BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

[neutral]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WeNdY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What boggles me is the Natral seems to think he is offering new news in his post. ] </div></div>

Not at all wendy,just showing things in their proper context,in order to look at the &quot;monster&quot; we need to examine how and why he was created,....in any case,you would be surprised at the number of people who still dont know the history between the russian/afghan war and the past relationship between al qaeda and the US resulting from that invasion.

Bin laden aside.....It,s not often me and you disagree on issues,but I hope after we finish our little discussion I am still in the running to be your second babyfather.

[neutral]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

wasn't the Nairobi bombing long before the &quot;war On terror&quot;? </div></div>

No sah,..the 'war on terror&quot; was always there,albeit in a different name,just ask the palestinians about the terror they,ve been experiencing since the formation of the jewish state,supported by the US.

[mountaingal]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral_browning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Yes that is fact,he did turned against the US because he saw what was effectively american expansionism in the middle east,and america,s unstinting support for israel against muslims in palestine and lebanon.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I dont know about any philosophy aimed at destroying and killing americans,</span>I am more familiar with US,s meddling in the middle east that has resuled in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians,and the displacement of thousands more.
There has been more destroying and killing by the Us in Iraq,and afghanistan than any undertakings by bin laden.
</div></div>

the bolded part i think that is the one thing that is commonly attributed to bin Laden by his adherents, and i believe even his own words. so if you say you know nothing about it, it suggests some selective reading on your part - or that you are really not interested in assessing bin Laden's record of criminality and in fact are choosing to overlook it because u are more focussed on what the US has done.

you're apply a double standard.

[Wendy]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bin laden aside.....It,s not often me and you disagree on issues,but I hope after we finish our little discussion I am still in the running to be your second babyfather</div></div>

Natral .. how many years yuh &quot;know mi now ? Yuh know mi noh hold on to disagreements in a one post and harbor ill feelings ova trivial matters. At the end of the day, it's the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">grinding</span> ..oooops di loving mi a defen

But back to di topic ... mi an yuh noh disagree to all dat enoh and that's what I have been trying to point out. All what yuh saying about the US being once allies with these terrorist are known facts... and I totally see the hypocrisy that they espouse. My only argument is, that doesn’t’ mean they should leave Bin Landen to roam and continue to plot against you, me, your child, my family, your family. At the end of the day, Al Queda does not plan an attack on Bush and Cheney etc. They want to kill US citizens. That is why I am not apposed to them being killed before they kill more innocent people. Is eida dem or me and my family.

Believe mi, I see some of your points more clearly than I can see Donald Trump hair line LOL

[neutral]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

the bolded part i think that is the one thing that is commonly attributed to bin Laden by his adherents, and i believe even his own words. so if you say you know nothing about it, it suggests some selective reading on your part - or that you are really not interested in assessing bin Laden's record of criminality and in fact are choosing to overlook it because u are more focussed on what the US has done.

you're apply a double standard.
</div></div>


Ok,let,s agree to disagree on this part,that bin laden was no angel and hated the US,that is not in contention here,he thought the US had too much influence in the middle east,especially in saudi arabia,..and he wished their demise,and may have either overtly or covertly participated in acts aimed at destroying US interests abroad.

However,it,s a very big stretch of the imagination to believe that he had the resources necessary to carry out the 9/11 actrocity.

[Panajar]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

We cannot be intellectually honest unless we are willing to place some of the blame for the circumstances that exist in the middle east squarely at the feet of BRITAIN, THE MOTHER OF ALL EXPLOITERS.There is a propensity to mention America's defense of Israel while completely ignoring the fact that, it was Britain that took the Palestinians land and gave it to the European Jews.

The following piece from the guardian once again prove that Britain is still up to her dirty tricks of exploiting the world resources for her benefit, while calming the moral high ground.

