Why are we so afraid of what America thinks of us?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Why are we so afraid of what America thinks of us?


The guy that wrote the article is a clown.
If the USA Cables did not put the Comrades (especially Sistah P) in such a bad light he would not be writing this article, with this title.

With the article he has accomplished two things whip up anti-USA fervour and slime all Jamaican Politicians without getting to the root cause of the problem.

The USA did not hold such a view of Jamaica in the 60s, he cannot date our problem a 50 year old problem.
USA views on Jamaica changed in the 70s to negative and was repaired in the 80s. The USA again changed its view of Jamaica in the late 80s as the Drug Wars began. Hardly any Government in the region or even the world would escaped the new USA outlook on any Government not a Government of the USA Mainland.

Of course it was made worse by corruption under the Comrade Leadership,who while cozying up to the USA Diplomats systematically destroyed Jamaica.
For all these years Chris Burns was sitting comfortably in the Unkle Sam writing articles in support of the corrupt comrade leadership!

Dude is nothing if not another Jamaican hypocrite who talk against corruption but support the corrupt Comrade Leadership.

[evanovitch]

COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

more dan 50years.....y u tink PNP expelled the 4 Hs....y u tink United Fruit Co got the breaks they did...y u tink dem got our bauxite soooo cheap

to juss say is because PNP get called up in the leaks is disingenuous ....the message is a sound one...we have to rise above the PNP /JLP soundbite reason fi castigate

if coming to the US has not taught us how to measure each argument outside of tribalism den how r we to say we came to better ourselves in one way r the other...

[X]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak


what is the dispora doing within their individual communities to change these view of Jamaica.. ?

[evanovitch]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
what is the dispora doing within their individual communities to change these view of Jamaica.. ? </div></div>

hold dress up road show , open a shop and wear di colours wen time come...odda dan dat, try get the notice of some higher up who wi use u as dem go to guy...soundbites and travel..soundbites an travel...each one want to be the one

how di calypso did go...don is di man in di van...

in sum not a blinking ting cause u done know seh yaadie outside of Toronto look pon dose who a mek di news fi chubble and chat dem like dem no share nationality...dere goes di naybahood sort of ting...well, until dem get stop fi DWB ....

[X]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

exactly..
recently been trying to recruit Jamaicans and/or persone with Jamaican parents to have a more active role in their local civic community.
All me get is &quot;mi dont have the time..&quot; or &quot; bwoy I'm soooo busy !&quot;.. yet thses are the people who you see at the mall sporting the &quot;JAMAICA&quot; t-shirts..

Sometimes, makes me wonder if I'm being careless with my family for depriving them of any time together as I spend so much time making sure that Jamaica is well represented politically in fimi neck of the woods..


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pleXxed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
what is the dispora doing within their individual communities to change these view of Jamaica.. ? </div></div>

hold dress up road show , open a shop and wear di colours wen time come...odda dan dat, try get the notice of some higher up who wi use u as dem go to guy...soundbites and travel..soundbites an travel...each one want to be the one

how di calypso did go...don is di man in di van...

in sum not a blinking ting cause u done know seh yaadie outside of Toronto look pon dose who a mek di news fi chubble and chat dem like dem no share nationality...dere goes di naybahood sort of ting...well, until dem get stop fi DWB .... </div></div>

[johnnycakes]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">more dan 50years.....y u tink PNP expelled the 4 Hs....y u tink United Fruit Co got the breaks they did...y u tink dem got our bauxite soooo cheap

to juss say is because PNP get called up in the leaks is disingenuous ....the message is a sound one...we have to rise above the PNP /JLP soundbite reason fi castigate

if coming to the US has not taught us how to measure each argument outside of tribalism den how r we to say we came to better ourselves in one way r the other...
</div></div>


Well said Evanovitch,

Only the diehards still believe that one party or the other is to blame for the shape of the country. The economic form in use and approved by the United States does not work well in a resource poor country like Jamaica but it is the only economic form Jamaica has been allowed to have since the end of its colonial status.

As in the United States it does not matter which CAPITALIST party is in power in Jamaica but it is helpful to the power structure to have willing fools who will spout that nonsense of the PNP or the JLP being the answer to Jamaica's problems.


They get to stay in power by having enough people believe the fiction that government or a particular party represents the needs of the people.

