self righteously lecture each other about this struggle.

In the meantime, as they say in China, dum tempus habemus, operemur bonum.



Rollin_Calf,
You didn't answer my question as to what we on the left are supposed to do for retirement money if we choose not to participate in the only plans available?

Social Security is funded by those who pay into the fund. It is not unprincipled for a socialist/communist to accept a pension drawn from a community/societal funded pension plan, that is what socialism is.

There are no U.S pension plans that are funded by investments in Cuba.


And if you see a contradiction in what we communists do for pension money how much greater is the contradiction and cognitive dissonance for those who go to church or support capitalism and then say nothing about the evils it perpetrates on the globe.

Taking pension money that may be in part funded by sweatshop profits after we've moved as much money as possible to socially conscious plans is a far cry and far less of moral problem than you have in supporting the system at its base by not raising your voice against its cruelties every chance possible and on top of that criticising those who are trying to do something about that evil.

As said, all that need be done to have evil succeed is to do nothing. To criticize us who would change things and let it be known where the problems lie is to be actively abetting that evil.

I take it as a social responsibility to remind those who do nothing of that fact, and a special delight in twitting the enemies of humanity who support the totalitarianism that is our system.

Yeah sure I could make more friends by saying that y'all aren't so bad but then you go out and in a socially irresponsible way vote for people like Obama who head up the Evil Empire and I just can't be that civil with people who through their willful ignorance are criminally negligent to the point that tens of millions die of that ignorance.

Maybe some people don't have a problem with those who go along with the deaths of tens of millions and can be real good friends with them but I guess I'm just too fussy about things like that.

I see those dying babies in my mind every day of my life. It is what drives me.

But I do realize we don't all have the same priorities.

I didn't know they spoke Latin in China.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you really believe the $#it you write?

both so-called communism AND capitalism are DEAD on arrival...

humanity will have to develop more intelligent models of allocating scarce resources if life as we know it should survive...

if people like you, even with the current so-called global economic crisis, can't see that capitalism as practiced by the so-called first-world nations has become bankrupt then there is nothing left to say </div></div>



jah_yout,

Thank you for your dead-on input in this thread.

The fact is that those like TonyRoyal on the extremist right are truly ignorant of (unaware of) what capitalism or socialism are in reality.

They feed off the buzzwords and bumper sticker pop philosophies of the government and media which substitute simplistic (and erroneous) solutions and theories for reality.

They refuse to read what the left publishes out of fear of finding out that they are out of touch with the truth, that lifelong beliefs are wrong at their base.


When confronted with supporters of the so-called free market just ask them what their solution is to the deaths of tens of millions each year from poverty under capitalism and the solution to having more than a billion people trying to survive on 1-2 dollars a day.

They have no answer to those questions.

They are morally and logically bankrupt.

[RichD]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

JC..could you survive on $26 a day?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JC..could you survive on $26 a day? </div></div>


RichD,
Possibly but that would depend on where I lived, being healthy and not needing medical care, being able to grow or raise a good percentage of my food, the extent of the social safety nets provided by the government.

I would say that I'd be far better off at $26.00 than at $1-2 a day.

It is also easier to put up with hardships if you believe that something better will come at some point. Those in sub-Saharan Africa who struggle to survive at all and see so many around them die and suffer and who have despaired of a better future are the ones that have it the hardest.

[Tony_Royal]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

<span style="font-weight: bold">When confronted with supporters of the so-called free market just ask them what their solution is to the deaths of tens of millions each year from poverty under capitalism and the solution to having more than a billion people trying to survive on 1-2 dollars a day.</span>

Prove it Johnny shows us data of the millions dying under capitalism.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyRoyal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">When confronted with supporters of the so-called free market just ask them what their solution is to the deaths of tens of millions each year from poverty under capitalism and the solution to having more than a billion people trying to survive on 1-2 dollars a day.</span>

Prove it Johnny shows us data of the millions dying under capitalism. </div></div>


TonyRoyal,

The fact that you need to be shown proof of what is universally known to be fact except by those in denial such as all extremists on the right, is evidence of your willful ignorance of facts that contradict the nonsense you spout and believe;

Try this: Google &quot;Deaths due to poverty. look at what comes up and note that every country in which there are deaths due to poverty, those countries have a capitalist or free market economy.in which the people at the top do very well and those at the bottom die and in greater numbers the poorer the country and the greater inequities in income.

Here are a few: There are hundreds just sitting there waiting for you to ignore the facts they contain.

http://home.earthlink.net/~anitaastrologer/famine.htm

http://www.worldconcern.org/statistics/

http://www.wfp.org/hunger/stats

http://cozay.com/

http://www.heartsandminds.org/poverty/hungerfacts.htm

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

TonyRoyal,
You will only read and choose to absorb what already agrees with what you believe regardless of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That is the nature of those on the right. I cannot hope to either begin to counter the crap between your ears nor to convince you that you've been brainwashed to believe what are patent lies.

You have your mind made up and sealed off from all but that which will confirm what you have chosen to believe. Recent studies have shown this to be true of right wingers in which Libertarians are included.

Nonetheless and with the sensation of peeing into the wind I offer these sites as well:

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/lastsunday5.htm

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/standardonline/unpoverty.html

http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Argument:_Capitalism_has_fostered_imperialism,_exploitation,_and_suffering

http://bgoon.blogspot.com/2010/11/world-poverty-ratespoor-reflection-on.html

[Tony_Royal]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

Brother I will carefully analyze all the data you present. I am an open minded individual. However I must tell you that what I have read so far come right back to what has been proven. It&quot;s not capitalism.

Take for example Africa.Poverty in Africa is a a result of Corrupted government. This taken from the same source you presented to me. http://cozay.com/

I will continue to read and get back to you.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Smart phones being made in sweat shops in China

TonyRoyal,

Again you read into things what you want to believe.

A corrupted government is only an accomplice to a capitalist economy in robbing the poor of decent lives.
EVERY country in which there are massive deaths because the people are not getting enough money to survive has a capitalist economy and it doesn't matter if it is an elected and &quot;honest&quot; government because even then those governments support and ENFORCE the same capitalist economies.