Blood for Oil.....Again

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again, as I said before, I was not aware of any Cuban &quot;combat troops&quot; in Jamaica in the seventies but members of Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces were there, officially as a part of the staff at their Embassy....in some instances they were counterintelligence operatives. Others were involved in continuing the training that the brigadistas had had after they returned home from Cuba. </div></div>


And I would guess this was during the Manley years after which Mr Seaga kicked out the Cubans as ordered by Reagan.?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Troops in Jamaica with guns, troops in Jamaica without guns, whatever, I believe Mr Blum is an unbiased recorder of events with no vested interest (maybe apart from selling his book).

He was also in a position to know what was really going on. </div></div>


True Derek,
He still seems to have an in on a lot of information that the United States government would rather not have out there.

His series of &quot;Anti-Empire Reports&quot; are real eye openers and he continues to put out new books.
Offhand, besides his own websites I only know that he is published by ZNET.

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And I would guess this was during the Manley years after which Mr Seaga kicked out the Cubans as ordered by Reagan.? </div></div>

Yes.

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..an unbiased recorder of events </div></div>

No such animal exists. Every writer, broadcaster, blogger, journalist, editor and publisher on earth has an agenda.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..an unbiased recorder of events </div></div>

No such animal exists. Every writer, broadcaster, blogger, journalist, editor and publisher on earth has an agenda. </div></div>


R_C,

I also think so.

I think what Derek meant was that what Blum presents is a much truer version of the events than is written elsewhere whether it be official government, corporate media outlets or school texts.

His agenda (IMO) is to expose the truth of these events and to simultaneously expose the official versions as the lies that they so often are.

The government and corporate media have an agenda that consists of hiding the true nature of U.S foreign policy and fooling the public into accepting their acceptable lies and euphemisms (ex: &quot;policeman of the world&quot


The mistake most people make is in thinking (as the government /corporate media would have them) that both left and right views are extreme and incorrect and that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

This is common thinking and it is the reason most people are badly misinformed (really disinformed) as to U.S policies.

The truth definitely does have a left bias in this instance. (Blum vs U.S. Gov't/corporate media)

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

Indeed, agents from multiple agencies and institutions of the US government were also there in numbers not heretofore seen at that time. But they weren't the only ones. And that Blum would mischaracterize the nature and extent of the Cuban presence when it was at its peak in Jamaica should put those who read his take on what happened during that period of time on guard.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Indeed, agents from multiple agencies and institutions of the US government were also there in numbers not heretofore seen at that time. But they weren't the only ones. And that Blum would mischaracterize the nature and extent of the Cuban presence when it was at its peak in Jamaica should put those who read his take on what happened during that period of time on guard.

</div></div>


R_C,

Can you recommend a particular book website or article that covers Cuban troops in Jamaica from a perspective you think is fair. ?

I'd like to get a look at the difference in how Blum has presented the history and what you have that has you casting doubt on Blum's version.

Thanks

[RichD]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Indeed, agents from multiple agencies and institutions of the US government were also there in numbers not heretofore seen at that time. But they weren't the only ones. And that Blum would mischaracterize the nature and extent of the Cuban presence when it was at its peak in Jamaica should put those who read his take on what happened during that period of time on guard.

</div></div>


R_C,

Can you recommend a particular book website or article that covers Cuban troops in Jamaica from a perspective you think is fair. ?

I'd like to get a look at the difference in how Blum has presented the history and what you have that has you casting doubt on Blum's version.

Thanks </div></div>

yuh nuh hear di man sey he was there

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

Sorry. I have no books or internet links for you. My familiarity with this is based upon personal knowledge of events that were taking place at the time.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry. I have no books or internet links for you. My familiarity with this is based upon personal knowledge of events that were taking place at the time. </div></div>


I spent a good half hour Googling Cuban troops in Jamaica 1976 and found relatively little except that Kissinger and the CIA were already making attempts at destabilizing Jamaica which would certainly justify Manley reaching for help from friendlier quarters.

A few websites were just U.S propaganda and not of much factual use.
I'll have to work on this research but in the meantime in your view what was the purpose of Cuban troops in Jamaica. ?

[R_C]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

I've already answered this question.

