Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

[lonewolf]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes and when my aunt grows a set of testicles she will be my uncle. </div></div>
You will still be her niece! </div></div>

DWL Touche!

[lonewolf]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf
How much is Obama costing the taxpayers as he continues the Iraq and Afghanistan war?

Sorry that was not the question. Did POTUS fund the Zona study? </div></div>


Did you forget that you stated your concern of the cost of sending illegals back?
It's been done in the recent past and I posted historical fact/evidence of proof.


You know the answer to that question, why ask it.
Get direct, tell me what your point is.

[lonewolf]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the Trieste on <span style="font-weight: bold">Capitalism and you conspiratorial opinion on who is trying to destroy it.</span>I never said anything about cheap labour </div></div>

Short memory? Did you not state that I would destroy US capitalism?
Don't poke at the dog if you don't want to get bit.

No, I did. cheap labor is main point of my arguement.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I said driving twelve million folks out of the USA on a humbug will total many local economy, based on the destruction of businesses, the cost to house feed and clothes detainees and the logistics involved.
</div></div>

Nonsense, there will be no destruction of business just as there was no destruction of business before they arrived here illegally. There will be an adjustment and more jobs for legal residents which will help lower unemploymnet and a forced elevation of wages with taxes being paid. Many illegals are paid cash under the table. No paper trail=no support of fed or local system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for so-called cheap labour a large majority of the illegals are Mexicans. <span style="font-weight: bold">Many are artisans and skilled craftsmen </span>and oomen! It like Rocket Scientists in Russia, Doctors in India and Cuba. Thick on the ground, that does not mean they are cheap! </div></div>

Wait a minute, I thought that illegals only took jobs Americans did not want?
So, you have proved my point. <span style="font-weight: bold">They are taking the jobs of skilled American craftsman</span>.

Thank you

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As for so-called cheap labour a large majority of the illegals are Mexicans. <span style="font-weight: bold">Many are artisans and skilled craftsmen </span>and oomen! It like Rocket Scientists in Russia, Doctors in India and Cuba. Thick on the ground, that does not mean they are cheap! </div></div>

Wait a minute, I thought that illegals only took jobs Americans did not want?
So, you have proved my point. <span style="font-weight: bold">They are taking the jobs of skilled American craftsman</span>.

Thank you </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Last first</span>.

My answer was not to the question of, who or what jobs they were taking, it was to the point of whether illegals are skilled workers. As a machinists/engineer/artisan I know for a fact that they are a number of jobs in the USA that American Citizens, either refuses to do or are unable to do, it then falls to whoever is willing.

My dad and many others found their way to the USA to work as skilled masons on buildings in New York and other cities. This has been going on since the late 70s in the USA and even earlier in other countries.

oh point of clarification: my dad came on a work permit!

[andronian2]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

Detaining someone because they 'look' illegal and they can't produce papers on the spot?
Even 1000th generation Americans should realize how ludicrous that proposition is and what a threat that presents to individual liberty.
Such a law should be laughed out of existence as the naked power grab that it is.
The things that Americans are letting slide in the name of xenophobia will surely come back to bite them in the butt.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf
How much is Obama costing the taxpayers as he continues the Iraq and Afghanistan war?

Sorry that was not the question. Did POTUS fund the Zona study? </div></div>


Did you forget that you stated your concern of the cost of sending illegals back?
It's been done in the recent past and I posted historical fact/evidence of proof.


You know the answer to that question, why ask it.
Get direct, tell me what your point is.

</div></div>

You are conflating and/or deliberately mixing up a lot of arguments here.
I asked what was the cost of the <span style="font-weight: bold">Arizona study</span>?
You brought up the <span style="font-weight: bold">President's Wars</span> and I sought to determine <span style="font-weight: bold">the relevance</span> to my question by asking if the <span style="font-weight: bold">POTUS</span> had anything to do with the funding of the Arizona study?

Let's keep it straight!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Nonsense, there will be no destruction of business just as there was no destruction of business before they arrived here illegally. There will be an adjustment and more jobs for legal residents which will help lower unemploymnet and a forced elevation of wages with taxes being paid. Many illegals are paid cash under the table. No paper trail=no support of fed or local system.</div></div>

For one thing as I pointed out beforehand ...twelve million folks did not just part the Red Sea and entered the USA last week......it happened over decades!

The argument about destruction of business does not turn upon what they are doing supposedly doing now to businesses - plus or minus.
My argument is that the simple act of trying to catch, tag and deported 12 million persons will consume all or the efforts of almost every adult citizen of the USA. Not to mention wreck State and Federal budget.
Logistically it will be impossible!.

Both pro-Immigration and anti-Immigration camps are dead wrong in this debate.
The pro-Immigration defenders need to say two things: Amnesty, Amnesty, Amnesty and we will agree to deport undesirables.

Anti-Immigration need to be made to understand the full magnitude of the problem, vis-à-vis cost and logistics. The only way to do so is for pro-Immigration to form a consensus opinion based on facts not emotions and dishonesty.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonrwolf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Nonsense, there will be no destruction of business just as there was no destruction of business before they arrived here illegally. There will be an adjustment and more jobs for legal residents which will help lower unemploymnet and a forced elevation of wages with taxes being paid. Many illegals are paid cash under the table. No paper trail=no support of fed or local system.</div></div>

For one thing as I pointed out beforehand ...twelve million folks did not just part the Red Sea and entered the USA last week......it happened over decades!

The argument about destruction of business does not turn upon what they are doing supposedly doing now to businesses - plus or minus.
My argument is that the simple act of trying to catch, tag and deported 12 million persons will consume all or the efforts of almost every adult citizen of the USA. Not to mention wreck State and Federal budget.
Logistically it will be impossible!.

Both pro-Immigration and anti-Immigration camps are dead wrong in this debate.
The pro-Immigration defenders need to say two things: Amnesty, Amnesty, Amnesty and we will agree to deport undesirables.

Anti-Immigration need to be made to understand the full magnitude of the problem, vis-à-vis cost and logistics. The only way to do so is for pro-Immigration to form a consensus opinion based on facts not emotions and dishonesty. </div></div>


Tuff Gong,
I agree with what you said above. Any attempt at deporting the 12 million or so illegals would be as big a waste of time and money as the War on Drugs.

Both problems are similar in that for every dealer or illegal arrested and eliminated there are two or more to replace them because they are dealing with the SYMPTOMS of the problems and not the cause.

As for immigrants destroying businesses, it is worth noting that there is a worldwide recession going on due in large part to globalization in which the corporations are moving their manufacturing jobs out of the higher paid worker countries to the slave-wage countries. The loss of high paying jobs for which the replacement jobs amount to only 25% of the need for jobs and are at much lower pay is what is the problem.

Legal and illegal immigrants willing to work at lower pay than will U.S citizens may make the situation worse but it would be no problem if capitalism were in serious decline worldwide.

As usual the blue collar workers who are the ones to suffer the most are given the illegals to blame. Right wing radio hosts are all about jumping on the illegals and never touching the collapse of capitalism as the problem.

This is only an issue because the U.S public is magnificently ignorant of REAL cause and effect

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Alabama passes 'toughest illegal immigration law

Easier Route to Green Card to Be Proposed for Some

By JULIA PRESTON
Published: January 6, 2012

Obama administration officials announced on Friday that they will propose a fix to a notorious snag in immigration law that will spare hundreds of thousands of American citizens from prolonged separations from immigrant spouses and children.

The change that immigration officials are offering would benefit United States citizens who are married to or have children who are illegal immigrants. It would correct a bureaucratic Catch-22 that those Americans now confront when their spouses or children apply to become legal permanent residents.