<span style="font-size: 17pt">&quot;In 1996, MI6 illegally funded an &quot;al-Qaida&quot; coup to assassinate Colonel Gaddafi, using as its agent a Libyan military intelligence officer. The attempt manifestly failed, although innocent people were killed in the attempt. This was all hushed up at the time, but now seems rather tame as we watch our defence secretary, Liam Fox, fly out to discuss with his US counterpart, Robert Gates, the overt assassination of Gaddafi using predator drones. State terrorism as the new diplomacy?&quot;</span>.... FULL STORY GUARDIAN

[johnnycakes]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

&quot;My only argument is, that doesn’t’ mean they should leave Bin Landen to roam and continue to plot against you, me, your child, my family, your family. At the end of the day, Al Queda does not plan an attack on Bush and Cheney etc. They want to kill US citizens. That is why I am not apposed to them being killed before they kill more innocent people. Is eida dem or me and my family.&quot;



Wendy,

The United States is a form of democracy. WE vote in the people who create and execute OUR national policies. In a democracy, if you find what your elected representatives are doing is illegal or immoral, you have the right and the DUTY to vote them out and someone moral in.

We, in the United States do not do that. We have always supported presidents and representatives that order or approve the killings of millions of innocents overseas to benefit the wealthy of this country.

U.S. foreign policy is wicked, evil, sinful, unGodly, immoral, illegal.
If you don't or won't see this, you're not dealing with reality and you are GROSSLY misinformed.

Having established that we, the electorate vote in people who time after time commit horrible acts against people overseas and particularly now in all Islamic countries, it can be seen that there are not many innocent voters in the United States.

If we are collectively responsible for what our government does and it is doing some incredibly brutal things (killed 500,000 children in Iraq in the 1990,s).

So when you say that bin Laden was out to kill AMERICANS, &quot;MY FAMILY, YOUR FAMILY &quot; etc you are both completely missing the picture and parroting what our lying leaders tell us Bin Laden was all about.

The man was a religious fanatic and I'll not miss him or any other religious crazy but if you look at the targets of the 9/11 attack, you'll note it was U.S. capitalism, the military and the government that those planes went after. ( Twin Towers, Pentagon and (didn't get there ) the Congress.

The government, the corporate interests and the Pentagon are exactly what drives U.S foreign policy

Overseas Al-Qaeda hit U.S NAVAL ships, U.S embassies etc.

I can't recall any attacks on strictly civilian targets although I know Al Qaeda did kill a lot of people who opposed them.

But there never was a sign that OBL was going after say, the Super Bowl or Fourth of July celebrations.

His targets were deliberate and significant and decidedly NOT your family or my family.

The fact that you believe this to be true shows that you have internalized what the mass media has had to say about OBL and have not had exposure to any reliable information on the subject.


The man was a nut. He was a nut who was willing to kill his enemies but he was not a ranting lunatic. He appeared quite rational but the U.S. government needs to create demons in order to get the public behind the war expenditures and so bin Laden became the man who was going to eat your babies, a bogeyman, a Hitler with bloody fangs.

In fact he was a religious zealot whose career against infidels was a logical reaction to attacks on his religion and his religion's followers over decades when there was little response from the Islamic world to U.S and U.S sponsored atrocities in those countries.

His reaction to U.S criminality is being followed by thousands, millions and not because they're religious crazies, not because they follow Wahabism or bin Laden, not because they hate Americans or your family but BECAUSE OF WHAT THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN DOING TO PEOPLE LIVING IN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD FOR DECADES.

