Pulling it all together

[R_C]

Can all observable phenomenon be reduced to a single set of physical principles? Many scientist/philosophers have attempted to do this for centuries now.

And here is what Pierre-Simon Laplace, an atheist (and enormously influential scientist) had to say about this:

<span style="font-style: italic">” An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.”</span>

So In order conceptualize what has come to be known as the ‘ultimate ensemble’, Laplace was forced to propose the existence of an all knowing intelligence!

Doesn’t get any better than this.

[MsPeaches]

Re: Pulling it all together


R_C.......

There is something like an impenetrable Wall between Ppl who understand who God is and what All Nature down to the tiniest particle is and Ppl who haven't (yet?) reached that level of Awareness. They can't communicate with each other because they don't understand the same Language, so to speak. What seperates them is like the cement wall of a jail cell, and if one manages by God's grace to escape from the Not Knowing (jail), there comes a freedom in the Cosmic Universal Understanding of real REALITY.

To live one's life without being aware that it is 'God' (ALLAH) who keeps us alive from Moment to Moment (even YOU!) is like wearing one-and-a-half SHOES. One will never walk porperly or live life REALISITICALLY in that position, IMO.

[R_C]

Re: Pulling it all together

MsP, I don't think there needs to be an impenetrable wall, intelligent people can differ intelligently on matters which they don't fully understand. Fundamentalism....of either the scientific or religious flavor..is the problem.

[MsPeaches]

Re: Pulling it all together



R_C mi Breddrin.........

'Fundamentalism' is a convenient epithet (and these days a pejorative one at that) used by people who are on the 'other' side of the 'Wall' from the people who have busted free of their slavery to Science and the belief that it will ultimately explain Life and everything in the Universe to their satisfaction. Perhaps they are more easily satisfied than some of the rest of us, or perhaps they really think that everything is there (here) by sheer coincidence.

Let me tell you a little secret:
I lived quite happily for 13.5 years with a man who is an atheist. He respected my view on Life and I respected his. he was (and still is!) a very nice , kind and generous person. We stayed away from the topic of our individual experience concerning the Cosmos because there was absolutely no meeting ground. It was as though his thinking went just so far and then came to a full stop. (the 'cement wall').

What I am talking about isn't anything like blind belief, trust me! Once I was able to get past my total disbelief in the Day of Judgement - and it wasn't at all easy because I am a very intellectual and logical person! - I 'opened up' and experienced a whole (new to me) huge broad and Cosmic reality to which I had previously been denied access.

But I had to struggle for it, you see. It's not for free

But then, anything in Life that's worthwhile is worth struggling for, don't you think?

Peace!

[R_C]

Re: Pulling it all together

MsP, while fundamentalism may be a convenient term, it is also term that is generally understood and adequately makes the point. As far as it being an epithet, I know many “fundamentalists” who consider this a badge of honor.

Having said that, I do appreciate the brief description of your personal journey into faith but I was trying to take this discussion beyond the anecdotal. Personal experiences you see cannot be proven or refuted one way or another and does bog down our ability to understand ultimate questions about the physicality and origins of the world around us.

So to give an example of what I mean when I say there need not be an impenetrable wall. The thought that the bulk of “everything” is not in a form that can be observed or measured by extant technology is a concept that interests me. This “everything” is not easy to define (obviously) and goes against some aspects of current cosmological orthodoxy (i.e. the big bang theory). Interestingly it was a theologian (Johannes Scotus Eriugena ) whose ‘theory of everything’ presaged less accessible aspects of quantum physics. Theology and quantum physics. Who knew ? No, there need not be an impenetrable wall.

[MsPeaches]

Re: Pulling it all together

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

MsP, while fundamentalism may be a convenient term, it is also term that is<span style="font-weight: bold"> generally understood</span> and adequately makes the point. As far as it being an epithet, I know many “fundamentalists” who consider this a badge of honor.
</div></div>

Sorry, R_C 'Generally understood' is a copout. 'Generally understood' by whom? I probably know more ppl who would take it as a SLUR.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So to give an example of what I mean when I say there<span style="font-weight: bold"> need not be</span> an impenetrable wall</div></div>
I agree that there NEED NOT BE an impenetrable wall, but the fact remains that it is there, yu si.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The thought that the bulk of “everything” is not in a form that can be observed or measured by extant technology is a concept that interests me</div></div>

Well, at least that's a start. But it strikes me that in that case you are a bit like a person who is standing in front of a closed door and curious about what is inside. Perhaps you could (I won't say 'should') figure out how to get the key and OPEN IT.
What interest ME is <span style="font-weight: bold">direct experience</span> because in the final analysis, that is how one gets to <span style="font-weight: bold">perceive</span> exactly what you're talking about.

You seeeee?! We don't understand the same language and until (when and/or if)
you are able to experience just what I'm talking about, we may NEVER do so.
But that's no problem. We're only a WALL apart.