Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

[Gen]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

Well if your point is that it is a pejorative term, from colonial times then perhaps you can lead the way in trying to banish the use of it worldwide this way no one will be referred to as "sub Saharan" and "sub continent" and then said people can just return to the never ending fighting over the ever shifting borders and continents and land grabbing.

[andronian2]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

Sub-saharan African is a euphism for 'Black African'...that's what they REALLY want to say.
Everyone knows today's North Africans are ethnically Arab which means they trace their origin to the ARABian peninsula in Asia.

So there are white people living in South Africa that consider themselves native and Arabs living in North Africa that consider themselves native.
Which means you have to invent a category for the black Africans who have called the place home from earliest times...you can't just call them 'Africans' anymore.
Because the others want to classify themselves as African but not black so the naked term 'African' has be made to lose the implication of blackness.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

j_y,

Sub literally means "under"
as in submarine (undersea) subsoil (the soil below the topsoil)
subordinate (under/lower in order)

So sub-Saharan ONLY means under or below the Sahara Desert and as someone else pointed out, India is referred to as the sub-continent as it lies geographically below the main body of Asia.

Sub-Saharan Africans are those who live below the Sahara Desert.
And in the case of those SSAs who live in Libya, it is a term to differentiate them from the native Libyans who are super-Saharans/Arabs, North Africans. Indeed white people who were born in South Africa or Zimbabwe and who went to Libya to work/live would also be called sub-Saharan Africans, would they not?.

It would be difficult to call sub-Saharan Africans "South Africans" as they do call North Africans as that would confuse them with just the people from the country of South Africa.



You could call sub-Saharan Africans people who come from the area south of the Sahara Desert butS

[jah_yout]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

thanks for the (unnecessary) explanation, as i already know what the term 'sub' means;

but you still have not shown me a good example of any other people who are officially referred to as 'sub' anything...or 'eppa' (above) anything either for that matter...

like i said before, people from the asian sub-continent i only see referred to as 'south asians' rather than 'sub-continental asians'....

i will also await your response as far as a people who are the majority on any continent who have the prefix 'sub' (or any other such descriptive adjective) to describe them...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Indeed white people who were born in South Africa or Zimbabwe and who went to Libya to work/live would also be called sub-Saharan Africans, would they not?.</div></div>

they would not-- or at least i have never seen it...it is a euphamism for 'black'...

if you have an example to show me where a person of european descent was ever referred to as a 'sub-saharan african' i would like to see it

[Magician]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">j_y,

Sub literally means &quot;under&quot;</div></div>

Him nuh gree wid dem ting de caw him a Rasta.
So we affi call dem TopSaharan instead.

[jah_yout]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">j_y,

Sub literally means &quot;under&quot;</div></div>

Him nuh gree wid dem ting de caw him a Rasta.
So we affi call dem TopSaharan instead. </div></div>


you think this is about not comprehending what the word 'sub' means?
get real, man...
you can't answer my question so you bring religious beliefs into it?
strange...

i guess this guy must be a rastafarian too;


quote:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Onyeani said the phrase is racist and used with the onset and spread of the HIV/AIDS pandemic in Africa.

“I believe that it is demeaning to Africa because Africa was always Africa during the time of Nkrumah (Kwame). Nobody referred to Africa as ‘sub-Saharan Africa,’ but it was due to the AIDS pandemic. That was when this term started being used to refer to black Africa as against Arab Africa,” he said.</span>Onyeani said he and his group feel “sub-Saharan Africa” is a racist term that should be rejected by all Africans.

“We feel that it’s a racist term, and it is something that Africans should not accept. Right now, there is no other continent that you have sub-anything. You have Europe, you don’t have sub-something Europe; you have America, you don’t have anything sub about (America); you have Asia. But, it’s only the same people who have been referred to as sub-humans that are being referred to as sub-Saharan Africa,” Onyeani said.

He said the campaign is aimed at collecting two-million signatures to present to world leaders and major international organizations asking them to stop referring to Africa as ‘sub-Saharan Africa’.

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/afri...-103260644.html

[Magician]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
you think this is about not comprehending what the word 'sub' means?
</div></div>

No, I said you don't agree with it.

[jah_yout]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Furthermore, the Sahara cuts across countries such as Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad, and Sudan, leaving some parts of them in North Africa and some in sub-Saharan Africa</span>.

Owen 'Alik Shahadah argues that the term sub-Saharan Africa has racist overtones:

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sub-Saharan Africa is a racist byword for &quot;primitive&quot;, a place which has escaped advancement. Hence, we see statements like “no written languages exist in Sub-Saharan Africa.” “Ancient Egypt was not a Sub-Saharan African civilization.” Sub-Sahara serves as an exclusion, which moves, jumps and slides around to suit negative generalization of Africa</span>.[15]

[Magician]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Furthermore, the Sahara cuts across countries such as Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad, and Sudan, leaving some parts of them in North Africa and some in sub-Saharan Africa</span>.
</div></div>

If you ever fly across the Sahara, it will strike you as a giant ocean of sand. Matter of fact in many places, the huge dunes of sand, appear like the waves on the ocean. There are very few people living there, and it forms a natural boundry between the fertile lands on the Mediterranean coast of Africa, and the fertile rest of the continent that starts below it.