[Blackstar*]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

Unless you mean something else by &quot;resources&quot;, JA is not poor in resources.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Jamaica, which is relatively small in size, has an attractive amount of non-renewable mineral resources...Jamaica's bauxite total reserves are estimated at two billion tons. More than one billion tons, enough to last 100 years at current rates of production, are easily accessible....</span> Source </div></div>If you are referring to &quot;means of production&quot; as an area where JA is poor that makes more sense (to me anyway).

[evanovitch]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

frankly JC i dont tink the US bothers wid adherents from the political parties...our economics is such that dem dont need politics to tie us...we belong economically to dem as dem belong to China along di said economic line

[Tuff Gong]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovitch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">more dan 50years.....y u tink PNP expelled the 4 Hs....y u tink United Fruit Co got the breaks they did...y u tink dem got our bauxite soooo cheap

to juss say is because PNP get called up in the leaks is disingenuous ....the message is a sound one...we have to rise above the PNP /JLP soundbite reason fi castigate

if coming to the US has not taught us how to measure each argument outside of tribalism den how r we to say we came to better ourselves in one way r the other...
</div></div>

Rising above pro-JLP and PNP argument?
I am not making a Pro-JLP vs. PNP argument.
I am a PNP supporter, I do not support PNP corrupt Leadership, which I know personally.
The USA has not always held this view of Jamaica Government.
During the 70s it was Menlie that put us under the cross hairs of the USA.

During the late 80s he more than anyone moved Jamaica closer to the USA and his corrupt successors has made sure to continue his mission.
Outwardly pretending to rail against the USA while knifing Jamaicans(including their own Party Leadership), in the back.

Looking at all the Cables released so far,the USA opinion is distrustful of every other country, except the USA, based on first its persecution of the war on drugs and then terrorism.


The USA on the evidence of its own Cables will back almost any corrupt leaders that will carry out its dirty work. Omar Davies and Peter Phillips is just two of the USA's Tampons. We have the MOUs and the State of Jamaica's Economy to prove it.

The USA even admit in the Cables that they can bring Portia to heel because due to the state of Jamaica's Economy,she will need loans from anyone willing to give it, to fund her programmes for Jamaica.

They went further by acknowledging that USA Visas is the new gold, this is the new wrinkle they have added.
So they have Peter Phillips, Omar Davies and their informers in their camp aided by Bruised Golding.
This has nothing to do with PNP vs. JLP but the Comrade Leadership has figured very prominently,way more than the JLP.

Bring me the facts on Four Hs, Sugar and Bauxite, I am into facts not conjecture and grand conspiracy theories.

[johnnycakes]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless you mean something else by &quot;resources&quot;, JA is not poor in resources.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">Jamaica, which is relatively small in size, has an attractive amount of non-renewable mineral resources...Jamaica's bauxite total reserves are estimated at two billion tons. More than one billion tons, enough to last 100 years at current rates of production, are easily accessible....</span> Source </div></div>If you are referring to &quot;means of production&quot; as an area where JA is poor that makes more sense (to me anyway). </div></div>


BlackStar,

Perhaps I should have said that Jamaica, because it does not have national control of the bauxite industry loses a lot of money to those doing the mining. Tourism's profits are spread somewhat more but still most money goes to private hands.

Jamaica could be one giant garden (I'll personally buy a big chunk of the mango crop) but there is no substantial structure to promote and export what Jamaica could grow.

And yes Jamaica lacks the industrial infrastructure that most people erroneously think will push Jamaica into the ranks of the European industrial powers.

The time has long passed since any such industrialization was possible in Jamaica.

No country today, least of all Jamaica, can compete with the Asian slave industries.


Private industry, the attempted expansion into capitalism simply is not the way poor countries can escape systemic poverty and the accompanying corruption.

Capitalism once worked and many countries industrialized and prospered while they also preyed upon the Third World for cheap raw materials.

Today capitalism has devolved to oligarchy and even the biggest and most successful of the capitalist countries are in deep economic trouble.