[mountaingal]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral_browning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However,it,s a very big stretch of the imagination to believe that he had the resources necessary to carry out the 9/11 actrocity. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On Sept. 11, 2001, the world learned just how well trained, disciplined and stealthy Mr. bin Laden’s trainees really were. In an act of unimaginable efficiency and planning, several thousand Americans were killed in less than an hour, using the most rudimentary technology. In a videotape released by U.S. authorities, Mr. bin Laden boasted that he had personally calculated the damage that a fuel-laden aircraft could cause to the Twin Towers – and admits that some of the hijackers, though prepared for “martyrdom,” did not know the details of the attacks until they boarded the airplanes.</div></div>


Extreme wealth, extreme religion helped make bin Laden the West’s Enemy No. 1

[johnnycakes]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

N_b:
&quot;However,it,s a very big stretch of the imagination to believe that he had the resources necessary to carry out the 9/11 actrocity.&quot;


Natral,

Not really a great stretch at all. OBL was a very rich man.
I just heard a report a day or so ago that said the 9/11 operations cost Al-Qaeda/OBL just US$500,000.
All they needed were volunteers, flight training, airline schedules, one-way tickets for the guys, maps, and $10.00 worth of box cutters.

So OBL invested $500,000 and so far the U.S has spent some THREE TRILLION dollars reacting to the $500,000 events of 9/11.

Another way to express asymetrical warfare.

OBL said his aim was to financially drain the U.S as they did the Soviets and make U.S aggression impossible/ unaffordable.

It's obvious that he failed because the United States is doing so well economically that Obama has been able to open a few more fronts on the War Against Anyone Islamic and the domestic economy is doing really well.

Really, really, really well.

Really

[Wendy]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

Really?? Really now ?? Hijacking airplanes that civilians travel on and flying them into buildings where civilians works is NOT targeting civilians? How many families out there you think would agree with you that they did not target their families?

Bombing of embassies where civilians work is not targeting civilians?
Oh I get it .. because the Christmas Tree lighting has never been hit, they are off the hook WOW! I have two letters to describe what I just read JC and it is B and S.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can't recall any attacks on strictly civilian targets although I know Al Qaeda did kill a lot of people who opposed them.

But there never was a sign that OBL was going after say, the Super Bowl or Fourth of July celebrations.

His targets were deliberate and significant and decidedly NOT your family or my fami</div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: BaracK KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WeNdY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Really?? Really now ?? Hijacking airplanes that civilians travel on and flying them into buildings where civilians works is NOT targeting civilians? How many families out there you think would agree with you that they did not target their families?

Bombing of embassies where civilians work is not targeting civilians?
Oh I get it .. because a the Christmas Tree lighting has never been hit, they are off the hook WOW! I have two letters to describe what I just read JC and it is B and S.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I can't recall any attacks on strictly civilian targets although I know Al Qaeda did kill a lot of people who opposed them.

But there never was a sign that OBL was going after say, the Super Bowl or Fourth of July celebrations.

His targets were deliberate and significant and decidedly NOT your family or my fami</div></div> </div></div>




Wendy,

Embassies are properties of the governments who occupy them.
They are the agents, the office for the FOREIGN AFFAIRS of that country.
When that country is the imperialist, murderous United States you can expect those U.S GOVERNMENT assets to be attacked.

I'll repeat this for you:

The United States foreign policy which causes retaliatory strikes like 9/11 is driven by corporate/financial interest, created by the U.S government that you voted for, and executed/carried out by the U.S military which you support.

The primary targets of bin Laden/Al-Qaeda have usually been military, U.S Government or in the case of the Twin Towers, the commercial center that drives U.S foreign policy.

HE was NOT after your family or my family. That sort of thinking is akin to the monster under the bed problem kids have.
His beef was with the anti-Islamic U.S foreign policy .


During WWII there were millions of good German citizens that worked for the Nazi cause because they believed that their new leader would bring the country back to its former glory. When Allied bombers struck military or German government facilities THEY killed many many civilians. That is what happens in war since the United States is not about to put all the good targets in neat little exclusively military compounds.

The Pentagon has lots of civilian workers. The State Department has a lot of civilian workers, The people who drive U.S foreign policy are almost ALL civilians but are no less culpable of the criminal U.S foreign policy than are the Congress or Obama.

And is anyone who worked willingly for the Nazi cause any more guilty than are the people who work for the United States foreign policy in supporting and actively working for that criminal enterprise that created and nurtured Osama Bin Laden ?