[Derek]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..an unbiased recorder of events </div></div>

No such animal exists. Every writer, broadcaster, blogger, journalist, editor and publisher on earth has an agenda. </div></div>


Sorry but I can't think of any reason why Mr Blum would be pro or anti Jamaica.

<span style="font-size: 8pt">(Agenda? Like I said, maybe selling some books and making a bit of change to stuff in his trousers.)</span>


Can you give me a reason why Blum would be biased?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..an unbiased recorder of events </div></div>

No such animal exists. Every writer, broadcaster, blogger, journalist, editor and publisher on earth has an agenda. </div></div>


Sorry but I can't think of any reason why Mr Blum would be pro or anti Jamaica.

<span style="font-size: 8pt">(Agenda? Like I said, maybe selling some books and making a bit of change to stuff in his trousers.)</span>


Can you give me a reason why Blum would be biased? </div></div>



Derek,
Anyone who disagrees with Blum's conclusions would think him biased
and find fault with his work when his books like &quot;Killing Hope&quot; are praised by the likes of Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Helen Caldicott .
John Stockwell (another CIA man gone moral) calls &quot;Killing Hope&quot; &quot;The single most useful summary of CIA history&quot;


When you put his version of history up against that which is taught in the public schools, expressed by the government and the corporate media and generally accepted by a very ignorant public , you'd have to ignore most of what he has written and which is corroborated as the truer version by subsequent events to call him biased inasmuch as that word is used in a negative sense to mean an &quot;unfair&quot; bending of the information.

Anyone who's read his books knows that Chomsky et al are quite correct in their assessments .

The truth does has a left bias.

Again, if anyone has something better than Blum on U.S interventions post WWII, bring it on.

[Derek]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R_C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">..an unbiased recorder of events </div></div>

No such animal exists. Every writer, broadcaster, blogger, journalist, editor and publisher on earth has an agenda. </div></div>


Sorry but I can't think of any reason why Mr Blum would be pro or anti Jamaica.

<span style="font-size: 8pt">(Agenda? Like I said, maybe selling some books and making a bit of change to stuff in his trousers.)</span>


Can you give me a reason why Blum would be biased? </div></div>



Derek,
Anyone who disagrees with Blum's conclusions would think him biased
and find fault with his work when his books like &quot;Killing Hope&quot; are praised by the likes of Noam Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Helen Caldicott .
John Stockwell (another CIA man gone moral) calls &quot;Killing Hope&quot; &quot;The single most useful summary of CIA history&quot;


When you put his version of history up against that which is taught in the public schools, expressed by the government and the corporate media and generally accepted by a very ignorant public , you'd have to ignore most of what he has written and which is corroborated as the truer version by subsequent events to call him biased inasmuch as that word is used in a negative sense to mean an &quot;unfair&quot; bending of the information.

Anyone who's read his books knows that Chomsky et al are quite correct in their assessments .

The truth does has a left bias.

Again, if anyone has something better than Blum on U.S interventions post WWII, bring it on.


</div></div>

Read my signature. (Not the Max Romeo bit!)
I'm going to read the book again.

[Wahalla]

Re: Blood for Oil.....Again

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Derek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=R_C]<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gaddafi “threatened to dramatically reduce Libya’s oil production and/or expel U.S. oil and gas companies,” the cable said. </div></div>

Iran 1953, Iraq 2003, Libya 2011.

Didn't Iran and Iraq get their arse buss for more or less the same things?

</div></div>

in 53....the Anglo Persian was the sole producer of oil... and operated a state within a state. They gave teh Iranian goverment 14 3/4% of their income... nobte as part of the Venezuela- Jamaica exploration agreement signed in 2008 I beleive Jamaica only gets 13 3/4 % royalty from PDVSA....

in 2011... the multiple IOCs are subject to Libyan Petroleum Laws which are comprehensive.. The produce at most they produce as their own 30% of libyan oil as their own.... This is subject to Royalty payments which I beleive is 10% plus they are taxed at a flat rate of 25 % if mememory serves me correctly as are all invoices, plus 3 1/2% stamp duty, a flat rate enviromental tax....Newer production sharing agreements for BP, shell, new Conoco Phillips, Gazprom TPAO would be 11% of any fluids expoted again subject to tax..

That if applied is a fair share of natural resources.....