Once you grasp the vastness of the Sahara, and realise that it is in reality a great divide, you won't have a problem with the word Sub-Saharan.

[jah_yout]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Furthermore, the Sahara cuts across countries such as Mauritania, Mali, Niger, Chad, and Sudan, leaving some parts of them in North Africa and some in sub-Saharan Africa</span>.
</div></div>

If you ever fly across the Sahara, it will strike you as a giant ocean of sand. Matter of fact in many places, the huge dunes of sand, appear like the waves on the ocean. There are very few people living there, and it forms a natural boundry between the fertile lands on the Mediterranean coast of Africa, and the fertile rest of the continent that starts below it.

Once you grasp the vastness of the Sahara, and realise that it is in reality a great divide, you won't have a problem with the word Sub-Saharan. </div></div>

you are mistaken...
i know how vast the sahara is, but i will continue to have a problem with the term &quot;sub-saharan african&quot;...

i analyze terms...
many of my people don't have a problem with the term n!66er or negro, either but i do, due to deeper analysis...
no one has yet shown me an example of another people described with the word 'sub' in it...

africa is not the only place with a population that is underneath some geographic landmark...yet africa is the only continent they use the term to describe an entire people- who also happen to be the majority of the continent;
i also oppose the term because the 'black' human is indigenous to all of africa- not just africa below the sahara;
arabs, berbers &amp; such were later comers arriving after the desertification of north africa which was previously tropical &amp; inhabited by blacks, as scientific research has shown

[Magician]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no one has yet shown me an example of another people described with the word 'sub' in it...
</div></div>

Subarctic Cultures

Indian Subcontinent Cultures

Subpolar people

[jah_yout]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Magix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no one has yet shown me an example of another people described with the word 'sub' in it...
</div></div>

Subarctic Cultures

Indian Subcontinent Cultures

Subpolar people

</div></div>

again i have never heard indians described as <span style="font-weight: bold">'sub-continental asians</span>' which would be similar to <span style="font-weight: bold">'sub-saharan african'</span>...
or <span style="font-weight: bold">'sub-alp european'</span>...
you can't show me any examples of a major people of a major continent named 'sub' anything...
besides, the term 'sub-continent' is a geographic description rather than a people description-- why don't they ever say 'sub-great lakes americans'...or 'sub-artic canadians'

[Magician]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
again i have never heard indians described as <span style="font-weight: bold">'sub-continental asians</span>' which would be similar to <span style="font-weight: bold">'sub-saharan african'</span>...
or <span style="font-weight: bold">'sub-alp european'</span>...
you can't show me any examples of a major people of a major continent named 'sub' anything...
besides, the term 'sub-continent' is a geographic description rather than a people description-- why don't they ever say 'sub-great lakes americans'...or 'sub-artic canadians'
</div></div>

Again, only cause you never heard Indians described as Sub-continent people doesn't mean it's not done on a regular basis. If you'd travel, you would hear it.

Sub-Saharan is just as geographic a description as Subcontinent.

[jah_yout]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

i'll bet you any money that the term &quot;sub-saharan african&quot;

is a million times more used than &quot;sub-continental asian&quot;...

in fact i rarely if ever saw any print article or broadcast media refer to them as such-
but i hear &amp; see the term &quot;sub-saharan&quot; very commonly...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you'd travel, you would hear it. </div></div>

how do you know the extent of my travels?
i have traveled extensively (although never to asia) and never heard this term to describe those people...far more common is &quot;south asian&quot;...

but let me guess...the people who are doing the naming are european...

is there a sub-continental european people?
certainly there should be some described as &quot;sub-alp europeans&quot;...
but i see no such names...

are the british sub-continental europeans?
after all they are not actually attached to the continent &amp; are below many european countries &amp; landmarks...
would be interesting to know if they ever named themselves with the sub...





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Filmmaker, writer, photographer and music producer Owen 'Alik Shahadah argues that the term is a racist construct. &quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">The notion of some invisible border, which divides the North of Africa from the South, is rooted in racism, which in part assumes that sand is an obstacle for African language and culture. </span>This band of sand hence confines Africans to the bottom of a European-imposed location, which exists neither linguistically [Afro-Asiatic languages], ethnically [Tureg], politically [African Union, Arab league], economically [C.E.N.-S.A.D.] nor physically [Sudan and Chad]. <span style="font-weight: bold">The overemphasis on sand as a defining feature in African history is grossly misleading as cultures, trade, and languages do not stop when they meet geographic deserts.</span> Thus sub-Africa is another divisive vestige of colonial domination which Balkanized Africa.&quot;

[Magician]

Re: Who are Libya's sub-Saharan Africans?

This conversation is going nowhere without...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Click to reveal.. <input type="button" class="form-button" value="Show me!" onclick="toggle_spoiler(this, 'Yikes, my eyes!', 'Show me!')" /></div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div style="display: none;">
Sub-Nassau Mountains wataz!
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