If the biggest and most successful countries can no longer make capitalism work and people are losing jobs, homes, standard of living in these richest countries , what chance does a poor country like Jamaica have where there is less opportunity, less wealth, less infrastructure and a much lower ability to compete in the capitalism globalized economy.?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak


As for fearing the USA only Chris Burns,folks reading his idiotic columns and Jamaicans who have anything to lose fear the USA.
Jamaicans looking to leave Jamaica now go to the USA (since Menlie forever changed that in the 70s), because it easier, more prosperous and easier to get to in numbers. But only Jamaicans who have a choice in the first place (example Gleaner and Observer employees, who are not poor farmers or tradesmen/women) worry about whether they will get a USA visa or not if they say the wrong things.

Other Jamaicans will go anywhere in the world, since the perception is, almost everywhere else is doing better than us. So if suddenly the USA stop granting visas I am pretty sure the line will triple at other Visa outlets!

The Jamaican Press is just like the USA un-Diplomatic Corps support f-rey as long as it looks like it would benefit their goals. Murder,corruption and malfeasant Officials are just part of doing business!

[evanovitch]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

the US has not always held this view of our government is true in the sense they did not feel we had a government to hold a view about....an now dat we look bak wat was it that Manley said that was soo wrong...self-sufficiency, creating links and markets wid countries at our stage of development...being paid equitably for our natural resources...

absent the moronic fear of communism wich we now see the US dont seem to have given their indebtedness to mother communist China, n absent the backbone of politicians n populace alike to make us self sufficient on our own terms, wat was wrong....

Manley said wat Seaga did ...create industries etc to make Jamaica do for itself using the resources we were blessed with...

n TG how do u read the use of `fear`in the article and the exposition of his point...how can u read it and say that the man does not make a point...fi real

[johnnycakes]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

Tuff Gong,
Whether or not Jamaica has anything to fear from the United States would depend on whether Jamaicans are doing anything that could cause the United States to intervene.

U.S. policy dictates that the people can be as miserable as can be ( see Haiti) as long as they are quiet and do nothing to change the existing order.

Jamaicans ever since Manley have been nice and quiet and only kill each other instead of acting on Jamaica's social problems.

This is why the U.S is not interested in anything Jamaica

You have the type of corrupt government and electoral system of which they approve and an exploitable capitalist economy.

No problem.

[jah_yout]

Re: Why are we so afraid of what America thinks of us?

this article a joke business...

the author falls into the same trap as everyone else analyzing jamaica...
the US has had various doctrines for over 150 years stating they will kindly control any small fry nation in the region, thank you very much.
waiting for the politicians to speak of something different in terms of the nation's direction, sadly will not happen...if the US says jump, J-A can only say &quot;how high&quot;?

in terms of britain, j-a already hails her queen as official head of state so it is obvious why she fears (respects) britain...
canada....well-------

unfortunately it will take sacrifice, war, bloodshed, hardship...many more will have to suffer many more will have to die

there is no progress without struggle...scroo wikkileaks-- dem need marcusleaks

[johnnycakes]

Re: COME now TG, US interest in us DOES go bak

&quot;absent the moronic fear of communism wich we now see the US dont seem to have given their indebtedness to mother communist China,&quot;


Evanovitch,

If I may make comment on two very significant points in your statement above:

First, the United States or rather the wealthy and the corporations which depend on the continuation of capitalism for their wealth and power, have a very legitimate fear of &quot;communism&quot; by which I think you mean socialism.

That is why the U.S has maintained an embargo and wages war against Cuba and has done so for 50 years even now when most people are distracted by the so-called and phony &quot;War On Terrorism&quot; and think that all that counter revolution and subversion by the United States that went on post-WWII is over.

Cuba is the only strictly socialist state with at least some concessions to democracy.

China on the other hand, has a mixed economy with the state controlling vital industries and consumer goods being turned over to capitalist enterprises.
The U.S. government loves what the Chinese have done in making it look like capitalism is the way to go. I know there are still people like Rush Limbaugh who calls the Chinese &quot;ChiComs&quot; (Chinese Communists) the old Cold War term that differentiated Mao's people from Chiang Kai-Shek's Nationalist Chinese and who thinks that the Chinese are communists (in philosophy) when all they are is Communists (members of that Party in China) .


China is called Communist China ONLY because it is run by the Chinese COMMUNIST Party. Its economy and society cannot possibly be considered communist as communism is a FUTURE state of humanity and conditions are not right for it at this time in history.

I'd guess that within 50 years we'll see what is called classic communism as a way of life for the world.